All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 9

[I Am The Knight]

I doubt Gosling would want to play Steve Trevor, even for Refn.

[Llama_Shepherd]

Refn is still attached to direct and Gosling is still attached to star in Logan's Run, but are also fulfilling both of those respective duties on the film Only God Forgives, which I believe is still filming.

I think Refn's Wonder Woman has a better chance of moving forward than any other film. They have all of Joss Whedon's work gathering dust, as well as a director eager to make it. I don't expect it soon, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were released within half a decade.

[MrGreen]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

Refn is still attached to direct and Gosling is still attached to star in Logan's Run, but are also fulfilling both of those respective duties on the film Only God Forgives, which I believe is still filming.

I think Refn's Wonder Woman has a better chance of moving forward than any other film. They have all of Joss Whedon's work gathering dust, as well as a director eager to make it. I don't expect it soon, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were released within half a decade.

After Avengers I have no doubt they're re-visiting Joss' work.
I just want a well done Justice League film before the superhero movies genre dies

[The Guard]

August? Prove it.

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/...-solid-script/

Robinov's statements are from March 2011..... before Green Lantern bombed.

And the information I was referring to and posted is from August 2011…after the film was released and had failed.

He mentioned "The Flash," but look at his statements in context:

The context seems to be that he had worked on the project and that WB was looking for a director who can make it work.

The Flash is stuck in development hell currently.

A lot of films have been. Development hell is still technically development. It’s not in any more development hell than Superman, Batman, Green Lantern and Watchmen projects and plenty of projects at other studios were at one time or another.

If you're referring to the Robert Smigel script with Jack Black, I don't think anything from that made it into the Green/Guggenheim project. Man of Steel and Batman Begins have their roots in years of drafts and revisions as well, under many different creative teams over many, many years before Warners settled on something they could work with.

I could have sworn the conversation was about the timeframes involved in bringing the heroes to the bigscreen. If we’re discussing individual projects, Green Lantern, Batman and Superman had similar development timeframes for their existing and recent film projects. And if we're not discussing individual projects, there are still similar development and production timeframes.

And Refn's comments mean nothing. He mentioned how he'd hypothetically handle a Wonder Woman movie and was campaigning for the idea. He wasn't saying the studio had such a project in the works.

Refn quite clearly essentially said “I was told if I get LOGAN’s RUN right, I get WONDER WOMAN”. That may not be confirmation there's a WONDER WOMAN film planned, and it would be silly to suggest that, but it would seem to indicate that WONDER WOMAN is not entirely off WB’s radar.

No one saying's that the projects are happening right now...only that WB has not apparently abandoned them.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rust

I really really hope that they will. Make MOS rise above the generic and empty standard of most CBMs today and make it more than just that. Like the Batman-movies have distinct themselves and added so many extra layers and substance to the character they MUST do the same with Supes although conformed to fit him and that universe, while also remembering to have fun.
MOS has the REAL potential to be everything a CBM should be plus a lot more.

Well I think Avengers was everything a Marvel comic book movie should be.

But then that's why I've always preferred DC stories. With Marvel, there's a tone and style that I enjoy casually, and see as a bit of fun. But I just find with DC characters, there's more too it.

Superman can have a tonne of extra layers explored if they want to. If they can build up the world, the people, the social attitudes etc to reflect our own in a poignant way, and if they can actually get Superman's personality right and his reasons right, it'll be downright incredible. It'll be the superhero movie that makes it clear why he's a level above all the other heroes.

And the nice thing about BB having done this in a similar way, is that if they ever do a World's Finest movie, you could easily see all that they have in common compared to other heroes.

They both intentionally created a symbol that was supposed to inspire something, they both have a false public face AND a costume disguise. They both are trying to do more than just stop a few crimes, save a few lives or fight bad guys... They are both trying to make a substantial change to the world - to combat corruption, greed and injustice.

There methods might be as different as black and white, but their friendship comes from the mutual outcomes their looking for. Their fighting the same fight

[Léo Ho Tep]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

Well I think Avengers was everything a Marvel comic book movie should be.

But then that's why I've always preferred DC stories. With Marvel, there's a tone and style that I enjoy casually, and see as a bit of fun. But I just find with DC characters, there's more too it.

Superman can have a tonne of extra layers explored if they want to. If they can build up the world, the people, the social attitudes etc to reflect our own in a poignant way, and if they can actually get Superman's personality right and his reasons right, it'll be downright incredible. It'll be the superhero movie that makes it clear why he's a level above all the other heroes.

And the nice thing about BB having done this in a similar way, is that if they ever do a World's Finest movie, you could easily see all that they have in common compared to other heroes.

They both intentionally created a symbol that was supposed to inspire something, they both have a false public face AND a costume disguise. They both are trying to do more than just stop a few crimes, save a few lives or fight bad guys... They are both trying to make a substantial change to the world - to combat corruption, greed and injustice.

There methods might be as different as black and white, but their friendship comes from the mutual outcomes their looking for. Their fighting the same fight

This.

A lot of people say that Marvel heroes are more relatable. That's probably true, but I like that DC here are inspiring. It's like a modern mythology, and the troubles they encounter are really interesting. While I think the dark and gritty tone is overdone not the most interesting, I also think stories like identity crisis, omac project and infinite crisis are great. They question the legitimacy of those heroes, who stand for justice, but are often in grey area. They also show that those people, while being almost semi gods, are human, and, in the end, relatable.

[hopefuldreamer]

[Rust]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

Well I think Avengers was everything a Marvel comic book movie should be.

But then that's why I've always preferred DC stories. With Marvel, there's a tone and style that I enjoy casually, and see as a bit of fun. But I just find with DC characters, there's more too it.

Superman can have a tonne of extra layers explored if they want to. If they can build up the world, the people, the social attitudes etc to reflect our own in a poignant way, and if they can actually get Superman's personality right and his reasons right, it'll be downright incredible. It'll be the superhero movie that makes it clear why he's a level above all the other heroes.

And the nice thing about BB having done this in a similar way, is that if they ever do a World's Finest movie, you could easily see all that they have in common compared to other heroes.

They both intentionally created a symbol that was supposed to inspire something, they both have a false public face AND a costume disguise. They both are trying to do more than just stop a few crimes, save a few lives or fight bad guys... They are both trying to make a substantial change to the world - to combat corruption, greed and injustice.

There methods might be as different as black and white, but their friendship comes from the mutual outcomes their looking for. Their fighting the same fight

Avengers had a lot going for it. It really did. Personally I just wanted a bit more substance story-wise overall.

I guess maybe Nolan's Batman could co-exist in the Goyer/Nolan/Snyder-verse of MOS. But maybe not so much the other way around. I find it hard to imagine Supes swinging by Wayne's mansion in the Nolan-verse, especially with the trilogy coming to an end and no indication of superbeings yet.
They may have the same angle in their stories and approach, but it doesnt necessarily make them comparable.

A World's Finest spin-off thing starring both Cavill and Bale and written by perhaps Goyer I could imagine though.
It probably shouldnt rely too much on their solo-movies then, again considering the grounded Batman-trilogy.

We'll see where it might go when MOS reveals its nature.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rust

Avengers had a lot going for it. It really did. Personally I just wanted a bit more substance story-wise overall.

I guess maybe Nolan's Batman could co-exist in the Goyer/Nolan/Snyder-verse of MOS. But maybe not so much the other way around. I find it hard to imagine Supes swinging by Wayne's mansion in the Nolan-verse, especially with the trilogy coming to an end and no indication of superbeings yet.
They may have the same angle in their stories and approach, but it doesnt necessarily make them comparable.

A World's Finest spin-off thing starring both Cavill and Bale and written by perhaps Goyer I could imagine though.
It probably shouldnt rely too much on their solo-movies then, again considering the grounded Batman-trilogy.

We'll see where it might go when MOS reveals its nature.

Oh I wasn't suggesting they actually have the two franchises crossover as they exist now.

I personally don't think Bale should be Batman outside of Nolan's triology, and that a diff Bats might actually better compliment Cavill.

I was just saying that because the themes present in BB will hopefully be similar to those present in MOS, the audience will see those similarities and if a WF movie does come about somewhere down the line, either with Cavill and the Batman reboot actor, or with completely different actors; that connection will sort of already have been established.

I mean, all there needs to be is a few lines in there that are about fighting corruption, making yourself into a beacon or 'it's what you do that defines you', and it'll be clearly similar.

And I don't mean people will think 'this is just a Batman rip off' cause that would be ridiculous. But they might think 'Oh cool, it's kind of like how Batman made himself into a symbol of fear, except he's a symbol of hope'.

The films are going to be similar creatures, which can be nothing but a good thing IMO.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

Oh I wasn't suggesting they actually have the two franchises crossover as they exist now.

I personally don't think Bale should be Batman outside of Nolan's triology, and that a diff Bats might actually better compliment Cavill.

I was just saying that because the themes present in BB will hopefully be similar to those present in MOS, the audience will see those similarities and if a WF movie does come about somewhere down the line, either with Cavill and the Batman reboot actor, or with completely different actors; that connection will sort of already have been established.

I mean, all there needs to be is a few lines in there that are about fighting corruption, making yourself into a beacon or 'it's what you do that defines you', and it'll be clearly similar.

And I don't mean people will think 'this is just a Batman rip off' cause that would be ridiculous. But they might think 'Oh cool, it's kind of like how Batman made himself into a symbol of fear, except he's a symbol of hope'.

The films are going to be similar creatures, which can be nothing but a good thing IMO.

Regarding a possible JL or WF spin-off and the upcoming Batman-reboot I guess we can kiss any future in-movie references to Nolan's Batman goodbye, huh? Bale's Batman would probably be too old anyway to play alongside Cavill. I guess a fresh face would be preferable.
But the Batman-reboot is just such a strange thing and I can only imagine they'd do something like that with a team-up thing in mind. Something to co-exist with MOS. Why else do it?. They wanna make people comfortable with a new face and not just throw him in there even though it worked for Ruffalo.

I dont get it. The reboot that is. I mean, I wouldnt mind Batman going back to being more CBM and less crime-noir. And I've never really been a fan of Bale, but what a strange move it is to wanna replace what's become a milestone in CBMs. What the hell?

But yeah, back to Superman and co...

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rust

But yeah, back to Superman and co...

This

I mean, truthfully he's all I really care about. And any future projects, my only real concerns will be what Superman's role in them will be.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

And any future projects, my only real concerns will be what Superman's role in them will be.

None other than MOS setting a new bar for what a CBM can be.
But yeah, that's not what you meant.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rust

None other than MOS setting a new bar for what a CBM can be.
But yeah, that's not what you meant.

Still agree with it though!

I'm trying really hard not to get my hopes up though.

I'm trying to keep them at about the level my hopes are up for ASM.

That I'M going to love it and want to watch it multiple times and feel it'll be a representation of the character close to how I see him - but that it may not be all that successful or well liked by everybody.

I mean, if it WAS a roaring success with critics and audiences alike, I'd be ecstatic. Happy as a clam

I just don't wanna set myself up to feel dissapointed.

[shauner111]

Refn really is the guy to do Wonder Woman, but i think there's a chance he would want to push the envelope with the sexuality, etc. Perhaps the violence as well. And i dont think they would want to debut WW to an audience that will most likely attract a lot of women and possibly children, to "that" kind of world. Maybe he would be fitting for the Batman reboot. I doubt he'll do the first one, but a sequel if Ryan Gosling were to POSSIBLY take the role. Batman is the one character that is becoming more ammune to going darker, or experimentation.

Now for Marvel heroes being more relatable but DC having the deeper characters? Hmm i dont agree. At least not with the marvel statement because i relate a lot more to Bruce Wayne or to Clark Kent/Kal-El and his beliefs more than any Marvel hero. If you're a teenager you may be able to relate to Peter Parker. I personally find nothing relatable to Wolverine or Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Steve Rogers, Thor, etc. Even though i AM a fan of a couple of those characters. Even Wonder Woman is a character that i imagine most women would either strive to be, or relate to in certain ways.

Avengers was a perfect movie for the fun and action-packed nature of comic books. And a perfect measuring stick for Marvel. Not necessarily for DC. They have their own thing going. The Dark Knight Trilogy and the upcoming Man Of Steel should be DC's measuring stick. It's apples & oranges. Also what works for Avengers may very well NOT work for Justice League.

Justice League don't have their own Nick Fury, or S.H.I.E.L.D. They don't have the secret agents, spys, assassins who aren't superheroes fighting alongside the actual superheroes. Plus they tried getting it running similar to Iron Man when they gave us the awful Green Lantern. It fell on its face like a lot of you keep saying. So DC needs to do something different. They now know they can't follow the Avengers style set-up.

I'd love to see a World's Finest first with Cavill and the next Batman (not Bale). Or heck just start up a Justice League once the Man of Steel sequel passes us by, the Batman reboots been established, a WW movie as well as maybe Flash. There's no need for post-credit sequences or cameos from the JLA members in each others movies. Maybe this is why a Worlds Finest would suit it best. THAT can be the movie that sparks it all. A brand new GL and Aquaman can debut in Justice League no problem. Hey if that's successful then you can kickstart solo movies for the two. Instead of teasing their villains at the end, tease a new League member like Martian Manhunter.

[Young Superman]

You know as much as I love and prefer the classic Superman costume, I am finally starting to warm up to the Man of Steel movie suit.

[The Guard]

I don't think either DC or WB have more relatable, or deeper characters. These characters have been around with long enough that there are a lot of similarities between the two companies.

Justice League don't have their own Nick Fury, or S.H.I.E.L.D. They don't have the secret agents, spys, assassins who aren't superheroes fighting alongside the actual superheroes.

There are several people who can bring the Justice League together. Maxwell Lord, Batman, Superman, etc.

The DC Universe does have a Nick Fury. Several of them in fact. Amanda Waller being the most obvious. And the DC Universe also has a SHIELD, in Checkmate. There are various secret organizations besides that.

Having secret agents and spies fighting alongside the Justice League isn't really something that will/won't make the concept work.

[herolee10]

I think another interesting challenge for presenting Superman on screen while presenting his consistent moral code of no killing in the comics would be wondering on how you have him dealing with a hoard of aliens, whether they be humanoid in appearance or not, while not killing them like how the Avengers did/had to when going up against them in their film.

[GreenKToo]

Personally, I think a world's finest film will happen before a JL film is ever even sniffed at again.
Nothing says $$$ like a film with both supes and bats in it. Throw in Lex and the Joker as the main baddies and for the muscle have maybe Metallo and Solomon Grundy. could be gold.

Of course, hire the wrong sort of director and you could see this sucker flop faster than a fish out of water.

I guess It all depends on how MOS performs if we get a WF film or not. I think its safe to say TDKR is going to be a hit.

[herolee10]

I just hope that whoever ends up directing a film where both Superman and Batman are present in it, don’t go about it in the way that the DCAU creators have been doing it because as far as I’ve seen, it’s not hidden secret that the DCAU showrunners favored Batman over the rest of their heroes, especially considering on how he’s been placed as the one to give the deciding mark/blow that results in the big victory at the end.

Granted, while I may be a Superman fan first, if he was to be included in any team up or ensemble, I would want that specific film to present everyone with a equal play in saving the world instead of just showing Superman in position where he takes out the super powered thugs/villains in order for Batman to make the critical save at the end.

[GreenKToo]

I know. In some of those supes just seemed like a mindless brute, while bats would not only stand up to the likes of darkseid ( and live), he would end up using his wits as well to save the day..

[HighFivingMF]

Well you can't have Batman run away from Darkseid and you can't have Batman get killed by Darkseid...

[flickchick85]

I personally believe Green Lantern was the perfect choice to connect the DC Universe. The Corps could've been "WB/DC's SHIELD." Because Hal Jordan was the first human inducted into the Corps, it seems like that's the moment that Earth itself gets inducted into this greater universe (which the Corps seemed fine with excluding them from before), and the citizens of the planet are just gonna have start dealing with that. Sure, Superman could have appeared before that, but to the people of Earth, he's a God - one of a kind. A relic of an alien world far, away. Green Lantern brings that far away world to them. Once Hal Jordan joins the Corps, humans start doing that all the time - Stewart, Gardner, Rayner - Earth is from then on represented in the bigger happenings of the universe. The human representatives of the Corps seem the natural choice to explain to the leaders of Earth about the other sectors of the universe and their place in it.

BUT I do feel like Man of Steel could be the beginning of a shared universe if WB decides to go that way, even if it's not intended to be so by the filmmakers. Simply because it's not like Nolan's Bat-verse, where aliens and extreme sci-fi concepts would be completely out-of-place - by the very nature of Superman's origin, most of the other characters of the DCU could co-exist in the MoS universe without being too stark a contrast, whatever the "individual vision" behind the MoS universe may be.

[Octoberist]

Originally Posted by I Am The Knight

I doubt Gosling would want to play Steve Trevor, even for Refn.

I would rather have him play a real human being (sings) and a real hero.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

I personally believe Green Lantern was the perfect choice to connect the DC Universe. The Corps could've been "WB/DC's SHIELD." Because Hal Jordan was the first human inducted into the Corps, it seems like that's the moment that Earth itself gets inducted into this greater universe (which the Corps seemed fine with excluding them from before), and the citizens of the planet just gonna have start dealing with that. Sure, Superman could have appeared before that, but to the people of Earth, he's a God - one of a kind. A relic of an alien world far, away. Green Lantern brings that far away world to them. Once Hal Jordan joins the Corps, humans start doing that all the time - Stewart, Gardner, Rayner - Earth is from then on represented in the bigger happenings of the universe. The human representatives of the Corps seem the natural choice to explain to the leaders of Earth about the other sectors of the universe and their place in it.

BUT I do feel like Man of Steel could be the beginning of a shared universe if WB decides to go that way, even if it's not intended to be so by the filmmakers. Simply because it's not like Nolan's Bat-verse, where aliens and extreme sci-fi concepts would be completely out-of-place - by the very nature of Superman's origin, most of the other characters of the DCU could co-exist in the MoS universe without being too stark a contrast, whatever the "individual vision" behind the MoS universe may be.

Makes you wonder though, even IF MOS were to be used as a launching pad to springboard into a DC Film Universe, would it be better to establish Superman as having been Earth's first superhero, or would they want to go deeper and hint that organizations such as the JSA had existed prior to Superman's debut.lol

In any case, the idea of Superman being the world's first superhero in any DC canon makes me smile as a fan.haha

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Makes you wonder though, even IF MOS were to be used as a launching pad to springboard into a DC Film Universe, would it be better to establish Superman as having been Earth's first superhero, or would they want to go deeper and hint that organizations such as the JSA had existed prior to Superman's debut.lol

In any case, the idea of Superman being the world's first superhero in any DC canon makes me smile as a fan.haha

Ditto. But then, I just don't particularly care about the JSA at all. Superman being the world's first "known" superhero would be perfectly fine by me. In fact, that really feels like the way it ought to be, imo, since he actually did come first.