2012 Presidential Election (87 days and counting...)

[Hawkingbird]

Well I'm Labour here left wing. I do NOT like the Conservatives. But poor Ed isn't exactly the leader type...

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by enterthemadness

He is likely to still be on all 50 states ballot, it's a 3 way race, by that definition.

With your logic you may as well include the nominees for the Constitution and Green Parties. Along with the Libertarians, they typically make the ballots on almost all the states.

It doesn't change the fact that third parties, even when they have access to ballots on almost all the states do not get over 1% of the vote.

[Kelly]

We will have the Communist Party on some ballots....unless you are a Ross Perot, which Johnson is FAAAAAAAAAR from that, he won't be much of a factor. Ross Perot is the most viable 3rd party candidate we've ever had.....far above even Nader.

[SV Fan]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Ross Perot is the most viable 3rd party candidate we've ever had.....far above even Nader.

The only reason Ross Perot was considered viable was because he bankrolled his own campaign to the tune of 60M, sadly that is the only way a 3rd party will be able to get their name in the ring($$$$$$$) no matter how good or bad their policies are

[Kelly]

He got his message out there....did he have the money to do that? Yes, but the key was he got his message out there....he got on the debates, and got his message out there.....

So, I agree with you, but under your assumption, its like he went door to door and handed $100 to people and said "vote for me".

That's not what happened, he had the money to get his message on the media, and it worked.....to the tune of a double digit voter %.

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by Kelly

We will have the Communist Party on some ballots....unless you are a Ross Perot, which Johnson is FAAAAAAAAAR from that, he won't be much of a factor. Ross Perot is the most viable 3rd party candidate we've ever had.....far above even Nader.

Teddy Roosevelt. He actually finished second in both the Electoral Collage and popular vote, ahead of the Republicans.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Kahran Ramsus

Teddy Roosevelt. He actually finished second in both the Electoral Collage and popular vote, ahead of the Republicans.

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Teddy Roosevelt ran as a third party candidate in the 1912 election and ended up finishing second to the Democrats and Woodrow Wilson. The incumbent President William Howard Taft finished third.

That was the closest a third party candidate ever came. The last time a third party candidate actually won some states was George Wallace in 1968. Perot did the best since 1968, but he wasn't the best ever. Roosevelt was.

[Kelly]

He isn't exactly a good example, considering he had already been President....that is apples and oranges....

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, Teddy already had the exposure necessary to be seriously considered. Ross Perot on the other hand, had to work really hard to get seriously considered.

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

Yeah, Teddy already had the exposure necessary to be seriously considered. Ross Perot on the other hand, had to work really hard to get seriously considered.

True, but I was just stating facts.

The initial point by Kelly was correct. Third party candidates like Perot are the exception. Johnson is not going to be a Perot.

[hippie_hunter]

Not the Presidential election, but a pretty good analysis on what to expect with the Congressional races

http://www.nationaljournal.com/colum...e-bye-20120621

[DACrowe]

I flipped by Fox News and saw Dick Morris fuming with Sean Hannity about how healthcare/Obamacare is now the centerpiece issue of the 2012 election. They're both saying that Romney should make this the main focus of the "choice election" and that the economy is in the background to this.

Now, I know they're just spewing red meat BS for a target audience of people who are likely severely pissed off right now. But still, I can't help but wonder if they really think it's a good idea. By making a strong push over healthcare in not just the GOP base, but mainstream, they're going to have to bring up Romney passed a near-identical law in Massachusetts complete with an individual mandate and let Obama talk about all the good things in the law that Romney promises to repeal and somehow replace with the exact same goodies.

I say go for it, but I'm sure the actual campaign staff knows better. One would think.

[The Strategos]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

Well I'm Labour here left wing. I do NOT like the Conservatives. But poor Ed isn't exactly the leader type...

Hi Hawkingbird, signiture is Astinishing X-Men, Giften story arc, written by Joss Whedon and spoken by Emma Frost in the danger room after Scott and Wolverine had a little, ahem, rumble in th jungle, isn't it? Politics wise I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of all the main parties but I reserve a special dissfavour for the labour party becasue I personnally find them to the the worst demagogues and biggest hippocrits. I'm either voting Green or UKIP next election !

[SuperT]

I really do hope Romney makes Healthcare his centerpiece when attacking Obama. It'll backfire in his face so hard.

[The Strategos]

I hope Obama wins. BTW, does anybody have an opinion on whether Captain America is a Republican of a Democrat. I'm going to say...Democrat but with Republican leanings.

[hippie_hunter]

Despite the fact that I'm a Republican, I have to say that Captain America is a New Deal Democrat, a concept that was really cemented IMO during the Brubaker era.

[DACrowe]

Superhero politics?

If I had to guess Cap is a New Deal-era Democrat (protect the little guy, do the right thing for the social good, fight the Nazis, etc.). Iron Man is probably a moderate Republican because he started as a neocon war monger, but is now against the "nuclear deterrent" ideology and supports free cheap energy. So, he likes private business but thinks the social issues and schadenfreude of the modern Republican party is crazy.

Those are the only two I can think of off the top of my head who could have political leanings. Banner's on the run too much, Peter Parker and Bruce Wayne seem strangely apolitical and...yeah.

I spent enough time in the last minute thinking about this.

[The Strategos]

Cyclops and Wolverine are Republicans methinks, as is Ms Marvel. I think Thor if he was interested would be a Democrat, while critising the Democratic process and suggesting a good king would be in order :lol: !

[Thundercrack85]

Bruce Wayne seems like a Rockefeller Republican. He's old money, but cares about social issues.

Superman is obviously a bleeding heart liberal, since he's part of the mainstream media. Spider-man is probably a Democrat.

Tony Stark is kind of tricky. Maybe a moderate Republican.

[Matt]

What an odd discussion topic. Cap is definitely a New Deal Democrat. Though the modern Democratic Party probably wouldn't appeal to him. Too anti-intervention and the social issues of the day that they support would probably weird him out (much as they do most members of the Greatest Generation).

Superman, raised by Kansas farmers, very old school, classic values. Very middle America....hard to see him as a Democrat, probably a moderate Republican, Lois Lane on the other hand is probably a hardcore D.

Bruce Wayne I would see as a registered Democrat, almost along the lines of Warren Buffet. He is a strong believer in social programs, domestic job creation, the wealthy holding a greater obligation to society due to the opportunities that society has afforded them, etc. That said, like Buffet he probably remains apolitical, giving donations based on candidate rather than party and only being outspoken about his politics in very special circumstances such as Lex Luthor running for president (much like Buffet has given donations to both Schwarzenegger and Obama but only formally spoke out for Obama and has been reluctant to endorse in past races).

Tony Stark is undoubtedly Republican.

Peter Parker, middle class kid from Queens, he is undoubtedly Democrat.

DareDevil is also probably a bleeding heart liberal.

[Thundercrack85]

Is it? We are in the politics section of a forum about superheroes. Surprised it hasn't come up, really.

Superman may have been raised in conservative Kansas, but he did move to the DC equivalent of New York City, and become a reporter for a major metropolitan newspaper. Plus all the social issues he used to tackle.

On the other hand, Lois Lane was raised by a hawkish army general. Not that I can imagine her as a Republican.

Lex Luthor is surprisingly tricky. I would say Republican, but then there's the cloning. Of course they'd make him an independent, since they don't want to offend anyone.

[hippie_hunter]

- Superman is a borderline socialist.

- Spider-Man was originally an Objectivist. Steve Ditko originally envisioned himself as Peter Parker and put his personality into the character. When Ditko had more control of the character Spider-Man was originally much more right winged, even criticizing Vietnam War protesters. But when Stan Lee took more influence on the character he became much more in line with the current progressive interpretation.

- Batman is the epitomy of libertarian superheroics. He's essentially if John Galt had a love child with Clint Eastwood (another libertarian icon). He's extremely distrustful of government and government institutions, under the Luthor Administration he had Wayne Enterprises cancel all contracts with the Federal government. And add in the fact that he uses his own money (and tries to get other wealthy citizens of Gotham to get involved) to revitalize Gotham, not using government money. Wayne has formed his private security company Batman, Incorporated. And he's a big supporter of the Second Amendment.

- Bendis' run on Daredevil had the Democratic Party go up to Matt Murdock to convince him to run for mayor. And I think they confirmed that he's a registered Democrat.

- Tony Stark is a neo-conservative. At least on the economic and foreign policy levels. Hell, the man authorized S.H.I.E.L.D.'s involvement with the invasion of Atlantis to give the impending American attack on it international legitimacy.

[SV Fan]

The Hulk would be an anarchist

Not sure if Thor is more for a Monarchy or Green Party. lol

[DACrowe]

Yeah, actually the more I just thought about it, Batman is probably a liberal. I don't know if he'd be part of any political party and would vote and throw fundraisers for candidates he likes, regardless of party, but nationally he's more inclined to agree with Democrats. He believes in social responsibility and that the rich, like himself, have a duty to improve the lives of the poor and unfortunate and that in a society that it is their duty to provide a social safety net for the downtrodden and those who suffer at the bottom of a community--probably from his very New Deal-esque father's values. But, on matters of local politics he can be more conservative. I think he'd probably believe in more robust law enforcement and the right of authority in the pretense of security over the rights of the individual. Probably why he loved Harvey Dent when he was DA. That said, Frank Miller's Batman is a hardcore far, far, far-right fringe conservative, if not an outright fascist.

Peter Parker just doesn't strike me as someone who pays attention to politics. He's too into his personal life and too "everyman" for that. But given he's from Queens, he's probably a registered Democrat and as a New Yorker would be disgusted by the Republicans' social platforms (anti-gay, anti-hispanic, anti-Muslim anti-youth, anti-minority).

Superman was raised in Kansas with good midwestern values. He's a Republican probably right down to believing marriage should be between one alien and one woman .

Daredevil doesn't believe in the death penalty, takes pro bono cases for poor people in his crappy neighborhood and also believes in social justice and responsibility. Bleeding heart liberal.

Iron Man, as I said, is a moderate Republican. He started out as a neoconservative, but given he quits manufacturing weapons, refuses to give his tech to the US government because he does not believe in the theory of M.A.D. and nuclear deterrence, and goes into manufacturing free cheap renewable energy, he would definitely have drifted left and be crucified by Fox News and CNBC for turning his back on America, capitalism, "freedom," etc. However, given that he trusts in his own personal ability over the government and prefers the private sector, he'd still be on the right. But more like the old school moderates they ran out.

And Punisher is a gun-crazed wingnut.

BTW this all goes back to Watchmen. Alan Moore characterized most superheroes and rightwing nutjobs. Rorschach, most people's favorite character and the story's narrator, is a parody of the ideal "Objectivist" of Ayn Rand. He is also delusional and a misinformed hypocrite who admires "big tough" leaders like Harry Truman who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end a war, but dies to condemn snobbish and elitist blue blood, bleeding heart liberal Ozymandias who essentially nukes New York to avoid WWIII in that story. So, the idea of the hero or ubermen being different forms of absolute fascists is an interesting idea to explore.