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Old 05-13-2012, 09:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

I love how you described the episode

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Old 05-13-2012, 10:11 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

First off,and everyone's knows this,I view Venom as Eddie Brock. I'm not too fond of the symbiote going from host to host and while I think the final version of "Venom" looked good,I hated that damn 20 ft. long tongue crap!! Enough of Venom with the long tongue!!
Now,with that out of the way,I agree with alot of what you guys are saying. What bothers me most is the juvenille humor. Spidey never seems to take anything seriously and seems like quite an idiot most of the time. I've just kinda had it with this series.

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Old 05-14-2012, 08:06 AM   #28
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

A Review of yesterday's episode with a well deserved score:

Score: 2.5/10

Check it out:

http://www.marveltvnews.com/2012/05/...back-in-black/



LOL

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Old 05-14-2012, 10:58 AM   #29
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

wtf is up with THAT?!?...

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Old 05-14-2012, 12:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Yeah, that temporarry is a spambot, ignore what it says

Spider-Man didn't seem stupid in this episode, and he caused far less damage than he usually does
The symbiote wrist container = Spider-Man Unlimited wrist costume container
BTW, I still don't care for Eddie Brock, so no problem in Harry being Venom

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Old 05-14-2012, 02:05 PM   #31
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Been watching this show for a while now just in the hopes that it will become better. But MAN is this show BAD!

The worst part is they took away everything that makes Spider-Man the character he is. Instead he becomes a rash, hot headed, idiot who half his team thinks is insane (and rightly so).

Character motivation is almost never present, close to NO Spidey villain with exception to Venom who has been poorly mishandled. #1 issue was making him grown out of Peter's right buttocks. #2 was wrecking harry by having him become an alternate Spider-Man and by extension Venom.

Whether you like Eddie Brock or not (I've personally been a fan) this new direction has a worse effect by screwing up BOTH Venom and Harry.

This show has now pretty much become my own personal stress ball. Gives me something to target my anger and frustration at. Maybe that's the only reason I'm still watching.

Bring back Spectacular Spider-Man (or a show similar to it) and ditch this crap. After Spider-Man the Animated Series, Spider-Man MTV, and Spectacular Spider-Man, you'd think the makers would know what their fan base wants from this character.

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by THUNDERSTRIKE View Post
and Loeb wants to kill off Avengers EMH in exchange for a dumbed-down version of the Avengers along the lines of the Ultimate Spidey show...

as you said, go figure...

when Avengers EMH finally signs off, the Sunday Marvel Universe block, Ultimate Spidey and Jeph Loeb can kiss my ass... as well as those annoyingly moronic Marvel Mashups...
**** Jeph Loeb.
Seriously, **** him. This new USM show is utterly terrible, and AEMH is one of the best damn cartoons from the past decade. They cancel it I will go ballistic.

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Old 05-15-2012, 01:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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Bring back Spectacular Spider-Man (or a show similar to it) and ditch this crap. After Spider-Man the Animated Series, Spider-Man MTV, and Spectacular Spider-Man, you'd think the makers would know what their fan base wants from this character.
I welcome this like I welcome you
BTW, good to see another fan of the MTV series

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Originally Posted by Lunar_Wolf View Post
-Cutaways to stupid gags are too much in this episode. Peter imaging what it would be like if everyone knew who he was is not even a serious matter.
But that is something they got right
Quote:
-Did we even get a name for this purple gargoyle thing yet?
Dragon Man? Not in this episode
Quote:
-Someone sew Parkers mouth, please!
When Spidey hits Oscorp's window? Yes

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Old 05-15-2012, 01:39 AM   #34
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

I can't believe I have actually withstood 8 entire episodes of "ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN" so soon. At any rate, this episode is "BACK IN BLACK", and while the show continues in a bit of an upswing compared to the first couple of episodes, the quality dips down a little into more annoyance factor this week. The hand-held camera gimmick of "EXCLUSIVE" actually prevented the show from cutting away to annoying Spider-Narration or deformed animated antics, which made it a better episode. Apparently, the producers of the show do not realize that what is killing this show and what makes it a chore to watch isn't a strength, so it is here to stay. This episode sees the return of Venom, who is the second villain to reoccur in this show (after 75% of the Frightful Four in the first two episodes), and this time is somewhat more stable.

Now, Venom has long posed a dilemma for adaptations as well as comic book writers. Many of them like the visual of Venom, and the fact that he's Spidey's opposite match motivated by revenge. Where many disagree is the worth of his alter-ego, Eddie Brock. Some see him as a useful lunatic, others as retconed anti-hero, and others see him as a blank slate character. Some Spider-Man shows have attempted to make Brock a supporting cast member from the pilot, so his transformation into Venom in the first season appears more organic; "SPIDER-MAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES" did that in the 90's, and "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" did it better in 2007. Other shows simply see Venom as a distinctive monster, as "SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED" (circa 1999) did. This show has run with Venom as being the name of the symbiote organism itself and not name it's host chooses. It also seems to be running with the idea that the "sludge" is itself Venom, and it merely hops across hosts like the One Ring and corrupts all of them and acts through them. This in and of itself isn't itself a horrible way to re-imagine Venom without wishing to include the Eddie Brock character. The problem with this episode is that it distracts itself from what could have been proper suspense with the usual insipid antics and desperate humor.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
In this episode, Peter Parker has a cold, requiring Drake Bell to pinch his nose in the recording booth for a week or however long it took. It seems every Spider-Man cartoon has the angle of him having a cold for one episode - even going back to his NBC syndicated show from 1981. Heck, even the live action show on CBS from 1977-1979 once had Spidey being allergic to tobacco and going into a sneezing fit (!) be a key detail for an episode. Unfortunately, because this show is written by adults who believe kids are crude, a lot of humor relies on gross out mucus bits. While Peter himself is on the mend from his cold and repulsing everyone around him, a new Spider-Man in a black costume has apparently arisen to replace him. The city, even J.J., all seem to adore this new version instantly - which is either crude storytelling or a homage to the popularity the suit has in real life. Now, many episodes have suffered from Spider-Man appearing to be a dullard for laughs; this episode does the reverse. Spidey very clearly realizes the "black costume" looks exactly like Venom from "VENOM" who all of his SHIELD buddies fought on the roof of the Osborn residence. However, it is their turn to be clueless and not a one of them recognize it even though the white spider symbol is a dead giveaway. Absolutely none of them even consider that the "sludge" could have simply returned or reformed, or another one could have replaced it. In other words, this show only makes Spidey appear smart by making other characters dumber than he is. Spidey has no clue who the new version is, and "Black Spider-Man" shows off his mettle by pummeling Dragon Man (of all villains) repeatedly. Turns out this new hero is Harry Osborn, who is utilizing some wrist gadget ripped right from "BEN 10" (who the MAN OF AVERAGE team of writers created) to seemingly control the symbiote to operate at his whim.

Probably the most galling sequence is Peter Parker harping on about a secret identity being crucial not to protect his loved ones, but to have them avoid being hassled at movie theaters as well as Peter's fear that his classmates would all laugh at him anyway. This is perhaps the most immature explanation for a superhero secret identity I have ever seen in any medium. It reached a level beyond desperate humor and bordered on an insult to the franchise itself, which I didn't think could be insulted any further given all the ridiculous stuff which has been done to or with Spidey over the years. I am starting to wonder if the whole "great power, great responsibility" motive for becoming a superhero is even in character for this version of Parker, or if it he is only Spidey because of franchise obligation.

There are hints of a decent episode here. It is a plot point that Harry Osborn immediately takes Peter aside to reveal his identity to him as a hero because they're best friends, which is something Peter himself doesn't entrust in Harry or anyone who isn't a SHIELD hero, or SHIELD agent, or Iron Man. The bit where Harry wants to please his father as well as his loss of control and having to fight Spidey are in theory potentially interesting bits. The problem is as it always is - the show does not allow any moment to stand for itself without going for some cheap and desperate laugh. At this point I realize maybe the zany humor is a smokescreen to hide how thuddingly mediocre this show is, which is often what "TEEN TITANS" did. The difference was that "TEEN TITANS" was genuinely funny at a higher ratio than this show is. As an example, there is a fantasy sequence in which Peter imagines the origin of his imposter hero, which isn't too bad. The problem? It is immediately followed by two more sequences, as if the writer was so desperate that one punchline wasn't enough, he/she added two more. I won't even mention sequences such as Spider-Man showing little concern with pummeling Venom with Harry inside and only cartoon logic preventing Harry from being hurt at all.

For a bit of history, last week's episode "EXCLUSIVE" was literally the first time Spider-Man and the Hulk have shared a TV episode together since "SPIDEY GOES HOLLYWOOD" from the first season of "SPIDER-MAN & HIS AMAZING FRIENDS" aired on NBC in the fall of 1981. In many ways this show wants so desperately to be a modern remake of a show like that, same as "BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD" wanted to be a hipper remake of "SUPERFRIENDS". However, "SPIDER-MAN & HIS AMAZING FRIENDS" was a show made in a more restrictive era which occasionally rose above those limitations to try for things greater and deeper. This show, by contrast, is being made in an era where censorship of cartoons is less and audiences' expectations of them have been expanded thanks to classics such as "BATMAN: TAS", some of Marvel's last efforts and yes, even "TSSM" and it deliberately chooses to be banal, crude, pandering, and desperate. Spidey makes a joke about his own insecurity in this episode, but this entire show seems to be produced by people who appear so insecure that they cannot let any work stand for itself without more distractions than a casino - perhaps because they realize this show is more of a corporate exercise (Disney's Spidey, Disney's way) than it is anything truly innovative. Without all of the desperate humor and intelligence sapping stunts, the series would be fairly generic - but even that might be less annoying.


"BACK IN BLACK" is a step back in quality from last week as the producers of this show see the bane of its existence as a strength. Nothing horrible, and a better appearance by Venom than his last, but wasted potential always sucks. I imagine fans must be feeling very bitter that this is probably the most faithful Venom character model any animated series has had, and it is wasted on this dross. My issue isn't that this is a show which seeks to be lighter and sillier; my issue is that it does such a thing so poorly, while also attempting suspenseful bits alongside it which don't match. If Two-Face wrote a sitcom, I can't imagine it being more of a contrast with itself than this show seems to be. The skill that it takes to weave both humor and suspense alongside each other is a skill these writers and producers mostly lack on this project, to put it simply.

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Old 05-15-2012, 04:45 AM   #35
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Joe Quesada on Ultimate Spider-man hate and season 2:

http://www.marveltvnews.com/2012/05/...-cartoon-hate/

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Old 05-15-2012, 07:32 AM   #36
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Just a simple generic and disrespectful answer as expected.

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Old 05-15-2012, 07:49 AM   #37
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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Just a simple generic and disrespectful answer as expected.
Joe Quesadilla has ALWAYS been a disrespectful d**kh**d, iMho...

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Old 05-15-2012, 07:58 AM   #38
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

A rumor regarding ratings of the show, season 2 as well as scary rumors on Hulk and the agents of smash

http://www.marveltvnews.com/2012/05/...f-s-m-a-s-h-2/

Frankly, i am not shocked to read this.

I mean what do you expect from the people who made this show. It is also interested that they mention Dini not quite happy with the end result. Let's see what happens next.

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Old 05-15-2012, 08:06 AM   #39
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Quote:
- Jeph Loeb is definitely one of the main guys who is pushing for the tone of the show. According to Agent X, Jeph wants Marvel Cartoons to prepare the youglings to be future Marvel comics fans, and he insisted on having all the Marvel cartons (Ultimate Spider-man, Hulk agents of SMASH, and the second half season of Avengers EMH) with no over reaching story, no 2 or 3 episodes parters, and no continuity.
This gives me headaches. So all the cartoons in the past, did nothing to interest kids to pick up some Marvel comic?. Instead it requires trash like USM and the upcoming Hulk Agents of Smash, to get children interested into Marvel comics? But if they happen to actually like this brain dead humor, won't they then be disappointed with the comics that are nothing like that? Unless they buy those horrible tie-in comics.

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Old 05-15-2012, 08:11 AM   #40
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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A rumor regarding ratings of the show, season 2 as well as scary rumors on Hulk and the agents of smash

http://www.marveltvnews.com/2012/05/...f-s-m-a-s-h-2/

Frankly, i am not shocked to read this.

I mean what do you expect from the people who made this show. It is also interested that they mention Dini not quite happy with the end result. Let's see what happens next.

every so often, Avengers EMH will be put on a short hiatus?...

THAT'S not sounding good at all... it's bad enough it's getting s**tcanned, but now they want to stretch it out and interrupt the flow of the continuing Skrull/Kree storyline with breaks?...

it's almost like they want the hardcore mature Avengers viewers to forget about the show as it goes on occasional hiatus and thereby possibly lose interest in it or just plain forget that it's on or WHEN it's on... sounds like the PTB want the show to quietly fade away into obscurity...

this then sounds like the future of Marvel animateds, dumbed-down and for the kiddie crowd...

Loeb... ANOTHER d**kh**d...

time to bail, Dini...


Last edited by THUNDERSTRIKE; 05-15-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:31 AM   #41
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Quote:
This gives me headaches. So all the cartoons in the past, did nothing to interest kids to pick up some Marvel comic?. Instead it requires trash like USM and the upcoming Hulk Agents of Smash, to get children interested into Marvel comics? But if they happen to actually like this brain dead humor, won't they then be disappointed with the comics that are nothing like that? Unless they buy those horrible tie-in comics.
That really is infuriating. I remember watching the 90s shows when I was 10 or so and I remember loving the idea of the loose continuity between X-Men, STAS, F4, and Iron Man because it challenged me and gave me something to think about. Why do they assume that kids do not want to be intellectually challenged? I loved following the storylines even though it became difficult because networks would change the times that the show would air.

The problem with the logic that new viewers will be lost with season-long arcs is that we are no longer in the 90s. That may have been a problem then, but today if someone happens to flip on A:EMH and stays to watch and enjoys the show, it is just a matter of clicks and time to catch up on what they missed either on Youtube or Netflix. What I don't understand is how Marvel can be so smart from a film division perspective but continually drop the ball on the TV side.


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Old 05-15-2012, 11:52 AM   #42
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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That really is infuriating. I remember watching the 90s shows when I was 10 or so and I remember loving the idea of the loose continuity between X-Men, STAS, F4, and Iron Man because it challenged me and gave me something to think about. Why do they assume that kids do not want to be intellectually challenged? I loved following the storylines even though it became difficult because networks would change the times that the show would air.

The problem with the logic that new viewers will be lost with season-long arcs is that we are no longer in the 90s. That may have been a problem then, but today if someone happens to flip on A:EMH and stays to watch and enjoys the show, it is just a matter of clicks and time to catch up on what they missed either on Youtube or Netflix. What I don't understand is how Marvel can be so smart from a film division perspective but continually drop the ball on the TV side.
Marvel's movie division and Marvel's TV division are run by entirely different people who have zero influence on each other.

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Some of these moron producers need to take a look at Legend of Korra's ratings and realize that their audience isn't as stupid as they seem to think. Korra has a mature story, great animation, and overarcing plot and kids of all ages still tune into it.

No one wants to watch the story of an obnoxious teenager turned superhero who learns nothing, a story that goes nowhere, and animatics that talk to you like you're a five year old.

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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Some of these moron producers need to take a look at Legend of Korra's ratings and realize that their audience isn't as stupid as they seem to think. Korra has a mature story, great animation, and overarcing plot and kids of all ages still tune into it.

No one wants to watch the story of an obnoxious teenager turned superhero who learns nothing, a story that goes nowhere, and animatics that talk to you like you're a five year old.
that says it all... thank you...

*high-fives*

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Old 05-15-2012, 01:49 PM   #45
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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Some of these moron producers need to take a look at Legend of Korra's ratings and realize that their audience isn't as stupid as they seem to think. Korra has a mature story, great animation, and overarcing plot and kids of all ages still tune into it.

No one wants to watch the story of an obnoxious teenager turned superhero who learns nothing, a story that goes nowhere, and animatics that talk to you like you're a five year old.
Yeah, well said.

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Old 05-15-2012, 04:36 PM   #46
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

Paul Dini is on Kevin Smith's latest podcast. The entire episode was about him working on Batman. Dini got choked up twice talking about the show and how passionate people were when making it. He made a note how studios today would never make a show like Batman again and want to moreless dumb down shows for kids.


Quote:
- Jeph Loeb is definitely one of the main guys who is pushing for the tone of the show. According to Agent X, Jeph wants Marvel Cartoons to prepare the youglings to be future Marvel comics fans, and he insisted on having all the Marvel cartons (Ultimate Spider-man, Hulk agents of SMASH, and the second half season of Avengers EMH) with no over reaching story, no 2 or 3 episodes parters, and no continuity
Loeb is a ****ing idiot.

Quote:
- Hulk Agents of SMASH can be described as a mindless action show, with no character development and no intelligent stories.
A show I won't be watching. Man, if I didn't love Spider-Man so much I would have switched off a long time ago


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Old 05-15-2012, 05:57 PM   #47
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

I really wanna punch him in the jugular.

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Old 05-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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Just a simple generic and disrespectful answer as expected.
Uhh, to be perfectly honest, I think that the constant pestering him about the issue was far more disrespectful. In fact, I thought his answer was quite diplomatic. This Marvel TV News website doesn't seem to be very reputable, and is probably hurting its own cause more than helping it.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:16 PM   #49
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

I don't understand any of the criticism you guys have on the Ultimate Spider-Man show... it's a GOOD show.

People have a problem with the tone? What's AWFUL is a show that takes itself way too seriously. This show does not and is smart about it at the very least. The character talking to the audience is no different than Spider-Man's thought bubbles through years of Spider-Man comics.

The characters look just like Bagely's art from the USM comics. They also have JK Simmons as J Jonah Jameson... how awesome is that?

When people hate on this show all I see is geeky comic book fan criticisms. People are taking it too seriously and can't just enjoy it for what it is. Christopher Nolan can't create every comic book adaption. I'm pretty sure Marvel sees things the same way too. People are WATCHING this show and most likely will continue to watch.

I personally think this is the best Spider-Man show since 90's Spider-Man. MTV Spider-Man was awful with horrible writing and Spectacular Spider-Man had art so bad a high school student could draw a better cast.

The tone of USM puts Spider-Man in line with the current movie universe than anything else.

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Old 05-15-2012, 10:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: Ultimate Spider-Man animated series discussion thread - Part 1

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I don't understand any of the criticism you guys have on the Ultimate Spider-Man show... it's a GOOD show.

People have a problem with the tone? What's AWFUL is a show that takes itself way too seriously. This show does not and is smart about it at the very least. The character talking to the audience is no different than Spider-Man's thought bubbles through years of Spider-Man comics.

The characters look just like Bagely's art from the USM comics. They also have JK Simmons as J Jonah Jameson... how awesome is that?

When people hate on this show all I see is geeky comic book fan criticisms. People are taking it too seriously and can't just enjoy it for what it is. Christopher Nolan can't create every comic book adaption. I'm pretty sure Marvel sees things the same way too. People are WATCHING this show and most likely will continue to watch.

I personally think this is the best Spider-Man show since 90's Spider-Man. MTV Spider-Man was awful with horrible writing and Spectacular Spider-Man had art so bad a high school student could draw a better cast.

The tone of USM puts Spider-Man in line with the current movie universe than anything else.

Not sure if your trolling here but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Batman the Animated Series took itself VERY seriously and it is not only considered by most TV/film critics to be the best comic book cartoon but by many standards the best american action cartoon.

Also Spider-Man was NEVER known for breaking the fourth wall. His thought bubbles were purely internalizations of circumstances. His own analysis combined with it being used as a gimmick in the early years of comics to get across ideas that could not be fully presented just by artwork. Almost every comic character used this device.

And for the love of god don't give them the idea to use this horrendous idea for future Marvel adaptions!

My main issue in the series (though I have many many) is that Spider-Man is not....Spider-Man.

Rash. Hot headed. Ignorant. Egotistical/Narcissistic. None of these words describe the Spider-Man I grew up with, love, and know. All of them describe this Ultimate Spider-Man.

He is unlikable and resembles nothing of the boy who had to quickly grow up, learn responsibility, and then juggle the problems of being a superhero with his teenage life. That is the charm of Spider-Man. It does not exist here.

As much as I think the artwork and animation of the series is very fluid and pretty, the simple fact is the storytelling is not here and after 9 (soon to be 11) episodes there has only been one Spider-Man villain (badly portrayed I might add), the rest promoting other marvel characters.

This is one of the most abusive uses of a flagship character I have ever seen. He has now become a commercial poster board to slap advertisements for lesser known properties that the "kiddies" might not know yet.

And no. Most people are not watching it. Majority of response towards it has been negative and the lack of rating boasting (which successful shows LOVE to do) as been entirely absent. In fact they have refused to show any at all.

Bottom line. This is not a Spider-Man cartoon at all. It just has a character that looks like him.

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