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Old 05-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: The Roster

Yeah, I wouldn't kill off anybody. Not for many, many films.

It's a simple matter to just treat movie Avengers the same as comic Avengers --- it's a rotating roster with several key core characters staying put (notably, the Big Three of Thor, Cap and Iron Man), and nobody's (well, very few) had to die to get a replacement on the team.

And comic Avengers has done quite nicely with having permanent members who never had any real solo titles or elaborate backstory. Avengers is its own title and its own team, it's *not* just a catch-all All-Star team.

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:25 AM   #27
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Killing off Thor after one Avengers film?....no, just no I'd walk out of the theater and never support another MS film again.
Even Thor 3? With Thor in it???
Think more Gandalf and less, I dunno, the black guy in a horror movie.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be Thor. Could be anyone really. But you can't have a dark second act, or even a 'more personal movie,' unless you up the stakes death-wise.


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Yeah, I wouldn't kill off anybody. Not for many, many films.

It's a simple matter to just treat movie Avengers the same as comic Avengers --- it's a rotating roster with several key core characters staying put (notably, the Big Three of Thor, Cap and Iron Man), and nobody's (well, very few) had to die to get a replacement on the team.

And comic Avengers has done quite nicely with having permanent members who never had any real solo titles or elaborate backstory. Avengers is its own title and its own team, it's *not* just a catch-all All-Star team.
The movies aren't the comics in so, so many ways, especially narratively and emotionally. But we've all danced that dance before, I think. Long story short: Did Coulson's death make the movie worse or better? Do you think they're going to up the stakes for a sequel, or keep them the same/lower them?

People we care about dying makes the movie better. It's just that simple.

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:48 AM   #28
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lol. Killing off Thor is kind of laughable honestly. Hawkeye and BW aren't ideal Avengers due to not having 'superpowers' but I think they earned their way onto the roster.

In regards to Ultron, Although we all want hank/janet in Avengers, if it isn't possible, I don't think it would be completely unbelievable that Stark could come up with Ultron concept and creation. If it is executed well and a good movie is made, in the end, it won't matter who creates Ultron.

Sure it will be disappointing that it isn't pym creating Ultron, but, we can't always get what we want, and if it is a good movie, everything else is moot. for me.

after Pym, Black Panther and/or Ms. Marvel are the avengers I'd like to see most (vision next) and you definitely do not have to kill off anyone if you add characters imho

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:56 AM   #29
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you definitely do not have to kill off anyone if you add characters imho
That's true, you could remove them some other way, but killing would be a way to remove them that could make the movie better, and when you have a world-spanning problem, there's not a lot of other ways to remove an earth-bound hero.

Because Avengers took 2 hrs to service 6 heroes, and really didn't do all too well by Hawkeye. There's not enough time to properly serve 7 or 8 epic characters in a two and a half hour movie. They need action set pieces, they need character set pieces and they need all of it to be earned emotionally and actually be fluid with a single movie narrative. Something has to give.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:10 PM   #30
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I say Sharon Carter. If she's in the new Cap movie

But in terms of "superheroes" I say Black Panther for sure. Especially if he has a solo movie before Avengers 2.

I think Ms. Marvel or Doctor Strange are my next 2 choices. Then the Pyms (unless theyre trying to introduce Ultron which of course makes the Pyms my #2 choices)

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:19 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Roster

there is still space to expand the roster without killing anyone off or get anyone to leave the team.
you don't have to devote screen time to make the audience familiar with 6 heroes....or at least not as much as in TA1
you don't have to devote screen time to let those six form a team....or at least not as much as in TA1
this screen time you can use to focus on new characters instead.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:26 PM   #32
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Same cast except add secondary characters like Hank Pym, Janet van Dyne, Bobbi Morse, Carol Danvers, or Jessica Drew (not all but whichever help the story).

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:29 PM   #33
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Hmmm... I don't think it'd be that much less than in TA1. You still have to form the team, and give the emotional reasons for doing so again. You still have to introduce all the characters for people who haven't seen the previous movies. These are relatively small parts of the film, so cutting them out, I don't think, will leave you room for another full grown main character. Keep in mind, they scarcely had room for Hawkeye already.

Keep in mind people care about *these* characters now. Most of the audience is like 'more Hawkeye plz' not 'where's the Pym?'

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:41 PM   #34
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Even Thor 3? With Thor in it???
Think more Gandalf and less, I dunno, the black guy in a horror movie.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be Thor. Could be anyone really. But you can't have a dark second act, or even a 'more personal movie,' unless you up the stakes death-wise.

Thor III comes after A2...

I see what you're saying though, it's just that Thor is too important to be "absent" in the first three.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #35
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That's true, you could remove them some other way, but killing would be a way to remove them that could make the movie better, and when you have a world-spanning problem, there's not a lot of other ways to remove an earth-bound hero.

Because Avengers took 2 hrs to service 6 heroes, and really didn't do all too well by Hawkeye. There's not enough time to properly serve 7 or 8 epic characters in a two and a half hour movie. They need action set pieces, they need character set pieces and they need all of it to be earned emotionally and actually be fluid with a single movie narrative. Something has to give.
Well, no one is going to get the same amount of screen time. For the time that Hawkeye was on the screen, the dude kicked massive amounts of ass. Showed there was clear history between him and BW that was touched on, Showed off his fighting skill when not restrained by a conscience(against BW). He showed how cold and efficient he was while under Loki's control, he killed his fellow agents, even shot nick fury. Then he gets his turn as a good guy and he kills a bunch of aliens blows loki up and showcases 8 or 9 arrows displaying the variety of things he can do with them....

Not too shabby for 12 minutes of screen time.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:48 PM   #36
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Sure all things in Hero world stop when the world is threatened but people still have their own adventures. You introduce new characters to the avengers roster and there are opportunities to have them do their own movies taking place at the same time.

Hell they could even be smaller-scale movies that serve as tie-in's to the larger avengers movie if they wanted.. With a shared universe the possibilities are endless.

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Old 05-09-2012, 12:50 PM   #37
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Don't have She-Hulk, female Captain Britain and D Man and I'm happy.

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Old 05-09-2012, 01:10 PM   #38
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Well, no one is going to get the same amount of screen time. For the time that Hawkeye was on the screen, the dude kicked massive amounts of ass. Showed there was clear history between him and BW that was touched on, Showed off his fighting skill when not restrained by a conscience(against BW). He showed how cold and efficient he was while under Loki's control, he killed his fellow agents, even shot nick fury. Then he gets his turn as a good guy and he kills a bunch of aliens blows loki up and showcases 8 or 9 arrows displaying the variety of things he can do with them....

Not too shabby for 12 minutes of screen time.
Hawkeye received much, MUCH more than 12 minutes of screen time. He was in almost the entire first ten minutes of the movie. And even when he wasn't on screen, he was still a significant part of the storyline. And he was the anemic one, as you know, the lists for any of the other Avengers are much, much longer. Are you proposing a character being even less served than Hawkeye? That sounds like a really bad idea to me.

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Old 05-09-2012, 01:28 PM   #39
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Hawkeye received much, MUCH more than 12 minutes of screen time. He was in almost the entire first ten minutes of the movie. And even when he wasn't on screen, he was still a significant part of the storyline. And he was the anemic one, as you know, the lists for any of the other Avengers are much, much longer.
I respectfully disagree. It's been stated in some other threads but here is the article in regards to screen time that I THINK other posters also got their information from in regards to heroe's screen times.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/05/how-m...enger-get.html

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Are you proposing a character being even less served than Hawkeye? That sounds like a really bad idea to me.
I don't quite understand what you're asking here.

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Old 05-09-2012, 01:41 PM   #40
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It's kind've a weird one. On one hand you don't want to add too many characters at all... On the other, I always imagined you'd need a few more cosmic heroes if their going to fight Thanos.

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Old 05-09-2012, 02:03 PM   #41
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It's kind've a weird one. On one hand you don't want to add too many characters at all... On the other, I always imagined you'd need a few more cosmic heroes if their going to fight Thanos.
Well, we are getting GOTG at some point (soon I hope) hopefully they'd have something to do with Thanos be it a large part or small.

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Old 05-09-2012, 03:42 PM   #42
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I respectfully disagree. It's been stated in some other threads but here is the article in regards to screen time that I THINK other posters also got their information from in regards to heroe's screen times.

http://www.vulture.com/2012/05/how-m...enger-get.html
Hmmm... I guess in terms of actual facetime he is pretty anemic. He definitely doesn't have a personal storyline, he's really a function of Black Widow's. Is that satisfactory to you for your favorite character?

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I don't quite understand what you're asking here.
What, in your opinion, is the minimum screen time for an Avenger? Is it okay for multiple characters to be sidelined with no personal story, like Hawkeye was? If so, how do we determine which characters this is okay to do this to?

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Old 05-09-2012, 03:47 PM   #43
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I really don't think they should kill any major character off, unless they were to some how come back. I'd be outraged if they did.

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Old 05-09-2012, 03:55 PM   #44
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i think with the right plot and the right director like whedon adding more members is a great idea

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Old 05-09-2012, 04:19 PM   #45
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For some reason I want to keep Hawkeye but kick off Black Widow. I can imagine Widow being killed in a sequel, and then having Janet reluctantly join the team for the sake of the Earth. So,

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Old 05-09-2012, 04:22 PM   #46
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I couldn't picture Jan being reluctant, she loves the whole superhero thing. Hank is a different story

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Old 05-09-2012, 04:27 PM   #47
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Oh yeah....... I need to stop reading so much Ultimate stuff lol.

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Old 05-09-2012, 04:31 PM   #48
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Here is how i see it
Avengers 2 Ant-man Wasp and Black Panther if they can fit him
Avengers 3 Vision and if Fox hasn't used Scarlett Witch and Quicksilver for the X-men movies i guess Marvel can add them to the Avengers Roster

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Old 05-09-2012, 04:37 PM   #49
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It's been set that the roster in the first film is

-Cap
-Iron Man
-Thor
-Hulk
-Widow
-Hawkeye

w/ Fury leading the charge behind the scenes with SHIELD.

The best part of the film is that its not so overly crowded that you get lost and get to have these moments with everyone and it not feeling like a clusterf--k.

Ok...so sequel time, are we looking at only adding ONE new name (Ant-Man if it ever gets done in time) or would you be good to see the original line up stay for the sequel and thats it, nobody new but villians.
I can think you can add 2. You wouldn't have to really have any backstory for the new 2.and perhaps their back story can be filled in with cameo spots in some of the stand alone films.

Scarlett Witch and QuickSilver


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Old 05-09-2012, 04:39 PM   #50
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There will be no Selvig or Coulson and you can have BW's role lessened while introducing Jan and Hank.

Well no Coulson, but Agent Maria Hill will take the Coulson scenes I'm guessing.

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