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Old 06-07-2012, 06:28 PM   #51
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer View Post
Weird... for me it's the other way round. I've cried at Coulson's death every time, but Jean's death in X2 has never made me shed a tear. And I cry at most things.
Coulson meant nothing to me. He was a background character who was only used for the SHIELD plot device. His character never got development or growth. Thus, a 'meh' reaction to Agent Coulson kicking the bucket.

Jean was a character who was established from the previous installment, and her sacrifice in X2 was much more emotional, in my opinion.

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Because he was someone they knew personally who died.
Steve Rogers and Bruce Banner had never met Coulson prior to the events that took place onboard the Hellcarrier, Tony Stark never acknowledged Coulson as a friend until he died and Thor had only talked to Coulson 2-3x in Thor & The Avengers.

Sorry, I still don't see it. He was an associate at best (from what was perceived), not a teammate or close friend.

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Old 06-07-2012, 07:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex View Post
Coulson meant nothing to me. He was a background character who was only used for the SHIELD plot device. His character never got development or growth. Thus, a 'meh' reaction to Agent Coulson kicking the bucket.

Jean was a character who was established from the previous installment, and her sacrifice in X2 was much more emotional, in my opinion.



Steve Rogers and Bruce Banner had never met Coulson prior to the events that took place onboard the Hellcarrier, Tony Stark never acknowledged Coulson as a friend until he died and Thor had only talked to Coulson 2-3x in Thor & The Avengers.

Sorry, I still don't see it. He was an associate at best (from what was perceived), not a teammate or close friend.

I agree with you here, they made his death more important then it should have been considering his screen time in the previous films. Jeans death was much more emotional but maybe it wasn't for some fans because we all knew she was going to be returning as the phoenix.

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Old 06-08-2012, 03:58 AM   #53
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

Coulson was as much a friend to them as an ant passing by.

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Old 06-08-2012, 11:45 AM   #54
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

Jean didn't die in X2, her real death in X3 was a joke. The death scene is X2 was a copycat of the death of Spock from Star Trek 2.

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Old 06-08-2012, 12:18 PM   #55
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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Jean didn't die in X2, her real death in X3 was a joke. The death scene is X2 was a copycat of the death of Spock from Star Trek 2.
That's not the point. The 'death' scene in X2 held more emotional weight than in The Avengers. Honestly, I don't know why fans would feel anything for a character that received no background or development.

Copycat? Let's not get petty here. The Avengers' death scene wasn't too original either.

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Old 06-08-2012, 12:49 PM   #56
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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That's not the point. The 'death' scene in X2 held more emotional weight than in The Avengers. Honestly, I don't know why fans would feel anything for a character that received no background or development.

Copycat? Let's not get petty here. The Avengers' death scene wasn't too original either.
Yes it was a copycat and Singer even said as much. Hell Jean even does the "Space the Final Frontier..." speech at the end. Heck even the closing music during that is very similar to Star Trek 2.

The whole X-men series is a shadow of what it could have been, but that's got nothing to do with Justice League so I'll move on.

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Old 06-08-2012, 03:50 PM   #57
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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Coulson meant nothing to me. He was a background character who was only used for the SHIELD plot device. His character never got development or growth.
That's not correct.

Let's take a look back, shall we? In Iron Man, we are introduced to Coulson as an unassuming, average guy in a suit who just wants to book an appointment. When he finally gets that appointment, it is interrupted by Iron Monger's rampage at Stark Industries. He surprises everyone by leading a team of agents and breaking into the facility with his gadgets.

In Iron Man 2, he reveals a new side to his personality when he is assigned as Stark's supervisor. He takes no attitude from Stark, which immediately makes him a character of note because he is one of the few who can handle his personality. Granted, Tony eventually escapes but that's because he's the main character.

In Thor, he is in charge of a makeshift SHIELD facility, which tells us that he has some authority beyond being an agent on the field. He personally interrogates Thor, which similar to his role in Iron Man 2 makes him grow as a character, moving from a simple supporting character to a character as heroic as the superheroes themselves. This is actually the film that does most for his character, as when Dr. Selvig claims Thor he sees straight through his lies but allows them to go anyway, as he senses good in Thor and wants to see how the situation develops. He takes on The Destroyer himself, strutting up to it because he was under the impression that it was a Stark creation. ("He never tells me anything", another indicator of the growing rapport between him and Stark). He gets an open acknowledgment of respect from Thor at the end, and is instrumental in Thor learning to cooperate with others.

Finally we get to The Avengers, where we see that he has befriended Pepper Potts and find out that he is romantically involved with a Cellist from Portland. We learn that he is quite shy when it comes to romance because he obviously hasn't made his feelings clear to her. We then find out that he is a Captain America fanboy, particularly interested in collecting trading cards. His comment "we need a little old fashioned" reveals his investment in The Avengers initiative, and exactly why he was so involved in all these heroes' lives. He has an optimistic view of the world and believes in heroes, and that good will triumph over evil. He even says in his death scene that he risked his life just to give them the push that he needed.

This is why Coulson got his own thread in The Avengers forums. This is why his death was seen as shocking, and this is why people are still trying to find ways to prove he didn't die. Because people actually liked his character, and Marvel knows this, because now they've introduced him into the comic books.

I'm not some Coulson fanboy. At first I disliked seeing him pop up in all the movies, because I felt an actual character from the comics would be better suited. But he grew on me, because he developed as a character.

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:23 PM   #58
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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Originally Posted by JAK® View Post
That's not correct.
Yes, it is.

Quote:
Let's take a look back, shall we? In Iron Man, we are introduced to Coulson as an unassuming, average guy in a suit who just wants to book an appointment. When he finally gets that appointment, it is interrupted by Iron Monger's rampage at Stark Industries. He surprises everyone by leading a team of agents and breaking into the facility with his gadgets.
Point?

Background character.

Quote:
In Iron Man 2, he reveals a new side to his personality when he is assigned as Stark's supervisor. He takes no attitude from Stark, which immediately makes him a character of note because he is one of the few who can handle his personality. Granted, Tony eventually escapes but that's because he's the main character.
That means nothing to me, pal. Coulson still doesn't break away from being a background character. ScarJo's poorly written and developed Black Widow had more screen time and dialogue than Agent Coulson did.

Quote:
In Thor, he is in charge of a makeshift SHIELD facility, which tells us that he has some authority beyond being an agent on the field. He personally interrogates Thor, which similar to his role in Iron Man 2 makes him grow as a character, moving from a simple supporting character to a character as heroic as the superheroes themselves. This is actually the film that does most for his character, as when Dr. Selvig claims Thor he sees straight through his lies but allows them to go anyway, as he senses good in Thor and wants to see how the situation develops. He takes on The Destroyer himself, strutting up to it because he was under the impression that it was a Stark creation. ("He never tells me anything", another indicator of the growing rapport between him and Stark). He gets an open acknowledgment of respect from Thor at the end, and is instrumental in Thor learning to cooperate with others.
I'm waiting for the part where I give a damn about who Agent Coulson is as a character in Thor.

Quote:
Finally we get to The Avengers, where we see that he has befriended Pepper Potts and find out that he is romantically involved with a Cellist from Portland. We learn that he is quite shy when it comes to romance because he obviously hasn't made his feelings clear to her. We then find out that he is a Captain America fanboy, particularly interested in collecting trading cards. His comment "we need a little old fashioned" reveals his investment in The Avengers initiative, and exactly why he was so involved in all these heroes' lives. He has an optimistic view of the world and believes in heroes, and that good will triumph over evil. He even says in his death scene that he risked his life just to give them the push that he needed.
Once again, I'm waiting for the part where I'm suppose to care. Someone explaining what type of man he was after he died doesn't cut it for me. His death could not be inspiring when his 'relationship' with these heroes never flurished.

Quote:
This is why Coulson got his own thread in The Avengers forums. This is why his death was seen as shocking, and this is why people are still trying to find ways to prove he didn't die. Because people actually liked his character, and Marvel knows this, because now they've introduced him into the comic books.
His death wasn't shocking nor was it important to me. The character receiving minimal development and growth (from single digit minutes of footage) doesn't qualify as established.

Quote:
I'm not some Coulson fanboy. At first I disliked seeing him pop up in all the movies, because I felt an actual character from the comics would be better suited. But he grew on me, because he developed as a character.
He never grew on me (and I didn't get attached to him) because Coulson never got nowhere near enough development. He was a one dimensional character serving the SHIELD story line. If you disagree, that's fine, but Agent Coulson remains a background character who was sacrificed by the writers to gather the troops. At no point during the movie did I care about Coulson, or missed him.

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Quote:
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #59
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

"LA LA LA I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE LA LA LA"

Is that the basis of your argument? You don't like Coulson, fine. That's your problem, not anything to do with the character himself.

I mean, it's quite telling that you're saying this about him rather than Nick Fury, who fits your definition of a plot device way more than Coulson does. But he's from the comics, isn't he? So he gets a pass.

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #60
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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"LA LA LA I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE LA LA LA"

Is that the basis of your argument? You don't like Coulson, fine. That's your problem, not anything to do with the character himself.

I mean, it's quite telling that you're saying this about him rather than Nick Fury, who fits your definition of a plot device way more than Coulson does. But he's from the comics, isn't he? So he gets a pass.
No, he doesn't. Why? Because Whedon tried to make this particular death a 'turn-around' or eye-opening moment where the heroes put their egos aside and work together. The fact of the matter is Coulson was not that type of character. He served virtually no purpose, for me, just like Maria Hill. Coulson was expendable to the writers, and the easiest to kill off without taking a huge risk. That's it.

Minuscule developments don't equal 'LA LA LA'. Minimal growth equals to 'Ok... I guess. Moving on.'

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Quote:
Oldman: "Wow, this is it."


Nolan: [facetiously] "Yeah. [pause] Unless you want to whore your ass out for a load of money for ‘Batman 4."
Quote:
Nolan: "I've gotta pee. It's a two pee movie. I need to make a shorter movie next time."
Quote:

Nolan: "Oh, it's on. Here Emma, hold my vest."
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:44 PM   #61
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

Coulson's massive fanbase doesn't see it that way. He obviously made an impression on them.

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #62
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

That's great.

I'm more of a Falafel Guy and Ms Crabtree fan.

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:09 PM   #63
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

Assuming this is still the JL director thread..

I wonder if they would consider Steven Soderbergh(or if he would be interested). Think what you will about the Ocean's Trilogy (Ocean's 11 was head and shoulders above 12 and 13) but they had a bunch of characters with a BOAT-LOAD of star-power and it worked..from a characters standpoint. Anyways, I think he is worth a look.

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #64
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

damon lindelof should write he seems to like doing ensemble casts Star Trek,LOST,Prometheus but it seems like they got gangster squad guy

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:15 PM   #65
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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That's great.

I'm more of a Falafel Guy and Ms Crabtree fan.
I prefer the No More Dead Cops Guy myself.

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:17 PM   #66
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

Coulson's death, in context of the movie, is galvanising, because he has the strongest relationship to each of the Avengers, minus Hulk.

With Stark he is a friend of Stark's better half and forced Tony to save his own life, in the process, uncovering that Howard did love Tony. He didn't quite seem like a friend to Tony, but Tony doesn't really treat his only friend very well, so maybe Tony did like him, hence the banter "Phil? His first name is Agent".

With Thor he was told by Thor himself that Coulson would be considered an ally to Thor and that their goals are the same.

For Cap, he was clearly an idol of everything that Cap was and what he believes in, and a complete idol for the man.

Fury was the fact that he was his "good eye", Hawkeye and Widow was because he was their superior.

But that is all bound by the fact the he was the only one to still support in The Avengers, as he was the last one who "still believed in heroes". This faith pushed the rest of the team into action.

You may not like the character, but it makes perfect sense in the film.





Now then, Justice League?

Still wanting Bird, but someone said Jackson, and I think that could be good as long as people don't think he's just trying to copy LotR.

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:25 PM   #67
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

Robert Zemeckis.

Done.

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:27 PM   #68
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Robert Zemeckis.

Done.
He might be blacklisted by WB for his disparaging comments about the idea of directing Superman.

But then again, Matthew Vaughan caused a lot more problems for FOX and they still brought him back.

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Old 06-08-2012, 06:20 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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Coulson's death, in context of the movie, is galvanising, because he has the strongest relationship to each of the Avengers, minus Hulk.
Strongest by default considering there was colossal conflict within the group. That's not saying much, in my opinion. Coulson was likely viewed as a superior or 'management' material.

Quote:
With Stark he is a friend of Stark's better half and forced Tony to save his own life, in the process, uncovering that Howard did love Tony. He didn't quite seem like a friend to Tony, but Tony doesn't really treat his only friend very well, so maybe Tony did like him, hence the banter "Phil? His first name is Agent".
Judging by Stark's reaction on the Hellcarrier, Coulson was a close friend. That, however, was never seen on-screen. It was conveniently produced when Phil was long dead. Thus, Tony's sorrows did not evoke anything emotional in the process.

Quote:
With Thor he was told by Thor himself that Coulson would be considered an ally to Thor and that their goals are the same.
I've called many associates of mine comrades or allies in the past. The word ally doesn't confirm a relationship or friendship.

Quote:
For Cap, he was clearly an idol of everything that Cap was and what he believes in, and a complete idol for the man.
Worshipping an individual doesn't make one a friend. If so, Hathaway would be my best friend.

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Fury was the fact that he was his "good eye", Hawkeye and Widow was because he was their superior.
Yet nothing was unveiled here other than what we already knew.

Quote:
But that is all bound by the fact the he was the only one to still support in The Avengers, as he was the last one who "still believed in heroes". This faith pushed the rest of the team into action.
Which still doesn't make sense. No stranger's death has influenced or affected my decisions in life nor has it motivated me. Alot of weight was placed on Coulson's death to bring the team together but it wasn't done well, in my opinion.

Quote:
You may not like the character, but it makes perfect sense in the film.
It's not about not liking the character. There just wasn't anything sentimental or inspiring about Coulson's death (similar to Odin's coma or 'Odinsleep') -- it was awkward and confusing.

We can continue to debate this further but all we're gonna keep doing is dissect a one-dimensional character's faux significance.

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Quote:
Oldman: "Wow, this is it."


Nolan: [facetiously] "Yeah. [pause] Unless you want to whore your ass out for a load of money for ‘Batman 4."
Quote:
Nolan: "I've gotta pee. It's a two pee movie. I need to make a shorter movie next time."
Quote:

Nolan: "Oh, it's on. Here Emma, hold my vest."

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Old 06-08-2012, 06:22 PM   #70
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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I prefer the No More Dead Cops Guy myself.


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Originally Posted by MarvelKnight View Post
I wonder if they would consider Steven Soderbergh(or if he would be interested). Think what you will about the Ocean's Trilogy (Ocean's 11 was head and shoulders above 12 and 13) but they had a bunch of characters with a BOAT-LOAD of star-power and it worked..from a characters standpoint. Anyways, I think he is worth a look.
Soderbergh has been a favorite amongst fans, hasn't he? I've seen him mentioned several times. I personally wouldn't mind.

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Law is an instrument of commerce and often an obstruction to justice. It is a Court of Law, NOT of Justice.

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Quote:
Oldman: "Wow, this is it."


Nolan: [facetiously] "Yeah. [pause] Unless you want to whore your ass out for a load of money for ‘Batman 4."
Quote:
Nolan: "I've gotta pee. It's a two pee movie. I need to make a shorter movie next time."
Quote:

Nolan: "Oh, it's on. Here Emma, hold my vest."
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:12 PM   #71
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

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Coulson's massive fanbase doesn't see it that way. He obviously made an impression on them.
Honestly I think the fanbase he has is because of the actor himself and the way he interacted with the fans more so then the character he portrayed. He was really cool showing up to comic con and what not.

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Old 06-08-2012, 07:16 PM   #72
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Soderbergh has been a favorite amongst fans, hasn't he? I've seen him mentioned several times. I personally wouldn't mind.
Yeah, I watched Ocean's 11 the other day and after reading how they want JL off the ground in the near future, he was first that came to mind. Figured I'd throw it out on the thread and see what people thought

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Old 06-08-2012, 10:18 PM   #73
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Yeah, I watched Ocean's 11 the other day and after reading how they want JL off the ground in the near future, he was first that came to mind. Figured I'd throw it out on the thread and see what people thought
He'd be an interesting choice, but not sure if he'd do it or not.

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Old 06-09-2012, 07:29 AM   #74
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I'd be cool with David Yates.

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Old 06-09-2012, 07:37 AM   #75
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Default Re: The Official Justice League Director Thread

I wouldn't want Snyder to direct, not because I don't like his stuff, but I'd rather he stick to MOS sequels. Let someone else do the heavy lifting.
Nolans should be the one producing all the DC cinematic universe.

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