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Old 09-02-2012, 10:41 AM   #376
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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Originally Posted by xeno000 View Post
I can't figure out why so many people are saying that none of the actresses up for a role can play Sharon.
I don't think anyone said that. What was said was that since none of them are Sharon's type, it's an indication they might not be casting Sharon.


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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
Indeed; though personally, I kind of hope that Natasha and Clint aren't in the Winter Soldier, because Steve already has Falcon and potentially Sharon Carter as his back up. If you add two more people, let alone two Avengers to the mix, the film could really come off as a quasi Avengers Film as opposed to a Solo CA film.
It might, but I think Cap works better as a leader than solo. For instance, what if it was like Cap's first movie except we gave a crap about the Howling Commandos? That'd be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Hawkingbird View Post
I'd say Widow is a key part of the Winter Soldier story line.
She could easily be one of the best parts, yeah.

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
I'm okay with Clint and Tasha attaching to the Cap mythos (assuming Scarjo and Renner are okay with it, which I'm betting no), and I'm okay with Cap's solo series being quasi-Avengers, since he's the leader and all...

...but. So far, the MCU has tried to remain fairly canonical to everyone's mythology, and Widow and Hawkeye are not part of that, except through Avengers. It'd make more sense for the Cap sequel to establish his canonical supporting cast, including any combination of Falcon, Sharon, Bucky, Fury, John Walker, Isaiah Bradley, Battlestar, and Diamondback.
Fans would like it, i don't know if it makes 'sense' to add additional similar characters rather than expand on the characters you already have. Of those other than the characters already in play, only Diamondback adds something new. Bucky can cover all the psuedo-Cap storylines. Falcon can cover all the sidekick/black guy storylines. And Scarljo and Renner have contracts, so they can't decide not to be in a movie. Not using them in Phase II would be a bit wasteful, I think. And they ain't gonna be in Thor 2 or IM 3 so...

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Old 09-02-2012, 09:48 PM   #377
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Scarljo and Renner have contracts, so they can't decide not to be in a movie. Not using them in Phase II would be a bit wasteful, I think. And they ain't gonna be in Thor 2 or IM 3 so...
But there *is* that ABC TV series Joss is producing about SHIELD, where they'd *definitely* fit....

Dunno if those multi-film contracts could cover TV appearances as well. Would be interesting to find out if Jackson, Smulders, Johansen and Renner might be contractually obligated to have at least cameo roles on the small screen.

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Old 09-03-2012, 04:02 AM   #378
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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Fans would like it, i don't know if it makes 'sense' to add additional similar characters rather than expand on the characters you already have. Of those other than the characters already in play, only Diamondback adds something new. Bucky can cover all the psuedo-Cap storylines. Falcon can cover all the sidekick/black guy storylines. And Scarljo and Renner have contracts, so they can't decide not to be in a movie. Not using them in Phase II would be a bit wasteful, I think. And they ain't gonna be in Thor 2 or IM 3 so...
I don't think Sharon and Natasha are really all that similar.

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Old 09-03-2012, 04:09 AM   #379
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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But there *is* that ABC TV series Joss is producing about SHIELD, where they'd *definitely* fit....

Dunno if those multi-film contracts could cover TV appearances as well. Would be interesting to find out if Jackson, Smulders, Johansen and Renner might be contractually obligated to have at least cameo roles on the small screen.
I think an x-picture deal means just that. But I think it could be negotiated for one or both of them to get out of doing one of those movie to doing 3 eps each season, or so.

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Old 09-03-2012, 10:03 AM   #380
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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I don't think Sharon and Natasha are really all that similar.
Their only dissimilarity is personality and color of their hair/uniforms. Other than that, they have the exact same skillset in the same organization and serve the exact same position in the organization and story. It doesn't help that they already have Maria Hill they had to pull back from the story. It doesn't help that if the SHIELD TV show is successful that will almost assuredly be yet another SHIELD female agent in the mix. Sharon is redundant, the only purpose she serves is making purists happy. She doesn't help develop the story or universe, it seems.

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Old 09-03-2012, 10:16 AM   #381
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Their only dissimilarity is personality
I find it strange you put that down as a minor element. . .

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Old 09-03-2012, 10:52 AM   #382
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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Their only dissimilarity is personality and color of their hair/uniforms.
Personality is enough to make neither redundant. Natasha has also never been romantically involved with Steve, despite numerous assertions. As for skillsets, Sharon is much closer to a female Fury than an American Black Widow.

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Old 09-03-2012, 11:10 PM   #383
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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Personality is enough to make neither redundant. Natasha has also never been romantically involved with Steve, despite numerous assertions. As for skillsets, Sharon is much closer to a female Fury than an American Black Widow.
Plus, one of the major differences in personality is the fact that Sharon is trustworthy and loyal, while Widow is unpredictable, unreliable, and is just as apt to betray you as she is to help you. Sharon is a nice girl, and Widow is a bad girl.

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Old 09-06-2012, 11:31 PM   #384
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

^We're talking about the MCU. Widow is trustworthy and loyal.

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I find it strange you put that down as a minor element. . .
I don't know if it's a minor element or not, it's just not big enough to differentiate characters in an ensemble. Like if War Machine was in Avengers, even a small role, now you've got two guys who are basically the same, only differentiated by personality and color. Same effect, same skillset, same abilities, just one is around less often. That's what we had with Black Widow and Maria Hill. Okay, now someone wants to add Iron Patriot to the mix. I'm gonna be like: "Uh, no... now it's just redundant." It'd be worse if they were the only three males in a 10 character franchise. That's my same reaction to adding Sharon.

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Personality is enough to make neither redundant. Natasha has also never been romantically involved with Steve, despite numerous assertions. As for skillsets, Sharon is much closer to a female Fury than an American Black Widow.
In a drama, yes, personality is enough. In an action movie... it's gotta be more. War Machine is just another Iron Man in this context. There's not a whole lot of difference between Fury and Widow in MCU afaik, one is in command, one is a field Agent. Shoot and sneak. Maybe Sharon's hand to hand skills are presumably rusty like Fury's?

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Old 09-07-2012, 01:08 AM   #385
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

Actually Black Widow was romantically involved with Steve Rogers/Cap in the Ultimate Avengers animated movies. Not the comics but still.

Not saying they should go that route but there is precedence for that.

Oh one other thing, James Rogers one of the Next Avengers is the son Steve and Natasha. James and the Next Avengers do appear in the comics at one point, so there is an alternate future where they apparently "get together," so there.

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Old 09-07-2012, 07:17 PM   #386
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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I don't think Sharon and Natasha are really all that similar.
Neither are Natasha and Maria Hill, however, because they are virtually identical in skillset, finding something for both of them to do takes some work. For Avengers, they simply had Maria occupied, ostensibly, with running SHIELD so she couldn't join them in the field. Adding Sharon to the MCU just makes more SHIELD agent juggling, imho, and there's nothing she action or story-wise does that Maria or Widow can't do. They could add Sharon, but it doesn't seem like the best thing for the story from here.

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Old 09-07-2012, 08:24 PM   #387
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

Well, who would you prefer to see as Cap's new love interest?

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Old 09-07-2012, 09:48 PM   #388
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

Diamondback, basically. Deception, betrayal, redemption, conflict, subtext, unique equipment, absence from Avengers 2 by nature, all that stuff.

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Old 09-07-2012, 11:53 PM   #389
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

I think when you already have Winter Soldier and Falcon you can't also include a character like Diamondback.

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Old 09-08-2012, 06:30 AM   #390
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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Actually Black Widow was romantically involved with Steve Rogers/Cap in the Ultimate Avengers animated movies. Not the comics but still.

Not saying they should go that route but there is precedence for that.

Oh one other thing, James Rogers one of the Next Avengers is the son Steve and Natasha. James and the Next Avengers do appear in the comics at one point, so there is an alternate future where they apparently "get together," so there.




While they look like an attractive pair, putting aside the differences in their characters alone...from what I had seen and read from reviews, most people who saw Chris and Scarlett acting as a couple in "The Nanny Diaries" didn't think that the two had any real chemistry as a on screen couple.

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Old 09-08-2012, 09:33 AM   #391
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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While they look like an attractive pair, putting aside the differences in their characters alone...from what I had seen and read from reviews, most people who saw Chris and Scarlett acting as a couple in "The Nanny Diaries" didn't think that the two had any real chemistry as a on screen couple.
I've never seen either of the two romantic movies that paired Chris and Scarlett, but IMDB says they're very close friends, so maybe they have a sister-brother type IRL relationship. Those kind of "best buds" offscreen relationships usually make for awkward chemistry onscreen, when the actors try to get all mushy-mushy.

But yeah, I believe onscreen chemistry is important, so whoever plays Sharon, I hope the sparks fly. On that note, maybe they could try to enlist Jessica Biel, whom Chris dated for 2 years in 05-06. Exes can usually make sparks fly on the set.

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:30 AM   #392
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

I don't really see much of a problem in putting Natasha and Sharon in the same film. I can certainly see an argument that would say using someone like Diamondback offers greater appeal to visuals and allows for more easily differentiated set pieces but I don't think it would be a bad idea or redundant to use Sharon and Natasha together.

Even from an action perspective, I think you can find ways to make both characters stand out. Really, I'd say it depends on the creativity of the writer/director in terms of how you stage an action set piece and how it fits into the film. In the Avengers, for example, I think both Cap and Natasha are in very similar positions in terms of how they could be used as both are grounded in a hand to hand/acrobatic combat style (they both do have individual weapons though that can be utilised). During the helicarrier siege, both characters are used differently and in unique ways that serve the action and the narrative and as such neither feel interchangeable. During the New York battle, Cap gets the moment with the police and the bank while Natasha has the glider theft, which also shows similar (the same?) skills used in interesting scenarios.

If an argument was to be made for including Diamondback over Sharon, I would actually lean heavily on the personality aspect. I'm not widely read but in Brubaker's Cap and Secret Avengers comics, I've never felt Sharon to have much of a character beyond expository purposes. I'm happy to be slapped with other stories though that make her seem more than just an interchangeable SHIELD agent that looks like Peggy.

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:37 AM   #393
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

But who's even saying anything about putting Widow and Sharon in the same movie?

Cap's supporting cast is Sharon and Falcon. The idea of Widow being in this movie is, at this point, nothing but fan speculation. Might just stay that way.

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:46 AM   #394
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But who's even saying anything about putting Widow and Sharon in the same movie?

Cap's supporting cast is Sharon and Falcon. The idea of Widow being in this movie is, at this point, nothing but fan speculation. Might just stay that way.
The comment is in response to the idea that one makes the other redundant and that it introduces problems. The discussion of which makes up a fair bit of this (or is it now the previous?) page. I have no clue whatsoever about whether Natasha will be seen in this film, I'm not convinced there's any real evidence to support or deny the claim but I still thought I'd throw my opinion into the discussion.

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #395
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

I know, that was more of a general response to the entire conversation. Didn't mean for it to seem to be directed squarely at your comment, sorry

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #396
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But who's even saying anything about putting Widow and Sharon in the same movie?

Cap's supporting cast is Sharon and Falcon. The idea of Widow being in this movie is, at this point, nothing but fan speculation. Might just stay that way.
It's a rumor originating from some podcast, of which some turned out to be true, though what did wouldn't have been hard to guess.

Something else to consider is how those elements will collide. Many seem to think Clint and Natasha will be members of Cap's team as a sort of new Howling Commandos, but it could be that Natasha is in flashbacks about Bucky, or she's working against Cap trying to hide something for SHIELD or for herself.

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:05 AM   #397
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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In a drama, yes, personality is enough. In an action movie... it's gotta be more. War Machine is just another Iron Man in this context. There's not a whole lot of difference between Fury and Widow in MCU afaik, one is in command, one is a field Agent. Shoot and sneak. Maybe Sharon's hand to hand skills are presumably rusty like Fury's?
I disagree. When a character is discussed in a review, the characters actions and interactions are the ones discussed, not their methods.

But even so, Sharon is more the soldier type. Her early stories had her going undercover in various villain organizations, but of late she's been of the black ops type of spy.

So while Natasha can seduce a target to get him drunk and then steal his keys to gain access to his files, Sharon is more likely to sneak into a high-tech fortress and crack the safe.

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:07 PM   #398
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

Anna Kendrick's gonna do a bunch of interviews at TIFF tomorrow so expect some non-answers about Cap

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Old 09-09-2012, 03:40 AM   #399
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

I was watching Anna Kendrick the other day. Definitely not a Sharon. I suppose theoretically she could be, but it seems unlikely. Quite unlikely, imho.

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I disagree. When a character is discussed in a review, the characters actions and interactions are the ones discussed, not their methods.

But even so, Sharon is more the soldier type. Her early stories had her going undercover in various villain organizations, but of late she's been of the black ops type of spy.

So while Natasha can seduce a target to get him drunk and then steal his keys to gain access to his files, Sharon is more likely to sneak into a high-tech fortress and crack the safe.
I think those kind of granular specialties work much better in long form, like a comic book series or TV show, rather than over the course of a two hour movie. A world class master assassin spy character in a film that cannot both sneak and get someone drunk seems really inept to me. I think when professional reviews do evaluate characters, they also evaluate the supporting cast as a whole, if it is pointless and there are characters that aren't given much to do, that's pointed out. It may not be realized or pointed out that it's because the characters are redundant, but the end effect of redundancies is a notable issue.

On Chewy's comment, I guess my thought is that if Sharon is indeed the female lead, she will still be involved with SHIELD circa Avengers 2, bringing the women heroic characters to 3 world class spies. In addition to Widow and even Hill possibly appearing in Cap.

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Old 09-09-2012, 05:37 AM   #400
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Default Re: Love Interest for Captain America II

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I think those kind of granular specialties work much better in long form, like a comic book series or TV show, rather than over the course of a two hour movie. A world class master assassin spy character in a film that cannot both sneak and get someone drunk seems really inept to me. I think when professional reviews do evaluate characters, they also evaluate the supporting cast as a whole, if it is pointless and there are characters that aren't given much to do, that's pointed out. It may not be realized or pointed out that it's because the characters are redundant, but the end effect of redundancies is a notable issue.

On Chewy's comment, I guess my thought is that if Sharon is indeed the female lead, she will still be involved with SHIELD circa Avengers 2, bringing the women heroic characters to 3 world class spies. In addition to Widow and even Hill possibly appearing in Cap.
Honestly, I'm not sure what the overall issue is.

Is that that Sharon has a similar skillset to Natasha, or is it that there'll be two characters with similar skillsets in Captain America 2?


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