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Old 05-09-2012, 07:06 PM   #51
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Hmmm... I guess in terms of actual facetime he is pretty anemic. He definitely doesn't have a personal storyline, he's really a function of Black Widow's. Is that satisfactory to you for your favorite character?

What, in your opinion, is the minimum screen time for an Avenger? Is it okay for multiple characters to be sidelined with no personal story, like Hawkeye was? If so, how do we determine which characters this is okay to do this to?
I don't know what the minimum screen time would or should be.. I'm not the director and I'm glad I'm not part of that decision making process in regards to that. But it is what it is.

Was it satisfactory? I'm sure it wasn't for a hardcore Hawkeye fan. But when you're basically debuting a character in the movie where everyone teams up, you're not leaving room for personal character development. they squeezed in what little they could. So for what they had to work with within the context of the film, I thought they did him justice.

That's where the big 4(yes i'm including Hulk and TIH cause it is in continuity of MCU and they reference it, albeit small, in the movie) have the advantage cause they had solo films(2 for IM) to explore them on a deeper level.

I'll say this, I left the theatre wanting to know more about hawkeye(and b.w. for that matter). So, I think if they can make even one person want to know more about someone who got the smallest amount of screen time, they did a damn good job with the character.

And with the success of this film, there are probably opportunities in the future(near at that) to explore Hawkeye and BW more in depth, whether its in a Hawkeye/BW combo film, or a shield film, or whatever they decide to do. But for this film, I think they maximized what they could do with him.

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:37 PM   #52
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How about making the Hulk a antagonist as a prelude to Planet Hulk. The Avengers are tasked with going after the Hulk, who despite being hunted assists the team in the face of a greater threat. Sadly after the battle the government is able to subdue Banner and despite the violent objections of the Avengers, Banner gets launched into space.

The movie ends with the Avengers as fugitives and the impending universal threat of Thanos in Avengers 3.

Add in Ms.Marvel (to bring in a Kree connection) and Black Panther.

God I wish they could add Beast, he was always one of my favorite Avengers.

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:43 PM   #53
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How about making the Hulk a antagonist as a prelude to Planet Hulk. The Avengers are tasked with going after the Hulk, who despite being hunted assists the team in the face of a greater threat. Sadly after the battle the government is able to subdue Banner and despite the violent objections of the Avengers, Banner gets launched into space.

The movie ends with the Avengers as fugitives and the impending universal threat of Thanos in Avengers 3.

Add in Ms.Marvel (to bring in a Kree connection) and Black Panther.

God I wish they could add Beast, he was always one of my favorite Avengers.
that wouldn't make a lick of sense considering they spent the whole avengers movie making him a hero.

Beast always is and always will be an X-man to me. Same thing with all the different x-men on the avengers.

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Old 05-09-2012, 07:58 PM   #54
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that wouldn't make a lick of sense considering they spent the whole avengers movie making him a hero.

Beast always is and always will be an X-man to me. Same thing with all the different x-men on the avengers.
The Hulk is and always will be a loose cannon. No matter how heroic he may be, he will ALWAYS be viewed as a threat. In fact the Jekyl/Hyde elements are crucial to the character. Do you think if they launched a Hulk solo movie that he's just going to be a big green Captain America now?

All it would take is one situation where Banner is hurt or enraged to the point where the Hulk is released and causes massive devastation. The Avengers demonstrated that yes Banner could initiate the transformations on his own but also that the transformation could still be set off without his control and the Hulk will still rampage.

It's a shame you lack the vision to see the possibilities.

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Old 05-09-2012, 08:12 PM   #55
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The Hulk is and always will be a loose cannon. No matter how heroic he may be, he will ALWAYS be viewed as a threat. In fact the Jekyl/Hyde elements are crucial to the character. Do you think if they launched a Hulk solo movie that he's just going to be a big green Captain America now?

All it would take is one situation where Banner is hurt or enraged to the point where the Hulk is released and causes massive devastation. The Avengers demonstrated that yes Banner could initiate the transformations on his own but also that the transformation could still be set off without his control and the Hulk will still rampage.

It's a shame you lack the vision to see the possibilities.
It's got nothing to do with lacking vision, screw you.

I have no problem envisioning it, or even with the possibility of it actually happening, it just doesn't make sense, after painting the hulk as a mostly heroic character with control to completely undo it.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:07 PM   #56
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It's got nothing to do with lacking vision, screw you.

I have no problem envisioning it, or even with the possibility of it actually happening, it just doesn't make sense, after painting the hulk as a mostly heroic character with control to completely undo it.
Control? He nearly killed BW, tore holes in the Helicarrier and whipped up on Thor. How is that control?

He is able to direct the Hulk in one battle and soceity is just going to welcome him with open arms. THAT is what doesn't make sense. The general public still fears his power. The military and General Ross are still out to capture him. None of this has changed.

Again you demostrate a lack understanding of the crucial element of the character. The Hulk CANNOT be controlled. Directed yes. Controlled NO WAY. Furthermore, the Hulk does not WANT to be controlled.

I am not saying to make him evil, I am saying make him the Hulk. Banner slips up in a moment of weakness, much like the Helicarrier scene, and uses too much force in dealing with some threat. A town is damaged, innocents are hurt . . . whatever. The point is, it would only take an "unsancationed" transformation to set off another manhunt and rampage. Not really a stretch that The Avengers might assemble to neutralize their brother in arms before he his confronted by the military's Hulkbusters.

How many times did we see this in the actual books? A whole freakin bunch!

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:18 PM   #57
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Any chance we can see Ms. Marvel in the future? She seems like one of the more well-known female Marvel superhero's, and she is hot.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:19 PM   #58
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No additions IMO. Go with this roster for 3 movies.
I think this would be fine, but I don't think it's likely.

One way they could keep A2 from being overcrowded is to reduce the roles Black Widow and Hawkeye play. They are SHIELD agents so it wouldn't be hard to explain they are on other missions. Then there is room for another character or two.

If they make a SHIELD movie, they could heavily feature Black Widow and Hawkeye, to "compensate" for less time in A2.

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Old 05-09-2012, 10:09 PM   #59
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Control? He nearly killed BW, tore holes in the Helicarrier and whipped up on Thor. How is that control?

He is able to direct the Hulk in one battle and soceity is just going to welcome him with open arms. THAT is what doesn't make sense. The general public still fears his power. The military and General Ross are still out to capture him. None of this has changed.

Again you demostrate a lack understanding of the crucial element of the character. The Hulk CANNOT be controlled. Directed yes. Controlled NO WAY. Furthermore, the Hulk does not WANT to be controlled.

I am not saying to make him evil, I am saying make him the Hulk. Banner slips up in a moment of weakness, much like the Helicarrier scene, and uses too much force in dealing with some threat. A town is damaged, innocents are hurt . . . whatever. The point is, it would only take an "unsancationed" transformation to set off another manhunt and rampage. Not really a stretch that The Avengers might assemble to neutralize their brother in arms before he his confronted by the military's Hulkbusters.

How many times did we see this in the actual books? A whole freakin bunch!
Now I lack understanding? As well as vision? Good lord man, give me a break.

I understand the Hulk is an uncontrollable beast the majority of the time.. But I also understand that it seems they want a more heroic interpretation of him within the confines of this particular MCU. And with the way he has been built up and portrayed (I'm disregarding the helicarrier rampage at the moment, which imo anyway was due mainly to the influence of loki's staff) it seems that would go against the way MS seems to be molding this particular hulk version. Not to say we won't get what you're saying at some point, I definitely think doing that for TA2 would be way too soon

Since 1962(Hulk#1), you don't think there's been at least ONE or TWO stretches where the hulk has been a FLAT OUT HERO and not jsut some mindless rampaging beast? c'mon, that is just as short-sighted and lacking in understanding of the character as you believe I lack with him being only an uncontrollable beast..

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Old 05-09-2012, 10:25 PM   #60
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^Relax MK, we know you have vision.

If Banner is always angry, and Loki has to enact a master plan just to get him to Hulk out... what on earth is going to make him go on a rampage? Do you realize he was taking orders and under complete control, right? You realize the storyline in TIH and in Avengers is that they're no longer separate people. That's what Banner said, I know, but Loki told the truth, he's a monster making play at being a man, and the rest of the movie showed that to be true. Hulk is not a monster, Hulk is Banner.

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I don't know what the minimum screen time would or should be.. I'm not the director and I'm glad I'm not part of that decision making process in regards to that. But it is what it is.

Was it satisfactory? I'm sure it wasn't for a hardcore Hawkeye fan. But when you're basically debuting a character in the movie where everyone teams up, you're not leaving room for personal character development. they squeezed in what little they could. So for what they had to work with within the context of the film, I thought they did him justice.

That's where the big 4(yes i'm including Hulk and TIH cause it is in continuity of MCU and they reference it, albeit small, in the movie) have the advantage cause they had solo films(2 for IM) to explore them on a deeper level.

I'll say this, I left the theatre wanting to know more about hawkeye(and b.w. for that matter). So, I think if they can make even one person want to know more about someone who got the smallest amount of screen time, they did a damn good job with the character.

And with the success of this film, there are probably opportunities in the future(near at that) to explore Hawkeye and BW more in depth, whether its in a Hawkeye/BW combo film, or a shield film, or whatever they decide to do. But for this film, I think they maximized what they could do with him.
They gave great character development to all the characters, except Hawkeye, not only did they give them great development, but it was the center of the film, and the source of all its action, and part of the reason everyone loved it, not just comics fans. If you felt it was squeezed in, I think there's a lot of the craftsmanship of the film you missed out on.

While one person wanting to know more about Hawkeye might seem like a success in your eyes, the general public gathered that he wasn't worth exploring, that this was the absolute best he has to offer. Even in the link you posted it's 'of course he didn't get screentime, not much to see' No one's calling for a Hawkeye film. Plenty of people are calling for a Black Widow film. It's odd that anyone who admires these characters would say that Hawkeye was done justice. He got shafted for the good of the overall film. It happens, he still got some time to shine a bit, and that was a brilliant work to make it happen.

But let's say Hawkeye was done justice. He didn't have a personal storyline, or a climactic moment of victory, or character development with more than one Avenger, but sure. Are you proposing that other characters are treated the same way? Given one dimensional storylines that primarily serve other Avengers, just so we can have 7 or 8 Avengers? Are you proposing to make the movie longer to accomodate more personal storylines and action setpieces? Are you proposing Joss just get better at writing in order to make the accommodation?

It sounds like you would advocate more characters being treated like Hawkeye, but I'm not sure, I think you're dodging the question.

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Old 05-09-2012, 11:28 PM   #61
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Now I lack understanding? As well as vision? Good lord man, give me a break.

I understand the Hulk is an uncontrollable beast the majority of the time.. But I also understand that it seems they want a more heroic interpretation of him within the confines of this particular MCU. And with the way he has been built up and portrayed (I'm disregarding the helicarrier rampage at the moment, which imo anyway was due mainly to the influence of loki's staff) it seems that would go against the way MS seems to be molding this particular hulk version. Not to say we won't get what you're saying at some point, I definitely think doing that for TA2 would be way too soon

Since 1962(Hulk#1), you don't think there's been at least ONE or TWO stretches where the hulk has been a FLAT OUT HERO and not jsut some mindless rampaging beast? c'mon, that is just as short-sighted and lacking in understanding of the character as you believe I lack with him being only an uncontrollable beast..
Well if you want to disregard TIH and the Hellicarrier sequence, yeah, he's a great guy. However even when he was in a "controlled state" in the comics, teammates and friends were still wary of when the Hulk might bust loose again. It created a barrier which prevented the character from being fully embraced in any team.

I am trying to point out THE most compelling aspect of the character is the struggle with the inner-monster. He was cast in a more heroic light in the Avengers but the underlying theme was that Shield and his teammates were concerned and uncertain of his stability. He was an asset when there was a mutual enemy at which he could "aimed" but also if for whatever reason a transformation was tripped he could still rampage and remained a threat as demonstrated in the helicarrier sequence.

Your indicating that "it doesn't make lick of sense" for him to be an antagonist is not only wrong but not including these elements is essentially neutering the chaotic nature of the character and removing a potentially dynamic story element.

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Old 05-10-2012, 12:30 AM   #62
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I am not dodging the question. Maybe I'm interpreting it differently than the way you're asking, but I'm trying to answer it to best of my ability. Same goes for the 'minor argument' with OsGom. It's all good on both fronts.

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They gave great character development to all the characters, except Hawkeye, not only did they give them great development, but it was the center of the film, and the source of all its action, and part of the reason everyone loved it, not just comics fans. If you felt it was squeezed in, I think there's a lot of the craftsmanship of the film you missed out on.
Of course they gave great development to everyone else, they have actual films to draw from and places for them to go as characters. Hawkeye was relegated to essentially being debuted in this film, how much character-development time - Just for Hawkeye - did you want devoted to him in the film. With everything that was going on and everyone that was in this film, I think Whedon tried painting Hawkeye in the best possible light knowing he was the newest and therefore least developed member.

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He got shafted for the good of the overall film. It happens, he still got some time to shine a bit, and that was a brilliant work to make it happen.
I agree with this entire statement. He had the least amount of time, so the little bit of hawkeye we got, was great hawkeye. But i'm also not going to cry foul that a guy who was just introduced into this film, didn't get the best character moments. Of course, you could play devil's advocate and say that's why he should have gotten more character moments, because he was the least developed, but it doesn't matter because no amount of complaining is going to magically make hawkeye get more character development when I see this again tomorrow.

I hope though that in the long run, the GA sees how great Hawkeye was and is and maybe we can get some sort of Hawkeye-centric film so we can get his character-development on the level of cap, IM, Thor, Hulk and whatnot.

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Are you proposing that other characters are treated the same way? Given one dimensional storylines that primarily serve other Avengers, just so we can have 7 or 8 Avengers? Are you proposing to make the movie longer to accomodate more personal storylines and action setpieces? Are you proposing Joss just get better at writing in order to make the accommodation?
Ha, Joss doesn't need to get better at writing. Joss is a Godsend to the MCu

Other characters shouldn't be treated the same way as hawkeye(or even bw as far as their character development.) I want the most developed characters in these movies so I can care about them as much as IM, Cap, Thor and even Hulk.

But if you're going to introduce a new character to the team without the help of a previous movie, that our other main avengers got, it isn't realistic to expect them to be on the same characteristically developed level as the others is all.

If you want a solution to that problem, not that i'd be for or against this, but I guess then they shouldn't introduce any new characters to the actual team until they get their own solo movies so they can be fully developed and actually have the next Avengers film to help their character grow upon which has already been laid out in a solo film.

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Old 05-10-2012, 08:33 AM   #63
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I am not dodging the question. Maybe I'm interpreting it differently than the way you're asking, but I'm trying to answer it to best of my ability. Same goes for the 'minor argument' with OsGom. It's all good on both fronts.



Of course they gave great development to everyone else, they have actual films to draw from and places for them to go as characters. Hawkeye was relegated to essentially being debuted in this film, how much character-development time - Just for Hawkeye - did you want devoted to him in the film. With everything that was going on and everyone that was in this film, I think Whedon tried painting Hawkeye in the best possible light knowing he was the newest and therefore least developed member.



I agree with this entire statement. He had the least amount of time, so the little bit of hawkeye we got, was great hawkeye. But i'm also not going to cry foul that a guy who was just introduced into this film, didn't get the best character moments. Of course, you could play devil's advocate and say that's why he should have gotten more character moments, because he was the least developed, but it doesn't matter because no amount of complaining is going to magically make hawkeye get more character development when I see this again tomorrow.

I hope though that in the long run, the GA sees how great Hawkeye was and is and maybe we can get some sort of Hawkeye-centric film so we can get his character-development on the level of cap, IM, Thor, Hulk and whatnot.



Ha, Joss doesn't need to get better at writing. Joss is a Godsend to the MCu

Other characters shouldn't be treated the same way as hawkeye(or even bw as far as their character development.) I want the most developed characters in these movies so I can care about them as much as IM, Cap, Thor and even Hulk.

But if you're going to introduce a new character to the team without the help of a previous movie, that our other main avengers got, it isn't realistic to expect them to be on the same characteristically developed level as the others is all.

If you want a solution to that problem, not that i'd be for or against this, but I guess then they shouldn't introduce any new characters to the actual team until they get their own solo movies so they can be fully developed and actually have the next Avengers film to help their character grow upon which has already been laid out in a solo film.
You can introduce new characters with a minimal amount of time devoted to backstory and powers. Give audiences credit....they're not toddlers. You don't have to hold their hand to make them understand. Most audiences can "figure out" a character with just a few lines and even a single scene --- and that's true of any movie in any genre throughout film history, long as the writing's good. You don't need thirty minutes to show who Black Panther is, or what Ant-Man's powers are. Granted, *some* Avengers' origins have very convoluted backstories tied to their powers (Vision, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel), but even that could be altered and/or abridged to be a lot more concise.

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Old 05-12-2012, 05:43 PM   #64
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I think Ant-Man and Wasp are must haves. I can't see not having them come in at some point. After that, I think there would be room for one more addition, in which case I'd also suggest Black Panther.

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Old 05-12-2012, 08:08 PM   #65
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Of course they gave great development to everyone else, they have actual films to draw from and places for them to go as characters. Hawkeye was relegated to essentially being debuted in this film, how much character-development time - Just for Hawkeye - did you want devoted to him in the film. With everything that was going on and everyone that was in this film, I think Whedon tried painting Hawkeye in the best possible light knowing he was the , newest and therefore least developed member.
Hmmm... but Black Widow didn't have a film, and she got more development than Hulk who did. It's not a function of having solo films. Previous development gives you fewer directions you can go, not more. But on that note, Hawkeye was available to get the shaft in this way because he had no solo film, he was not a highly anticipated part of the film, it's not that he was somehow unable to handle lots of development (what new character is?), but he could be sacrificed, so to speak, without much outcry.

I personally think Hawkeye could have stood for a couple more minutes, enough to get his take on the events, give him a half a conversation with someone else, and another action moment, like a really crucial shot at the gateway or something like that. I suspect that couple minutes ended up on the cutting room floor. But it was 'okay' without that. It just made it seem like he wasn't capable of doing more than he did. Once he was out of arrows, he was out of the film.


But my point, again, is not that Hawkeye was short sticked, but that he was shortsticked by necessity, because you can only serve 5 and a half characters at the level that the Avengers operates at, regardless of any other factors, because of time. Unless you are ready to paint additional characters, including those already established to perform at Avengers-level, as Hawkeye-level in capability and depth, then you simply cannot add any more characters without taking some beloved, expected characters away.

Quote:
I agree with this entire statement. He had the least amount of time, so the little bit of hawkeye we got, was great hawkeye. But i'm also not going to cry foul that a guy who was just introduced into this film, didn't get the best character moments. Of course, you could play devil's advocate and say that's why he should have gotten more character moments, because he was the least developed, but it doesn't matter because no amount of complaining is going to magically make hawkeye get more character development when I see this again tomorrow.

I hope though that in the long run, the GA sees how great Hawkeye was and is and maybe we can get some sort of Hawkeye-centric film so we can get his character-development on the level of cap, IM, Thor, Hulk and whatnot.
The GA has seen clearly that Hawkeye is a part of Black Widow's story with not much depth to him. There's simply not enough time in any Avengers movie to explore him to the level of others. And that's okay, its for the best overall.

Quote:
Ha, Joss doesn't need to get better at writing. Joss is a Godsend to the MCu

Other characters shouldn't be treated the same way as hawkeye(or even bw as far as their character development.) I want the most developed characters in these movies so I can care about them as much as IM, Cap, Thor and even Hulk.

But if you're going to introduce a new character to the team without the help of a previous movie, that our other main avengers got, it isn't realistic to expect them to be on the same characteristically developed level as the others is all.

If you want a solution to that problem, not that i'd be for or against this, but I guess then they shouldn't introduce any new characters to the actual team until they get their own solo movies so they can be fully developed and actually have the next Avengers film to help their character grow upon which has already been laid out in a solo film.
Again, how does Black Widow fit into this paradigm, where characters Avengers development is a function of their solo movie development? Or did you mean appearing in Solo movies?

Regardless, it doesn't matter how many solo movies a character has, there's still only so much time available in the Avengers movies, so something has to give within those six characters (Cap,IM,Thor,Hulk,BW,Hawkeye) for anyone to get ANYextra screentime. So what's going to give? Who do you take screentime from, and how much to give to BP/AntMan/Wasp/MsMarvel/Vision/Dr.Strange?

I do see how my original question was not clear, but I think I'm getting at the issue more clearly now.

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You can introduce new characters with a minimal amount of time devoted to backstory and powers. Give audiences credit....they're not toddlers. You don't have to hold their hand to make them understand. Most audiences can "figure out" a character with just a few lines and even a single scene --- and that's true of any movie in any genre throughout film history, long as the writing's good. You don't need thirty minutes to show who Black Panther is, or what Ant-Man's powers are. Granted, *some* Avengers' origins have very convoluted backstories tied to their powers (Vision, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel), but even that could be altered and/or abridged to be a lot more concise.
Same question. Where does the time come from? And after you take the two-three minutes to introduce them, how much time do they get to develop relationships with their teammates? How much time do they get showing off their powers? And where does that time come from?

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Old 05-12-2012, 08:40 PM   #66
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I suppose if any of us knew the answer, we'd be the ones directing these movies and not debating about it on these boards.

I don't really know how you split it up, I suppose you can do a combination of making a longer movie with thinning out screen time of other characters but then it get's watered down.

Maybe it winds up being that as we get new characters in the MCU and they decide to write existing Avengers off the team, and bring in a new character to keep it at that magic 6 number.

Maybe at the same time have the character that was written off the team getting their own movie on their own adventure? It's clearly going to be the biggest hurdle for the Avengers franchise.

Maybe they'll throw caution to the wind and just give us epic 3hr 15 minute movies so they sacrifice as little screen time for the characters as possible.

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Old 05-13-2012, 12:00 AM   #67
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Hmmm... but Black Widow didn't have a film, and she got more development than Hulk who did. It's not a function of having solo films. Previous development gives you fewer directions you can go, not more. But on that note, Hawkeye was available to get the shaft in this way because he had no solo film, he was not a highly anticipated part of the film, it's not that he was somehow unable to handle lots of development (what new character is?), but he could be sacrificed, so to speak, without much outcry.

I personally think Hawkeye could have stood for a couple more minutes, enough to get his take on the events, give him a half a conversation with someone else, and another action moment, like a really crucial shot at the gateway or something like that. I suspect that couple minutes ended up on the cutting room floor. But it was 'okay' without that. It just made it seem like he wasn't capable of doing more than he did. Once he was out of arrows, he was out of the film.


But my point, again, is not that Hawkeye was short sticked, but that he was shortsticked by necessity, because you can only serve 5 and a half characters at the level that the Avengers operates at, regardless of any other factors, because of time. Unless you are ready to paint additional characters, including those already established to perform at Avengers-level, as Hawkeye-level in capability and depth, then you simply cannot add any more characters without taking some beloved, expected characters away.

The GA has seen clearly that Hawkeye is a part of Black Widow's story with not much depth to him. There's simply not enough time in any Avengers movie to explore him to the level of others. And that's okay, its for the best overall.

Again, how does Black Widow fit into this paradigm, where characters Avengers development is a function of their solo movie development? Or did you mean appearing in Solo movies?

Regardless, it doesn't matter how many solo movies a character has, there's still only so much time available in the Avengers movies, so something has to give within those six characters (Cap,IM,Thor,Hulk,BW,Hawkeye) for anyone to get ANYextra screentime. So what's going to give? Who do you take screentime from, and how much to give to BP/AntMan/Wasp/MsMarvel/Vision/Dr.Strange?

I do see how my original question was not clear, but I think I'm getting at the issue more clearly now.



Same question. Where does the time come from? And after you take the two-three minutes to introduce them, how much time do they get to develop relationships with their teammates? How much time do they get showing off their powers? And where does that time come from?
Simple: the "old timers" get less time on their backstory, because by now, EVERYBODY should damn well know who Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Hulk are. Therefore, you necessarily spend more time developing the new recruits, with the old-timers acting as mentors. Same way *any* series introduces new characters into a mix of existing characters.

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Old 05-13-2012, 01:00 AM   #68
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Any chance we can see Ms. Marvel in the future? She seems like one of the more well-known female Marvel superhero's, and she is hot.
Yeah and I would also like to see She Hulk and Spider-Woman. But I doubt we will see one of them in the next Avengers movie.

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Old 05-13-2012, 02:06 AM   #69
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Simple: the "old timers" get less time on their backstory, because by now, EVERYBODY should damn well know who Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Hulk are. Therefore, you necessarily spend more time developing the new recruits, with the old-timers acting as mentors. Same way *any* series introduces new characters into a mix of existing characters.
You know the old timers only got like a minute or two on their backstory. The rest was them being in the movie's current story, developing relationships, working on the crisis at hand. Is that what you're talking about having less of? Making the old timers mentors, with Nick Fury-sized screen time and letting new characters be the ones with relationships, solving problems, growing as characters, and all that stuff?

Differnet series deal with new characters differently. For series with small main casts, they just add a new main cast member for a film, since they don't have to maximize screen time to get everyone story and shine. (Star Wars, Harry Potter) For series with large casts, they usually kill one main character off to add another main cast member. (Lord of the Rings, Godfather).

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I suppose if any of us knew the answer, we'd be the ones directing these movies and not debating about it on these boards.

I don't really know how you split it up, I suppose you can do a combination of making a longer movie with thinning out screen time of other characters but then it get's watered down.

Maybe it winds up being that as we get new characters in the MCU and they decide to write existing Avengers off the team, and bring in a new character to keep it at that magic 6 number.

Maybe at the same time have the character that was written off the team getting their own movie on their own adventure? It's clearly going to be the biggest hurdle for the Avengers franchise.

Maybe they'll throw caution to the wind and just give us epic 3hr 15 minute movies so they sacrifice as little screen time for the characters as possible.
Well, I know we don't know for sure, but logically, we know a 3hr movie isn't a reasonable expectation, neither is thinning out screen time, and making a weaker less character-driven movie.

So that leaves getting rid of someone to add someone else to the team. Which is my original point, that's the only rational answer that's been discussed. They could do it where the character is away on their movie, but that only leaves Cap, IM and Thor... and they all need to be in TA2, don't they?

Can we at least admit that's a possibility? Yes there's a possibility they'll come up with a new way to balance screentime that's never been done before, but the likely answer, the one that makes the movie more dramatic and gripping and emotional, is that someone dies, rather than just being one-lined away, and somehow unavailable for this world-level threat, and forcing us to come up with *another* reason why they, or some other people, aren't in 3.

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Old 05-19-2012, 11:04 PM   #70
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If Marvel is going 'cosmic', then they have to have Ms. Marvel, Quasar or Nova.

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Old 05-19-2012, 11:18 PM   #71
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If Marvel is going 'cosmic', then they have to have Ms. Marvel, Quasar or Nova.
Question is, though, do you introduce the Kree --- and therefore Mar-Vell --- first? That's a lot to add to the MCU in the next couple of years....unless maybe we see them in GOTG....

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