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Old 05-08-2012, 04:07 PM   #301
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Originally Posted by iJackSparrow
In The Incredible Hulk, it's heavily implied at the end of the movie that Banner has finally mastered controlling the Hulk. That's why it ended the way it did.
Oh so The Incredible Hulk is now canon? Considering it's been a few years and the main actor who played Hulk has been booted off the project and considering that Ruffalo is apparently taking up the helm for the reboot, I thought the other films weren't connected.

In any event, if the audience had actually seen Hulk transform and control the transformation before hand, perhaps add a line or two of dialog to provide clarity on the situation then we wouldn't be having all this confusion.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #302
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Oh so The Incredible Hulk is now canon? Considering it's been a few years and the main actor who played Hulk has been booted off the project and considering that Ruffalo is apparently taking up the helm for the reboot, I thought the other films weren't connected.

In any event, if the audience had actually seen Hulk transform and control the transformation before hand, perhaps add a line or two of dialog to provide clarity on the situation then we wouldn't be having all this confusion.
Not sure how much can be considered canon...but they do reference TIH in TA.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:12 PM   #303
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Oh so The Incredible Hulk is now canon? Considering it's been a few years and the main actor who played Hulk has been booted off the project and considering that Ruffalo is apparently taking up the helm for the reboot, I thought the other films weren't connected.

In any event, if the audience had actually seen Hulk transform and control the transformation before hand, perhaps add a line or two of dialog to provide clarity on the situation then we wouldn't be having all this confusion.
Yeah Kevin Fiege said TIH is absolutely canon and Banner even mentioned his fight with Abomination in this film.

As a matter of fact footage of the capmus battle from TIH was shown on the screen in Stark Tower.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:13 PM   #304
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

Hey ya'll... I still think my explanation is the best one. The scene with Stark and Banner where Stark urges Banner to accept The Hulk and Banner finally saying I'm always angry bridges them together perfectly to me. But hey, maybe I'm just crazy.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:19 PM   #305
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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In The Incredible Hulk, it's heavily implied at the end of the movie that Banner has finally mastered controlling the Hulk. That's why it ended the way it did.
Even if that's the case, not everyone would have remembered that end scene in TIH. A simple line of dialog could have explained his ability to control the Hulk which would have made his eventual transformation at the end a whole lot less confusing. Remembering a scene from a movie 3-4 years ago is hard enough. Frankly I'm not surprised people complained about this.


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Old 05-08-2012, 04:29 PM   #306
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Even if that's the case, not everyone would have remembered that end scene in TIH. A simple line of dialog could have explained his ability to control the Hulk which would have made his eventual transformation at the end a whole lot less confusing. Remembering a scene from a movie 3-4 years ago is hard enough. Frankly I'm not surprised people complained about this.
Why is my name in this quote, I'm pretty sure that's not my post.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:31 PM   #307
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Not sure how much can be considered canon...but they do reference TIH in TA.
Completely canon, reference about the last time Banner was in Harlem and college footage is shown while Tony and Steve are seeing the files of their teammates.

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Even if that's the case, not everyone would have remembered that end scene in TIH. A simple line of dialog could have explained his ability to control the Hulk which would have made his eventual transformation at the end a whole lot less confusing. Remembering a scene from a movie 3-4 years ago is hard enough. Frankly I'm not surprised people complained about this.
I'm sorry, but I don't want a dumbed down special people version of The Avengers. They don't need to spoon feed me all the info, we can feed the gaps ourselves. It makes for a more richer experience, when someone who doesn't understand that - frankly I can't understand what isn't there to understand, but anyway - he'll end up catching up with The Incredible Hulk movie and having a more richier experience.

Did you want an explanation on TDK about why Batman isn't using his batcave too or just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking? Don't answer it, it's rethorical.

Besides, if your reaction wasn't pure shock awe when we realize that Banner has some sort of control in the Hulk transformation when he punched that alien, if that didn't put a smile on your face... well, I'm afraid that I can't help you. Anything I could say to you would be useless. Maybe this movie isn't for you after all.


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Old 05-08-2012, 04:42 PM   #308
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

Ed Norton's Bruce Banner meditating, and his eyes turning green is pretty vague. It does not prove, in any real sense, that he can now actually control The Hulk, or what degree of control he has. And since Banner is certainly acting like he can't control it in AVENGERS...

Not everyone is going to have seen TIH. And regardless of whether its in TIH or not, if its going to be character development stuff in THE AVENGERS, then it needed to be in THIS film, and not handled vaguely.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:49 PM   #309
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

the only thing i wasn't impressed with is the hulk transformations.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #310
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Sure, but then don't act all surprised when people question that particular scene and don't understand it. After all, not everyone is a comic book geek like you.
Dude, you are on website called "Superhero Hype" why in the world are you acting suprised at posters being "comic book geeks".

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:58 PM   #311
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Dude, you are on website called "Superhero Hype" why in the world are you acting suprised at posters being "comic book geeks".
Where, pray tell, did I act surprised? I assume not all people who post on this forum (or the sub-forums) are necessarily comic book nerds. Some just have a vested interest in the topic, be it the movie or some other topic of discussion.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:02 PM   #312
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

Goliath and everyone else....COOL IT!!!

Continue this discussion politely, or I am stepping in and you won't like that.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:03 PM   #313
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Where, pray tell, did I act surprised? I assume not all people who post on this forum (or the sub-forums) are necessarily comic book nerds. Some just have a vested interest in the topic, be it the movie or some other topic of discussion.
I've just seen you refer to people as "comic book geeks" quite a few times, as if that's something out of the ordinary.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:05 PM   #314
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Where, pray tell, did I act surprised? I assume not all people who post on this forum (or the sub-forums) are necessarily comic book nerds. Some just have a vested interest in the topic, be it the movie or some other topic of discussion.
Vested interest? Did you help finance the film? I think you mean personal preferences, not vested interests.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:05 PM   #315
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

What I didnt like was the guy explaining the back story of every character to his girlfriend in the row behind me. Lol. "Thats Loki hes Thors brother. He tried to take over Asgard......" and so on with every character

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:06 PM   #316
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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What I didnt like was the guy explaining the back story of every character to his girlfriend in the row behind me. Lol. "Thats Loki hes Thors brother. He tried to take over Asgard......" and so on with every character
I'm sure he got sick of his girl friend asking a bunch of questions, you can't place all the blame on him.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:10 PM   #317
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Everything is about Tony in the Iron Man movies because the plots revolve around his tech, and he himself, since he's the lead character.

He stops being selfish after he escapes the cave in Iron Man. By Iron Man 2, he's not being selfish. He's doing reckless things...but not so much selfish ones. He's giving the world the Stark Expo, and still being Iron Man and handling world affairs. His issue in Iron Man 2 is an issue of ego, not selfishness. In The Avengers, he's working on green energy for everyone, though it's being tested on Stark Tower (A plot element that strangely never goes anywhere)

And again, whether it is selfish that he is attoning for his sins or not, whether his tech is involved or not...he has repeatedly showed that he is willing to put himself in harm's way for innocents. This is why I say that the end of the movie...assuming it is developing him, develops him in a way he doesn't need to be developed.

It's not like he makes some "I won't be selfish anymore" resolution at the end of this movie. There's no such resolution to be found. He just stops being an ass for the battle, because a guy he knew died, or what have you. It's all very vaguely handled.
Yes, Tony Stark doesn't make the choice to stop being a jerk, and he puts himself in harms way actively. But, that isn't the same as sacrifice. Cap's point is Stark won't do something when he knows he will die because he is selfish, and in IM2....yes, Stark was very selfish. He showed that many times. The Stark Expo and such can all be seen as his ego running wild, even if that isn't his only reason. But, an obejective person doesn't know all the facts leading up. Cap only got what was in the file and on the film he saw.

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What criticism?

Learned to see the best in others? When did he see the worst? How is this relevant to Captain America as a character, who SHOULD be able to look for the best in others?

If all Cap saw in Stark was a brat, then Cap didn't do his homework. At all.

And being a leader in a modern setting isn't character development if nothing about you, as a character, changes. Far as I can tell, nothing did.
Once again, Rogers had evidence to justify his opinion of Stark, including an entire history of weapons sales and such. It's not out of left field or even bad writing. Cap's adjustments will likely be material for Cap 2, but clearly he loses some faith in SHIELD and such in the modern setting already and that is a change in character.

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That's not character development, though. That's "emotion"

Trying to save your brother is not changing as a character yourself.
Yes, Thor doesn't drastically change, but his motivations are developed.

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TIH was mostly about trying to cure, and then learning to control himself, at the very end.

Banner has accepted The Hulk as part of himself in two previous movies.

Suddenly he hasn't, but yay, he has again!
Controlling the Hulk and being okay it is part of you are different struggles. Yes, he decides in TIH to attempt to control the beast another way, but this doesn't mean he is at peace with the beast. It's a different arc.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:24 PM   #318
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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In any event, if the audience had actually seen Hulk transform and control the transformation before hand, perhaps add a line or two of dialog to provide clarity on the situation then we wouldn't be having all this confusion.
This is my one and only gripe with the movie. It was hard to connect the old movie with the new one because of the actor change. I tried very hard to forget about TIH because I knew Ruffalo would bring a new Banner to the stage (which I love btw)

I think if we saw him controlling The Hulk when he lands in that giant abandoned factory for a moment like the old man who was there told him he did maybe that would of connected Banners Control of The Hulks rage a little more.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:24 PM   #319
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I remember him thinking of howard as a womanizer too but could rely on him for tech and support although they hinted at a love triangle with him maggie and cap.
Yeah. Sounds about right.

This isn't a criticism of The Avengers but I really hope that an upcoming movie or even a DVD extra we can see Howard Stark's view of Cap after he was lost. Obviously by the end of that movie Stark had gained tremendous respect for him.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:42 PM   #320
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Even if that's the case, not everyone would have remembered that end scene in TIH. A simple line of dialog could have explained his ability to control the Hulk which would have made his eventual transformation at the end a whole lot less confusing. Remembering a scene from a movie 3-4 years ago is hard enough. Frankly I'm not surprised people complained about this.
Well, in all honesty what got me puzzled was that I never got that he was under Loki's control the first time Hulk appeared.




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the only thing i wasn't impressed with is the hulk transformations.
I consider the first transformation the best I've seen in both Hulk and TIH. Still could be better, I still hold the 1977 TV Hulk pilot as having the best transformations.

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:45 PM   #321
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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This is my one and only gripe with the movie. It was hard to connect the old movie with the new one because of the actor change. I tried very hard to forget about TIH because I knew Ruffalo would bring a new Banner to the stage (which I love btw)

I think if we saw him controlling The Hulk when he lands in that giant abandoned factory for a moment like the old man who was there told him he did maybe that would of connected Banners Control of The Hulks rage a little more.
Mere seconds after saying he was "always angry " Banner turned into The Hulk at will.
What more evidence of control is needed?
It seemed pretty cut and dried to me .

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:17 PM   #322
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Exactly.

Had the portal been open longer they woulda been in deep **** though.
People seem to keep forgetting that before Hulk showed up they were about to get seriously owned. Tony was "bringing the party to them" if Hulk did not arrive they would've got owned.

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #323
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Not sure how much can be considered canon...but they do reference TIH in TA.
TIH is canon, they just changed the actor but its still canon as you can see footage of it in TA and IM2 (and in TA Banner mentions the fight with Abomination). 03's Hulk isn't.

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #324
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

Not sure if this point has been discussed already (every thread is a million pages long, after all), but:

Cap and Tony are deeply concerned when it seemed "too easy" to catch Loki in Germany. ...So why didn't they get EXTREMELY concerned when they apparently RE-captured Loki in the woods after Thor and Iron Man fought? Loki was left standing completely unattended in the middle of the woods. After Thor, tony and cap put an end to their fight, did they just go back to Loki who raised his wrists to them eagerly and said "Alright, time to go? Chain me back up!"

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Old 05-08-2012, 07:57 PM   #325
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers - Part 1

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Not sure if this point has been discussed already (every thread is a million pages long, after all), but:

Cap and Tony are deeply concerned when it seemed "too easy" to catch Loki in Germany. ...So why didn't they get EXTREMELY concerned when they apparently RE-captured Loki in the woods after Thor and Iron Man fought? Loki was left standing completely unattended in the middle of the woods. After Thor, tony and cap put an end to their fight, did they just go back to Loki who raised his wrists to them eagerly and said "Alright, time to go? Chain me back up!"
Tony is never concerned, Cap is always deeply concerned. Cap had everybody's number almost the entire movie actually, he was very smart.

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