All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 9

[hopefuldreamer]

I'm with Rockstar here. I don't see how side characters like Supergirl and Robin will in any way make a better movie.

[HighFivingMF]

Well, one of the more popular Superman/Batman stories is about Darkseid and the origin of Supergirl. The earliest team-ups between the two also featured Robin. It's not like their inclusion is unheard of.

[hopefuldreamer]

I never said anything about the use of side characters being unheard of

I just don't think it'd improve the first live action film attempt at showing these characters together, if you throw more ingredients into the mix than is neccesary.

Batman and Superman would make an incredible movie all on their own.

And FYI, I would NOT want to see a World's Finest with Darkseid as the villain...

[Blue Sugar]

Originally Posted by herolee10

1. From what I saw, SR was panned because it followed Donner's formula almost entirely, there was nothing really original in the film, except for Superman's disappearance and the existence of a child between him and Lois that stood out from what Donner established with the characters provided.

Now, TDK had a usage of using some similar thematic elements that was present in Burton's first Batman Film: Harvey Dent and Joker inside of the film, Joker being responsible for murdering some close to Bruce, Joker's reign of Terror on Gotham's city, etc. Plus, both Joker and Two Face had been done as well, but the trick here was that Nolan presented a new side/layer to those characters and to the story itself. Singer did not do that.

2. Just because Snyder is using Zod and Faora, it doesn't mean that they'll be the same versions that we saw in SII; and while the essence of Superman's story is mostly known to a good amount of people, it's all about telling it in a way that hasn't been shown to the General Audience imho. Honestly, given that the Superman franchise desperately needs for the GA to show favor towards Superman for this film to be a success, it needs to reestablish as to why he's considered the great hero that he is; go back to the basics if you will..instead of just assuming that everyone knows the basic plot formula.

Great post.

[Llama_Shepherd]

I wouldn't want to see Robin in the first World's Finest film, but I'd like to see Superman scold Batman over Jason.

Seeing the characters themselves in a large role won't benefit the first film really, unless it is to show the juxtaposition of Superman and Batman. Namely that Batman is the most anti-social hero, but has the most sidekicks and partners, and that Superman is the friendliest, but is more often depicted as alone than Batman.

[ChickenScratch]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Well I meant War in a sense where it's just no longer a hero versus a singular villain and their proverbial master evil plan; like Spiderman 1 and 2 for example.

Suree, but superhero fiction is about conflict. Besides, as characters themselves they work well in war movies with all their skill and powers.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

I never said anything about the use of side characters being unheard of

I just don't think it'd improve the first live action film attempt at showing these characters together, if you throw more ingredients into the mix than is neccesary.

Batman and Superman would make an incredible movie all on their own.

And FYI, I would NOT want to see a World's Finest with Darkseid as the villain...

Agreed. Darkseid is not who I would want to use for a World's Finest film (Trinity, maybe). Villains such as Lex Luthor, The Joker and Vandal Savage make more sense. I would save Brainiac and Doomsday for the MoS sequels and Darkseid for a JL adaptation.

[Marvin]

Worlds finest with Nolans Batman would fall short of many expectations imo. It's Nolans plotting, tone(and one villain in particular) that sell that series. His Batman as a character isn't all that exceptional an individual and when it comes to his team up adventures, this is very much key.

as for MOS
Like the Batman series, the first villain should be tied to the characters origins. The second should be his most recognizable, and his third should be of his most dangerous and perhaps not so well known.

In this model, the first story is designed to get interest, start things off and win over fans. The second is to revel in the hype and put fourth the more comic book elements, the third is to end the series with a bang, also it takes a famous adaptation and adds a twist..among other things. If they are indeed doing something similar to this I would agree that Kryptonians are an excellent start. The second film would have to be someone very much recognizable(perhaps from an earlier interpretation). The magic of that is that the audience gets a trailer with a familiar character completely re-imagined and that can be very strong. Lastly the last film promises defeat and because it's the end, people believe it.

1. Zod
2. Lex/Brainiac
3. Darksied(leading into JLA cliff hanger)
4. Doomsday

[Blue Sugar]

Yep Nolan's Batman wouldn't work well in a World's Finest, that's not the sole reason why we won't see him in one though. TDKR is the last story of Nolan's Batman.

And I want a great Superman solo film-series more than a World's Finest. So if they do one I hope it's independent from Snyder's Superman too.

Just create a new Superman and a new Batman for a WF or Trinity movie imo. I definitely think it can work with the right strategy.

[Mike22]

If the WB were smart they'd put in a lot of money in marketing MOS so that people at least are aware that this isn't connected in any way to that last atrocity of a movie and that this one is superior in ever way. They NEED this to be a success. And hopefully when it is, we'll get a sequel real quick, followed by the Batman reboot. The batman of the reboot needs to be a lot more like in the comics and dealing with more supernatural villains.
If all goes well and the reboot is a success, THAT'S when they announce a Worlds finest movie. Going straight to the Justice league is a mistake. They should start with Superman and Batman, and I can't imagine this not being a huge success, and when it hopefully is, that's when a JL movie can finally take place.
I know there are a lot of if's, but they really need to make sure to get the scripts right so they don't have another GL on their hands before they start production on any of their future movies.

[mclay18]

Warner Bros no longer has a movie in place for November 2012. They just moved Gravity off its original November 21, 2012 date for an undetermined 2013 date.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/schedul...weeks=5&p=.htm

Is this the opening WB wants for Man of Steel?

[Mr. Thing]

Originally Posted by mclay18

Warner Bros no longer has a movie in place for November 2012. They just moved Gravity off its original November 21, 2012 date for an undetermined 2013 date.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/schedul...weeks=5&p=.htm

Is this the opening WB wants for Man of Steel?

I'd love for them to spring a surprise like this and just blitz the promotion from July onwards.

Don't see it happening though.

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by Mr. Thing

I'd love for them to spring a surprise like this and just blitz the promotion from July onwards.

It's not like a last-minute date change like Fox did with Rise of the Apes last year. Originally dated it for June 24, 2011, pushed it to a pre-Thanksgiving November spot, and then moved it up to August a few months prior to release.

And that film performed very well. Granted, this is apples and oranges... but WB needs a November title before The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey owns December. And if what Show said a few months back, MOS will have been finished by the end of the year.

Unless Argo overperforms the month prior, WB needs a title. Of course, they could do for Gravity like they did for Gangster Squad -- move it off the 2012 calendar, release a trailer to judge the buzz, and restore its original release date.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by mclay18

Warner Bros no longer has a movie in place for November 2012. They just moved Gravity off its original November 21, 2012 date for an undetermined 2013 date.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/schedul...weeks=5&p=.htm

Is this the opening WB wants for Man of Steel?

Doubtful; I mean even with at open in November, it's still too close to The Hobbit, and I don't think that they'd want for MOS to go up against one of their own films and lose BO revenue because of that.

Also, that's ONE MONTH BEFORE MOS's original release date, thus that would really FORCE production to move up even FASTER than before.

[shauner111]

nahhh they would have to go ape**** and release the teaser with Prometheus, and a new one every couple of months just to get people interested. Not gonna happen. It can't be running in cinemas while The Hobbit, Django Unchained, Skyfall, etc are all running. Next summer is the summer of Superman, no doubt.

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Doubtful; I mean even with at open in November, it's still too close to The Hobbit, and I don't think that they'd want for MOS to go up against one of their own films and lose BO revenue because of that.

Also, that's ONE MONTH BEFORE MOS's original release date, thus that would really FORCE production to move up even FASTER than before.

They're not rushing anything. They actually started post-production CGI work during shooting, turning over edited scenes over to the visual effects houses for work. Add in the usual 6-8 months of post-production work (plus a six-month shoot) -- they will have had a year's worth of post-production.

At this rate, the movie will be in the can by September or October. Ask Jamie or Show if you doubt me.

[XEdge]

speaking of Supergirl, I don't want Kara to be in MOS, but I'd love for her to show up in either the 2nd or 3rd film. I wouldn't mind if they include Kara as part of the MOS Superman mythos.

although, it would be nice if either Kara or the Zor-El family name was mentioned or referenced in MOS. like, maybe Jor-El talks about his brother to Lara, or mentions his niece or something.......

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by mclay18

They're not rushing anything. They actually started post-production CGI work during shooting, turning over edited scenes over to the visual effects houses for work. Add in the usual 6-8 months of post-production work (plus a six-month shoot) -- they will have had a year's worth of post-production.

At this rate, the movie will be in the can by September or October. Ask Jamie or Show if you doubt me.

That may be (for the record, I never doubted you regarding that.), but like others have mentioned, even if their schedule wasn't a issue, there's just too much competition going into that now open slot for November 12; unless Warner bros really feels THAT CONFIDENT in MOS.

[DoomsdayApex]

Gill has stated previously that WB is very pleased with MoS. Now whether or not WB would be THAT confident in bumping up the film almost an entire year ahead of schedule, that reminds to be seen but I doubt we'll see MoS in November.

[XEdge]

Superman/MOS just feels more like it belongs as a big-budget Summer movie blockbuster, moreso than an end of the year Fall/Winter movie.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by XEdge

Superman/MOS just feels more like it belongs as a big-budget Summer movie blockbuster, moreso than an end of the year Fall/Winter movie.

Thor 2 is being released in the Fall/Winter. Perhaps it'll be a trend now.

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by herolee10

but like others have mentioned, even if their schedule wasn't a issue, there's just too much competition going into that now open slot for November 12; unless Warner bros really feels THAT CONFIDENT in MOS.

It's November 21st.

Twilight: Breaking Dawn 2 will have run out of steam after the first five days. Skyfall will have been out for a week and a half, and it's different enough from MOS that they can co-exist (think Sherlock Holmes 2 and MI4 from last year).

Plus, WB will need a November title either way. They can push back a title, restore Gravity to its original spot, or move up a finished title initially scheduled for 2013.

And if MOS is good enough, it'll get WB some traction before unleashing The Hobbit a month after MOS hits theaters.

[Marvin]

WB's big summer film from 2013 moves to a late November release?

I surely hope not...for superman's sake. It doesn't need yet another excuse to under perform.

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by Marvin

WB's big summer film from 2013 moves to a late November release?

I surely hope not...for superman's sake. It doesn't need yet another excuse to under perform.

A lot of big-budget blockbusters tend to have good to stellar pre-Thanksgiving launches. If they're good enough, they have staying power throughout December as well.

If you look at it that way, the June 2013 spot doesn't have that luxury. If the summer 2013 spot wasn't so crowded, I'd say otherwise.

[hopefuldreamer]

I hate myself for saying it (because a part of me just wants the movie out NOW! ), but I don't want it to move at all.

I think it's perfect exactly where it is.

This year has The Avengers, TASM and TDKR. Next year will have Iron Man 3, The Wolverine and MOS.

That just feels right. It feels like a good balance.