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Old 06-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #101
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All of these writers were hired last year before GL flopped. The JL, Flash, WW writers, all of them.

Which is why all the excitement seems weird to me. A Variety writer recently found out who they hired a year ago and yet these news snippets are being treated as current developments.

I'm sure some sort of DC team-up flick will happen after Avengers but it won't involve anyone who worked on Green Lantern except maybe Johns.
So it sounds like this whole thing is just PR spin from WB. They pretty much got their asses handed to them on a silver platter for the mishandling of their properties (other than Batman), and now that Avengers is a huge success they're trying to spin it like they're back on track.

Honestly WB is not much different than Fox, i.e. a bunch of bureaucrats running a movie studio. The big difference is Warner had some good franchises in Potter, the Nolan films, but now that's all dried up and they are realizing they have virtually no bankable properties going forward.

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Old 06-07-2012, 02:17 PM   #102
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Um... The Hangover, Sherlock Holmes, Journey, The Hobbit, Titans. Along with the upcoming hopefuls Man of Steel, Pacific Rim, and Jack the Giant Killer. Plus Batman's next incarnation. Like they said, they're also developing Flash, Wonder Woman, and Justice League and some mystery comic property that the Men in Black director is developing. They're also hoping to make Supergirl a big deal, with a clothing line and various other merchandise possibly building to a feature.

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Old 06-07-2012, 02:27 PM   #103
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So it sounds like this whole thing is just PR spin from WB.
Yeah that's not even remotely close to what I said.

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Old 06-07-2012, 03:09 PM   #104
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Um... The Hangover, Sherlock Holmes, Journey, The Hobbit, Titans. Along with the upcoming hopefuls Man of Steel, Pacific Rim, and Jack the Giant Killer. Plus Batman's next incarnation. Like they said, they're also developing Flash, Wonder Woman, and Justice League and some mystery comic property that the Men in Black director is developing. They're also hoping to make Supergirl a big deal, with a clothing line and various other merchandise possibly building to a feature.
Hangover - yes but on last leg
Holmes - yes at least for one more movie
Hobbit - yes good for 2 films, maybe Silmarillion next?

Man of Steel - hopefully

Journey - not really a big tentpole

Titans - abject failure

The rest of the list, there will be hits or misses, but nothing for certain.

DC has got alot of potential at Warner, but DCE is a joke with no real power and the whole gamble is on MoS which looks promising, but we'll have to see.

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Old 06-07-2012, 05:41 PM   #105
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Honestly, all a JL film needs is a massive prologue, told in voice over and montage (like the Fellowship of the Ring prologue) that sets up the world, the mythos, the threat of the story, and a brief snippet about needing heroes of a different sort in order to get the world up and running without having to do solo lead up films to get to the JL film.
This, this this. A truly epic reading of JL is what's needed. If there's any truth to Millar's assertions that what he's heard is "dark and mature" and "not what you'd expect", it could be the way to go. IMO it's absolutely the way to go. Some humor, but play up the mythological/ gods among us part of it. This isn't going to be six or seven quirky characters with zingers at the ready. It's going to be archetypical characters prepared to save our world from whatever threat presents itself. With a little GL/Flash banter in there I'm sure. Much like Legolas and Gimli (even Aragorn or Gandalf to a degree) in LOTR. I hope this comes to fruition! Go DC!

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Old 06-07-2012, 07:00 PM   #106
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

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So it sounds like this whole thing is just PR spin from WB. They pretty much got their asses handed to them on a silver platter for the mishandling of their properties (other than Batman), and now that Avengers is a huge success they're trying to spin it like they're back on track.

Honestly WB is not much different than Fox, i.e. a bunch of bureaucrats running a movie studio. The big difference is Warner had some good franchises in Potter, the Nolan films, but now that's all dried up and they are realizing they have virtually no bankable properties going forward.
Your marvel fanboy is showing, the studio has been doing fine for years. If you think marvel is any better you're fooling yourself.

The only studio with a consistent losing streak right now is universal.

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Old 06-07-2012, 07:03 PM   #107
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It would be nice if they could work Wonder Woman’s origin into the main story and have Ares as a back ground villain.

Magical enemies vs Superman. You could show him taking heavy damge and everyone would accept it becasue we all know that Sups has weakness again Magic.

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Old 06-07-2012, 07:48 PM   #108
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Not everyone knows that magic is a weakness of Superman...

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Old 06-07-2012, 09:07 PM   #109
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Your marvel fanboy is showing, the studio has been doing fine for years. If you think marvel is any better you're fooling yourself.

The only studio with a consistent losing streak right now is universal.
Whatever

I agree universal is in real trouble and Sony on top of that. My comment is more that WB used to be a great quality family entertainment company until Ted Turner took over the company and basically made them a media giant, same goes for Murdock at Fox.

Yeah Marvel is better because they're run as an independent subsidiary, which is what needs to happen with DCE, which is a joke right now.

I grew up with Marvel comics, but I also grew up watching the Reeves superman movies and the Batman'89 movie when I was in high school. So you can think what you want.

I'm not hear to wash anyone's dogs if Marvel makes mistakes I will call them out on it, and I have for Daredevil, Fantastic Four and the Ghost Rider movies. The Marvel Studios so far has an excellent track record. Some have been more successful than others, there are certainly the stronger movies and the weaker ones, but there's not one bad movie they've produced, not on the scale of Green Lantern, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, or Batman and Robin.

I want to see this movie made, but I want it to be done right, and right now WB does not have their ducks in a row.

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Old 06-07-2012, 09:13 PM   #110
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Don't know why it won't let me quote but smashlilman has a good idea in incorporating Wonder Woman's orgin with the central plot. Over the years a big issue of there not being a live action Wonder Woman movie is the notion that female leads don't sell at the box office nearly as well as male leads. Having the Amazon Wonder Woman team up with men from "the outside world" for the greater good makes sense story wise as well as having DC's biggest stars in one movie makes sense money wise.

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Old 06-07-2012, 09:16 PM   #111
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^if you think marvel will last long as an independent studio you are fooling yourself. As soon as they start having failures, and they will, disney will start having more control over them. With the hiring of alan horn, isnt he also in charge of overseeing marvel as well.

Marvel has just as many problems as DC, going foward now that avengers has come out will be interesting. At the end of the day I'm glad they have done well because it means WB still keeps on trying, but lets not pretend marvels films have been the second coming, they can improve a lot.


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Old 06-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #112
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Not everyone knows that magic is a weakness of Superman...
Superman fans know it and thats why it should be done. Plus a movie with tons of magic would be the perfect opportunity to introduce the GA to more info about Superman's other weakness. No Kryptonite needed for a movie with tons of Magic and a God.


Superhero movies should be made for fans of the comic book and fans of the Genre in general. They should only tweak minor thing so that it appeals to the GA. The problem with most Superhero movies is that they do it the other way around.


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Don't know why it won't let me quote but smashlilman has a good idea in incorporating Wonder Woman's orgin with the central plot. Over the years a big issue of there not being a live action Wonder Woman movie is the notion that female leads don't sell at the box office nearly as well as male leads. Having the Amazon Wonder Woman team up with men from "the outside world" for the greater good makes sense story wise as well as having DC's biggest stars in one movie makes sense money wise.
It's the best course to take.

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^if you think marvel will last long as an independent studio you are fooling yourself. As soon as they start having failures, and they will, disney will start having more control over them. With the hiring of alan horn, isnt he also in charge of overseeing marvel as well.

Marvel has just as many problems as DC, going foward now that avengers has come out will be interesting. At the end of the day I'm glad they have done well because it means WB still keeps on trying, but lets not pretend marvels films have been the second coming, they can improve a lot.
You many be right about Disney in the long run but there are still big difference between Marvel Studios and Warner Brothers. Marvel Studios is in the business of popularizing there lesser known characters while Warner Brothers is in the business of capitalizing on there DC characters popularity. Those to modes of thought lead to differences in decisions making. Marvel is willing to take more risk with there lesser known properties but that leads to them being more cautious in the process of making the movies. Warner Brothers is the exact opposite. They're less willing to make more DC movies with B-list characters but when they make them they go all out.

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Old 06-08-2012, 12:05 AM   #113
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

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^if you think marvel will last long as an independent studio you are fooling yourself. As soon as they start having failures, and they will, disney will start having more control over them. With the hiring of alan horn, isnt he also in charge of overseeing marvel as well.

Marvel has just as many problems as DC, going foward now that avengers has come out will be interesting. At the end of the day I'm glad they have done well because it means WB still keeps on trying, but lets not pretend marvels films have been the second coming, they can improve a lot.
Marvel Studios was able to take Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America - three previously obscure b-list comic book characters - and make successful movie franchises out of them. WB and DCE couldn't do it with even one character, Green Lantern. What problems are you talking about, exactly?

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:39 AM   #114
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The problems he refers to are sacrificing full character films to get to the Avengers, not to mention the fact that the Marvel Studios films have been safe films. It has made them a lot of money but, at the end of the day, there are no chances taken within the narrative of anyone of their films.

Watchmen and V for Vendetta took more chances than the 6 Marvel Studios films combined, from a filmmaking perspective. And we won't even discuss what Nolan's done with his property compared to Marvel. It's not even up for debate.

If you look at WB's track record with their properties since '04, they've let filmmakers create a unique vision for each one. Some have paid off, others haven't. There isn't a unique vision in any of the Marvel Studios films. Not one. It's mostly filmmaking by committee over there. The difference is is that their committee hasn't had an outright flop yet (though Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2, critically, were close), while WB's filmmaking by committee yielded Jonah Hex and Green Lantern, which hurt them bad.

Hell, I'd say Constantine is much more than any of the Marvel Studios' films. You can tell that that film had one vision from top to bottom, no matter what you think of that film. It's severely underrated as a genre picture. Same goes for Superman Returns. Say what you will about it but one vision and it was an ambitious film.

Avengers is ambitious purely from the fact that it's a collection of four franchise characters in one film. Within the narrative, nothing. Good film. Hell of a ride but nothing is different from the previous five Marvel Studios films...

Flame away....


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Old 06-08-2012, 05:56 AM   #115
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

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The problems he refers to are sacrificing full character films to get to the Avengers, not to mention the fact that the Marvel Studios films have been safe films. It has made them a lot of money but, at the end of the day, there are no chances taken within the narrative of anyone of their films.

Watchmen and V for Vendetta took more chances than the 6 Marvel Studios films combined, from a filmmaking perspective. And we won't even discuss what Nolan's done with his property compared to Marvel. It's not even up for debate.

If you look at WB's track record with their properties since '04, they've let filmmakers create a unique vision for each one. Some have paid off, others haven't. There isn't a unique vision in any of the Marvel Studios films. Not one. It's mostly filmmaking by committee over there. The difference is is that their committee hasn't had an outright flop yet (though Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2, critically, were close), while WB's filmmaking by committee yielded Jonah Hex and Green Lantern, which hurt them bad.

Hell, I'd say Constantine is much more than any of the Marvel Studios' films. You can tell that that film had one vision from top to bottom, no matter what you think of that film. It's severely underrated as a genre picture. Same goes for Superman Returns. Say what you will about it but one vision and it was an ambitious film.

Avengers is ambitious purely from the fact that it's a collection of four franchise characters in one film. Within the narrative, nothing. Good film. Hell of a ride but nothing is different from the previous five Marvel Studios films...

Flame away....
Have to say I kind of agree with what you're saying.

The way I see it, It's basically a case of if you don't like that style, you won't particularly like ANY of the films. Because they are all the same. There's no variation as such. You're either a fan of the whole franchise, or your a fan of none of the films.

So there's really no 'pulling together' of different franchises. No combining of the styles of different superheroes. Instead, the heroes have been written to suit that one style. And in a sense, they've lost their uniqueness because of that.

I think it'd be much more ambitious (and therefore more of a risk), to take heroes that are all done in a totally different and unique style, and then try and blend them all together.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:11 AM   #116
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Not to mention that marvel lowballs the **** out of everyone they negotiate with and rush some of their films. These things will bite them in the ass eventually.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:28 AM   #117
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I really dont like the way this Justice League film is developing, I really think thata Superman and Batman film will be more beneficial for DC or a Trinity film, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, as the film to set up a Justice League in future...

But, i read that The JL film will be more darker and mature, and a lot of people saying that they must do what Avengers done. And I don't agree with that, when Dark Knight cams out a whole lot of people said Dark and Mature should be the direction for Avengers and comic films, and now everybody going back to the comics for inspiration!!

JL is a team of god-like superheroes so maybe the best way to treat them is a little more serious, than the Avengers... The Threat that they face will have to be global, with everyone having there hands full in different parts of the world... Filming in a whole bunch of locations around the world!!

I think JL has to be a little more serious than Avengers and maybe WB can make a good story, but if you have any doubts still, check out this fan-made trailer I found on YouTube!! IT SOLD ME ON A JUSTICE LEAGUE Film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LynC...e_gdata_player

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #118
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

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I really dont like the way this Justice League film is developing, I really think thata Superman and Batman film will be more beneficial for DC or a Trinity film, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, as the film to set up a Justice League in future...

But, i read that The JL film will be more darker and mature, and a lot of people saying that they must do what Avengers done. And I don't agree with that, when Dark Knight cams out a whole lot of people said Dark and Mature should be the direction for Avengers and comic films, and now everybody going back to the comics for inspiration!!

JL is a team of god-like superheroes so maybe the best way to treat them is a little more serious, than the Avengers... The Threat that they face will have to be global, with everyone having there hands full in different parts of the world... Filming in a whole bunch of locations around the world!!

I think JL has to be a little more serious than Avengers and maybe WB can make a good story, but if you have any doubts still, check out this fan-made trailer I found on YouTube!! IT SOLD ME ON A JUSTICE LEAGUE Film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LynC...e_gdata_player


First of all, I suggest you stop taking what Mark Miller says seriously considering the guy overexaggerates everything. He isn't reliable at all.

Second, don't try to start a TDKR-Avengers flame war.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #119
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

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Originally Posted by M-2 View Post
I really dont like the way this Justice League film is developing, I really think thata Superman and Batman film will be more beneficial for DC or a Trinity film, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, as the film to set up a Justice League in future...

But, i read that The JL film will be more darker and mature, and a lot of people saying that they must do what Avengers done. And I don't agree with that, when Dark Knight cams out a whole lot of people said Dark and Mature should be the direction for Avengers and comic films, and now everybody going back to the comics for inspiration!!

JL is a team of god-like superheroes so maybe the best way to treat them is a little more serious, than the Avengers... The Threat that they face will have to be global, with everyone having there hands full in different parts of the world... Filming in a whole bunch of locations around the world!!

I think JL has to be a little more serious than Avengers and maybe WB can make a good story, but if you have any doubts still, check out this fan-made trailer I found on YouTube!! IT SOLD ME ON A JUSTICE LEAGUE Film

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LynC...e_gdata_player
Serious do not = Dark
Just wanted to get that out there.

I'm not against dark and gritty comic book films. I love The Dark Knight and the Watchmen. I just don't approve of every comic book movie being generically turned into an ultra dark for no reason. Each individual comic book movie should have is own independent feel that's reflective of the style the comics where created in.

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Old 06-08-2012, 10:24 AM   #120
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

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Serious do not = Dark
Just wanted to get that out there.

I'm not against dark and gritty comic book films. I love The Dark Knight and the Watchmen. I just don't approve of every comic book movie being generically turned into an ultra dark for no reason. Each individual comic book movie should have is own independent feel that's reflective of the style the comics where created in.
Yep, and I don't think JL should try and go the same route as Avengers with comedy... Obviously Flash will be the comedic relief, but JL's characters are a little more serious, and because these characters are so supremely powerful, you will need a threat that's really going to push them to there limits...

So okay, More serious not necessarily dark!!

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:21 AM   #121
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The problems he refers to are sacrificing full character films to get to the Avengers, not to mention the fact that the Marvel Studios films have been safe films. It has made them a lot of money but, at the end of the day, there are no chances taken within the narrative of anyone of their films.

Watchmen and V for Vendetta took more chances than the 6 Marvel Studios films combined, from a filmmaking perspective. And we won't even discuss what Nolan's done with his property compared to Marvel. It's not even up for debate.

If you look at WB's track record with their properties since '04, they've let filmmakers create a unique vision for each one. Some have paid off, others haven't. There isn't a unique vision in any of the Marvel Studios films. Not one. It's mostly filmmaking by committee over there. The difference is is that their committee hasn't had an outright flop yet (though Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2, critically, were close), while WB's filmmaking by committee yielded Jonah Hex and Green Lantern, which hurt them bad.

Hell, I'd say Constantine is much more than any of the Marvel Studios' films. You can tell that that film had one vision from top to bottom, no matter what you think of that film. It's severely underrated as a genre picture. Same goes for Superman Returns. Say what you will about it but one vision and it was an ambitious film.

Avengers is ambitious purely from the fact that it's a collection of four franchise characters in one film. Within the narrative, nothing. Good film. Hell of a ride but nothing is different from the previous five Marvel Studios films...

Flame away....
Ya with Avengers and the stand-alones, the direction they took is definitely separate to that of movies like Watchmen, V, Constantine, etc. etc. That's fine though ..... it's just a different strategy.

I loved V, Watchmen, and Constantine ...... The first two weren't going to appeal to a mass audience though, only to people who desire more levels and depth to the narrative. I seriously hope one day I can get a Constantine sequel.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #122
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Yep, and I don't think JL should try and go the same route as Avengers with comedy... Obviously Flash will be the comedic relief, but JL's characters are a little more serious, and because these characters are so supremely powerful, you will need a threat that's really going to push them to there limits...

So okay, More serious not necessarily dark!!
Avengers having a sense of humor about itself doesn't make it a comedy.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:36 AM   #123
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^if you think marvel will last long as an independent studio you are fooling yourself. As soon as they start having failures, and they will, disney will start having more control over them. With the hiring of alan horn, isnt he also in charge of overseeing marvel as well.

Marvel has just as many problems as DC, going foward now that avengers has come out will be interesting. At the end of the day I'm glad they have done well because it means WB still keeps on trying, but lets not pretend marvels films have been the second coming, they can improve a lot.
Now you sound like the fanboy. Disney doesn't micromanage it's subsidiaries. They don't do it with Pixar, and then don't do it with Marvel.

WB's problem isn't micromanagement, but it's that they have no formal structure to produce comic films. The fact that Nolan is doing his own thing outside of oversight from DCE is a problem. It's a problem for MoS, and it's was a huge problem for Green Lantern because they had a whole production where the director and the producers were asleep at the wheel.

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“Whenever you see somebody crossing over to something it gives it pop. Like Murder She Wrote and Magnum [P.I.] — great crossover. I got excited.” Joss Whedon on Spider-man joining the Avengers.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:38 AM   #124
Tony Stark
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
Not to mention that marvel lowballs the **** out of everyone they negotiate with and rush some of their films. These things will bite them in the ass eventually.
Yeah they really lowballed Robert Downey Jr. didn't they? He only got a 50M dollar bonus.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:48 AM   #125
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Default Re: Justice League: News and Speculation

I think more serious, but you will have to have some humour. The key for me would be character arcs. You can't have this multitude of heros all good friends with no conflict. The respect among them has to be earned. An economy of storytelling, the rule of film don't use exposition if you can show. Batman has to be paranoid and distrustful of the power houses around him, possibly discussing it with Alfred while researching the members, but never showing the League his fear.

I'm not a writer but, Batman's relationship with the others: a) Superman, scared of his power levels, but comes to respect his decency, and commitment to do the right thing, b)Diana, admires her tactical accumen, battle smarts, but abhorred by her willingness to kill if needed, c)Flash, again mistrustful of power level, but admiring of his forensic detective ability, d)Green Lantern, mistrusts his space cop authority status, comes to respect his commitment to Justice e)Aquaman, wealth self made man meets haughty arrogant royalty, an obvious clash, f)Manhunter, again common ground on the police detective side, etc.

And then the character arcs between Everyone else, Superman and Wonder Woman, once again does not approve of her ferocity, but intriguied by her power, physicallity, someone who is near his power level.

I could go on but you get the idea, and an actual writer can define this more eloquently than I. But character, and arcs are what make a movie successful. They have to start at a certain place, and arrive at their destination with a journey. It has to be a struggle, which is what worked in the Avengers. When they finally assembled in that circle in the midst of destruction standing back to back, the theatre went nuts with people cheering. They had finally become the team. Let's hope DC, understands that and doesn't have them all chummy and friends hanging out saving the world. Conflict and resolution. And a threat that is an insane challenge. My two cents worth...

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