New characters you want to see in the First Class sequel?

[def28]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

I guess the issue is whether the film would have suffered if they hadn't added in these minor characters. Probably not. Arguably, we didn't really need Havok, Angel, Darwin and Riptide at all. Havok could have been replaced with Sunfire if they needed an energy blaster.

My problem with Angel and Riptide is that they are there to battle the X Men at the end and I thought those fights sucked. Riptide was a bad opponent as was Angel imo. I thought they hurt the film

[Angamb]

I think both werent bad choices at all, in fact Riptide could have been a better fighter, the creative team just didnt give him a real fight scene at all.

It probably has to do with the budget, and at the same time, maybe Matthew didnt want bigger oponents to the x-men for their first mission.

Just imagine Shaw, Emma and Azazel fighting with Havok, Banshee and Beast.

They would have been killed in a matter of seconds, specially with Emma's telephatic power.

[def28]

Originally Posted by Angamb

I think both werent bad choices at all, in fact Riptide could have been a better fighter, the creative team just didnt give him a real fight scene at all.

It probably has to do with the budget, and at the same time, maybe Matthew didnt want bigger oponents to the x-men for their first mission.

Just imagine Shaw, Emma and Azazel fighting with Havok, Banshee and Beast.

They would have been killed in a matter of seconds, specially with Emma's telephatic power.

I cant give them a pass on what they could have done, we all could probably come up with better fight scenes for him. Riptide didnt do anything in that last scene. Whatever is in the film is how I judge it. The guy didnt have one line and got his ass kicked by Havok in a sec. The fight with Angel Vs Banshee and Havok is probably my least favorite scene in the movie. The fighting was pretty bad imo and needs to be improved on. Angel and Riptide are responsible for that.

[Angamb]

The responsibles are the creative team.

The actors just do what the director tells them, nothing more, nothing less.

This can be aplied to all the movies and tv series, and of course to all superheromovies to date. Most of the characters have more potential than what the movies show, so its just the creative team fault, in any case.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by def28

I cant give them a pass on what they could have done, we all could probably come up with better fight scenes for him. Riptide didnt do anything in that last scene. Whatever is in the film is how I judge it. The guy didnt have one line and got his ass kicked by Havok in a sec. The fight with Angel Vs Banshee and Havok is probably my least favorite scene in the movie. The fighting was pretty bad imo and needs to be improved on. Angel and Riptide are responsible for that.

I guess we can all think of better things in hindsight.

My view, in hindsight, is that Havok could have been replaced by Sunfire and it wouldn't have caused the fuss over his age in relation to Cyclops, or even possibly being reimagined as Scott's dad.

Angel and Riptide were there for cool visuals mostly, and Angel also to provide a flying counterpart to Banshee. Almost certainly Riptide didn't speak because it would have meant paying him more under SAG rules. I felt it also makes it difficult to bring in Storm if he is there, unless the two of them battle it out with 'my tornado is bigger than yours.'

Like I said, in retrospect the film could have omitted Havok, Angel, Darwin and Riptide and not really have been harmed. Add Sunfire instead of Havok and you get someone who arrived on the team at the same time as Banshee, so it feels a little closer to comic continuity.

[def28]

Originally Posted by Angamb

The responsibles are the creative team.

The actors just do what the director tells them, nothing more, nothing less.

This can be aplied to all the movies and tv series, and of course to all superheromovies to date. Most of the characters have more potential than what the movies show, so its just the creative team fault, in any case.

Definitely I agree 100%, but we cant change what was already filmed. I didnt like those characters or what they brought. Has nothing to do with the actual actors themselves. Im sure they are talented people.

[Angamb]

I get your point.

It is what it is, at the end of the day.

Lets see what Matthew does on the sequel, Im pretty he'll give us TOP action this time. and with a bigger and better final battle.

[def28]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Like I said, in retrospect the film could have omitted Havok, Angel, Darwin and Riptide and not really have been harmed. Add Sunfire instead of Havok and you get someone who arrived on the team at the same time as Banshee, so it feels a little closer to comic continuity.

Agreed. Dont know how much that would have made me feel there sticking to the comics more, but yeah I think any of those characters could have been switched out without hurting the film.

Originally Posted by Angamb

I get your point.

It is what it is, at the end of the day.

Lets see what Matthew does on the sequel, Im pretty he'll give us TOP action this time. and with a bigger and better final battle.

Definitely .

Im stoked they have more time for production. I expect the fights will be improved.

[The Strategos]

I really dug the fights and liked the characters. Ah well !

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

With this being a prequel, they obviously couldn't use Iceman and Angel because they weren't even born in the 60s.

If it had been a reboot, and announced as such, then they may have gone with the original five from the comics.

Ah, I didn't realise it was a prequel.

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Amazing Spider-Man proved to me why reboots don't really work when the original series is still fresh in people's minds.

I take it by 'work' you mean universal critical acclaim like SM1, rather than if TASM is actually the best Spidey flick to date or not?

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Yes, hence we didn't need to see the original five.

We didn't need to watch the movie.
But had it been a reboot, the original five would have been way cooler.

I will say this tho, Jackman was better in his brief cameo as Wolvie than he has been in any previous X-Men film. He totally captured him in that scene. And because he was sitting down, we couldn't see he was 6'2 or whatver.

[marvelrobbins]

At end of the day this film was about how Xavier and Magneto meet,come to work together,becoming friends,and how their different views led to them falling out and going their different ways.Bryan Singer said Mystique and beast were chosen to be used because they could be used without any continuity problems since you have no Idea
how old they are from earlier films(plus Singer has wanted to use Beast In one of his films) the selection of protype X-Men and Hellfire club(besides Sebsastan Shaw and Emma Frost) was made of who they thought could be made to work with this story.
Sunspot was originally part of hellfire club till Matthew Vaughn dropped him.

Now for sequel Imagne what Vaughn can do with Sentinles and X-Men VS Brotherhood showdown.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

I take it by 'work' you mean universal critical acclaim like SM1, rather than if TASM is actually the best Spidey flick to date or not?

By whether TASM worked, I mean from my point of view that it seemed unnecessary to go over old ground like the origin story, spider bite, Uncle Ben tragedy, Flash Thompson bullying, etc. It's a view shared by others, but I appreciate that some people don't mind that it's a restart that wipes the slate clean.

Of course, being a reboot does allow them to bring in Green Goblin, Doc Ock, all over again (as both of those villains died in the first set of films), but I think they're going to have a hard job beating the portrayal of J Jonah Jameson. And, in my view, Uncle Ben and Aunt May were better in the previous films.

The reason i believe TASM reboot was a questionable decision is because the previous films are still fresh in most people's minds.

And the same applies to X-Men. People remember McKellen, Jackman, Halle Berry, Patrick Stewart. Rebooting means throwing all that out. Even if some of that could be improved on with hindsight, I'm not sure it would work.

Ironically, though, TASM is still doing very well because it's Spider-Man. But we have to bear in mind when looking at the box office figures that its 'opening weekend' in fact started on Tuesday and is a weekend that is six days long.

[marvelrobbins]

I am seeing The Amazing SPider-Man later today so I will soon have clear oporion on It.As I have made clear I am sick to death of reboots.Hollywood Is going overboard with It.
Because I never viewed the previous trilogy as I did with X-Men and X2 I am willing to view film that throws them out.I didn't like rebooting James Bond(be honest what did you
really learn that was necsarry to bond's character.Roger moore did his own DAD with Moonraker and did a more down to earth film with For Your Eyes Only) I have no Intrest In Man of steel.The dark Knight rises may turn out great but warner brothers should have considered the long term run of batman films before letting Chris Nolan do whatever he wants.Batman will be In same postion as Spider-Man because talk Is the batman reboot could be In theatres as early as 2015.And when It comes to marvel films I also view how much of characters I know from 616 universe In the films.I don't want the films to be based on just Ultimate universe.There are those of us who read comics before ultimate SPider-Man and Ultimate X-Men In 2000.

[def28]

As long as Bats doesnt redo the origin it should be fine. Re doing the origins so soon instead of giving us a new story seems to be the problem with reboots. Man of Steel needs a new everything,start from scratch and hopefully its good.

If a series puts itself in a position where its done or in serious trouble then reboots are a good thing. Just dont give us the same **** we saw 5-10 years ago. Its good to see stories that werent possible before hand and other directors takes imo.

[marvelrobbins]

So I hope If you critized changes Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaughn made to X-Men you
will give Zach Snyder the same treatment with regard to Man of steel.

[def28]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

So I hope If you critized changes Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaughn made to X-Men you
will give Zach Snyder the same treatment with regard to Man of steel.

Definitely. I have problems with all of Snyders films even if they followed the comics very closely.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

So I hope If you critized changes Bryan Singer and Matthew Vaughn made to X-Men you
will give Zach Snyder the same treatment with regard to Man of steel.

They didn't need to reboot Superman to be honest. We all know the origin story. Just recast and move forwards...

I'm surprised, though, that they haven't used Zack Snyder's stylish greenscreen technique (from 300) to create more fantasy and comic book projects. It's low budget and, although stylised, it works well for fantasy material.

[marvelrobbins]

I really wish studios would return to the classic Bond style.recast parts,bring your own style moving forward but can still be seen as part of same series.Like when Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnon took over as Bond.Their style were different than predassers but It was still seen as ongoing series.And It got them 20 films over 40 years.With the cast universe characters like Superman,Batman,Spider-man,and X-Men they have material
for a similar run.And audences were always ready to accept Bond as kind of timeless character.I am glad some are going to treat SNyder the same as Singer and Vaughn.

[Radioactive1980]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

By whether TASM worked, I mean from my point of view that it seemed unnecessary to go over old ground like the origin story, spider bite, Uncle Ben tragedy, Flash Thompson bullying, etc. It's a view shared by others, but I appreciate that some people don't mind that it's a restart that wipes the slate clean.

Of course, being a reboot does allow them to bring in Green Goblin, Doc Ock, all over again (as both of those villains died in the first set of films), but I think they're going to have a hard job beating the portrayal of J Jonah Jameson. And, in my view, Uncle Ben and Aunt May were better in the previous films.

The reason i believe TASM reboot was a questionable decision is because the previous films are still fresh in most people's minds.

And the same applies to X-Men. People remember McKellen, Jackman, Halle Berry, Patrick Stewart. Rebooting means throwing all that out. Even if some of that could be improved on with hindsight, I'm not sure it would work.

Ironically, though, TASM is still doing very well because it's Spider-Man. But we have to bear in mind when looking at the box office figures that its 'opening weekend' in fact started on Tuesday and is a weekend that is six days long.

To me box office does not mean anything in terms of how good a film is. Of course a certain level of financial success is needed, but with Spidey that's not going to be a problem. I see TASM has been getting a mixed to positive response due to apparently following the same plot points as SM1.

I have not actually seen it yet, I'm going tmr night. I wanted to wait until I could get the optimum seats (middle back 3D IMAX) for my first viewing.

As for Jameson, I never liked JK Simmons. He didn't look like the comic version and wasn't angry enough.
There wasn't much I liked about the Raimi films, heh.
Hopefully this time they'll get someone with an actual flattop instead of a wig.

Personally I'm hoping we get a more visually comic faithful Green Goblin in the sequel. Along with a more comic faithful Spidey suit.

[marvelrobbins]

having seen The Amazing Spider-man and as one who never had great love for Rami's
trilogy(and this was before Spider-Man 3) I can say It Is better than Rami's films and
like X-Men,X2,First Class I call It better than most of marvel studios films(besides The
Avengers) This was first time I came close to liking a Spider-Man film as well as I do
X-Men/X2/First Class.

[The Strategos]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

I really wish studios would return to the classic Bond style.recast parts,bring your own style moving forward but can still be seen as part of same series.Like when Roger Moore and Pierce Brosnon took over as Bond.Their style were different than predassers but It was still seen as ongoing series.And It got them 20 films over 40 years.With the cast universe characters like Superman,Batman,Spider-man,and X-Men they have material
for a similar run.And audences were always ready to accept Bond as kind of timeless character.I am glad some are going to treat SNyder the same as Singer and Vaughn.

Agreed, most reboots seem totally pointless!

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Radioactive1980

To me box office does not mean anything in terms of how good a film is. Of course a certain level of financial success is needed, but with Spidey that's not going to be a problem. I see TASM has been getting a mixed to positive response due to apparently following the same plot points as SM1.

I have not actually seen it yet, I'm going tmr night. I wanted to wait until I could get the optimum seats (middle back 3D IMAX) for my first viewing.

As for Jameson, I never liked JK Simmons. He didn't look like the comic version and wasn't angry enough.
There wasn't much I liked about the Raimi films, heh.
Hopefully this time they'll get someone with an actual flattop instead of a wig.

Personally I'm hoping we get a more visually comic faithful Green Goblin in the sequel. Along with a more comic faithful Spidey suit.

Yes, of course box office has no relation to how good a film it is. I wasn't suggesting that for a moment.

What I meant was that a solid box office will lead the studio to believe it has done the right thing, because it has been commercially successful. The money matters for studios, far more than critical ratings.

[psylockolussus]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

They didn't need to reboot Superman to be honest. We all know the origin story. Just recast and move forwards...

I'm surprised, though, that they haven't used Zack Snyder's stylish greenscreen technique (from 300) to create more fantasy and comic book projects. It's low budget and, although stylised, it works well for fantasy material.

Well I just hope Man of Steel won't visually look like Sucker Punch.

[The Strategos]

I think it'll look like alien crossed with 300.

[Llama_Shepherd]

Have you seen Snyder's Dawn of the Dead? There's very little of Snyder's desaturation/massive bluescreen work. Man of Steel uses even less, and is the most "real looking" film he has made.