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Old 11-24-2012, 12:52 PM   #526
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
Oh, and in regards to this potentially undoing OMD... I don't see it happening. Maybe I'm just not getting my hopes up but I just don't see OMD ever being undone completely. At best they might remember the deal but Peter and MJ would remain apart due to all that's happened since or something stupid like that.

But I'll say this... if I am proven wrong, OMD is completely undone, and Peter and MJ are married again... that will be the day that I jump back onto the book without complaint.
Not going to happen. Dan made a point of saying 700 will make him go into hiding. Undoing OMD wouldn't upset anyone, in fact even non-marriage fans would be pretty stoked to not have the "peter parker made a deal with the devil" thing not hanging over the book.

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

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Old 11-24-2012, 01:34 PM   #527
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Let's not blame the Hype for your inability to 'fap' properly.
Well it's not for my lack of practice.

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Old 11-24-2012, 02:44 PM   #528
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

"fap"???

I would have thought it was more of a "frap" sound effect...

frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrap frapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfrapfr apfrapfrap

At my age... it takes a little bit of time...


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Old 11-24-2012, 02:52 PM   #529
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

I can say, and I think I probably speak for a lot of people on them internets, no one, no one actually wants to know what it sounds like when any of you masturbate. Let's keep the disturbing sex facts to only Spider-Man disturbing sex facts. For example, right now, Peter Parker knows from memory what it's like to have sex with both MJ, Black Cat, and Aunt May. (That should be like a cold bath to most of you, most at least)

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:23 PM   #530
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fap

Urban Dictionary places fap's origins from Japanese comics so it's totally relevant to the conversation.

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Old 11-24-2012, 03:53 PM   #531
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Originally Posted by runawayboulder View Post
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fap

Urban Dictionary places fap's origins from Japanese comics so it's totally relevant to the conversation.
I don't know what the fact that you researched that makes you...

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Let me see .. Republicans are mostly gay ... Democrats oppose Republicans ... so Democrats are homophobic! :eek:

OMG, it makes sense now. Does Fox News know about this?
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:35 PM   #532
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Dry Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Originally Posted by moraldeficiency View Post
For example, right now, Peter Parker knows from memory what it's like to have sex with both MJ, Black Cat, and Aunt May. (That should be like a cold bath to most of you, most at least)
*Screams of eternal torment*

Why?! Whyyyyyyyyy

Maybe that's why Pete's no longer spidey? He stops Doc Ock, kills him and himself for that horrible vision.

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Old 11-24-2012, 08:06 PM   #533
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Not sure how it will go down, but something tells me this may be Dan preparing to retcon OMD.

Perhaps the body swap happened pre-OMD, and it was Ock who made the deal. This would explain why it was so out of character, that many of us complained about. And remember, the deal saved Aunt May, and we know Ock and May have a history.

But, yeah, one of my crackpot theories did have Pete dieing and meeting and confronting Mephisto. So who knows (besides Dan )? It will be interesting to see how this plays out!
Do you mean that Doc Ock swapped bodies, made the deal, and swapped back? Or that Doc Ock has been Peter the whole time since OMD? For the latter, I don't see how that would be possible because of ends of the earth and other evil things that Ock did since then, because I don't think Peter would do that.

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Old 11-25-2012, 10:18 PM   #534
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Not going to happen. Dan made a point of saying 700 will make him go into hiding. Undoing OMD wouldn't upset anyone, in fact even non-marriage fans would be pretty stoked to not have the "peter parker made a deal with the devil" thing not hanging over the book.
I did not mean OMD would be undone by 700. It would be undone by the end of Superior Spider-Man run. (IF that happens and it's a big if).

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Do you mean that Doc Ock swapped bodies, made the deal, and swapped back? Or that Doc Ock has been Peter the whole time since OMD? For the latter, I don't see how that would be possible because of ends of the earth and other evil things that Ock did since then, because I don't think Peter would do that.
I meant Ock has been Pete since OMD. It would explain all the out of character stuff from both OMD and BND. The thing about that, it would go into that whole Clone Saga thing saying the Pete we have been reading for x amount of years has not been Pete, that PO'ed many people.

But, for the record, I don't think that has happened. In more likelihood, this arc actually started with issue 600, and the swap happened sometime between that issue and now.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:50 AM   #535
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Quick thought about OMD and the potential of "OMD reversal"...

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

It was a story from 5 years ago.
The Powers That Be knew there was going to be push-back against it...
...but they pulled the trigger anyway because they (like EVERY Spider-Man editorial office AFTER Shooter made the call) thought the marriage wasn't a good call for the character's status quo.
Are there fans who disagree? Sure.
But the trigger was pulled.
Now that all the effort's been done to get ASM where it is, NO ONE is undoing it. Especially not now, that the book is regularly one of Marvel's best sellers.

This is where we're at.

Arguing about it and speculating about it-- while fun internet fodder for the message boards-- is, in the end, time wasted.
Because it AIN'T getting undone.

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Old 11-26-2012, 06:16 AM   #536
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Originally Posted by Dan_Slott View Post
Quick thought about OMD and the potential of "OMD reversal"...

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

It was a story from 5 years ago.
The Powers That Be knew there was going to be push-back against it...
...but they pulled the trigger anyway because they (like EVERY Spider-Man editorial office AFTER Shooter made the call) thought the marriage wasn't a good call for the character's status quo.
Are there fans who disagree? Sure.
But the trigger was pulled.
Now that all the effort's been done to get ASM where it is, NO ONE is undoing it. Especially not now, that the book is regularly one of Marvel's best sellers.

This is where we're at.

Arguing about it and speculating about it-- while fun internet fodder for the message boards-- is, in the end, time wasted.
Because it AIN'T getting undone.

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Old 11-26-2012, 06:17 AM   #537
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Well, I was hoping that this whole Superior Spider-Man saga was going to lead eventually lead to that day and I know for a fact that I'm not the only one. When you said you were going underground after 698 (which I guess isn't true anymore), you kept saying over and over "keep reading". Why dangle that carrot to begin with if you're gonna pull the rug out now?

I suppose this means there's no point in buying Superior if there's no real ultimate payoff...?

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Old 11-26-2012, 07:29 AM   #538
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Well, I was hoping that this whole Superior Spider-Man saga was going to lead eventually lead to that day and I know for a fact that I'm not the only one.
No. You're one of a FEW that, after 5 years, still care enough to post/rant about it. That number is dwindling more and more. (I'm not saying "those that don't care"-- I'm qualifying-- "those that care enough to POST".)

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When you said you were going underground after 698 (which I guess isn't true anymore)...
Nope. Check your quotes. Going underground AFTER #700-- and not really popping up to interact w/ fans on the web until after SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN #1 comes out.

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...you kept saying over and over "keep reading". Why dangle that carrot to begin with if you're gonna pull the rug out now?
I have NEVER EVER EVER dangled the "carrot" of OMD being undone. I have been adamant, steadfast, and unwavering-- staying on point 100% from day 1 of Brand New Day, that OMD was never ever ever ever getting undone. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I suppose this means there's no point in buying Superior if there's no real ultimate payoff...?
The point in buying SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN is (at LEAST) threefold:
1) It's going to be AWESOME!
2) Ryan Stegman is going to set the world on fire with his art.
3) The ULTIMATE payoff is a story that's been seeded in MULTIPLE places for 100 issues! Seriously, is there ANY book in the industry that's been playing that much of a "long game"? (And YOU'RE talking about "no ultimate payoff". Pfft! That's 100 issues of payoff!)

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Old 11-26-2012, 07:33 AM   #539
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Slott View Post
Quick thought about OMD and the potential of "OMD reversal"...

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

It was a story from 5 years ago.
The Powers That Be knew there was going to be push-back against it...
...but they pulled the trigger anyway because they (like EVERY Spider-Man editorial office AFTER Shooter made the call) thought the marriage wasn't a good call for the character's status quo.
Are there fans who disagree? Sure.
But the trigger was pulled.
Now that all the effort's been done to get ASM where it is, NO ONE is undoing it. Especially not now, that the book is regularly one of Marvel's best sellers.

This is where we're at.

Arguing about it and speculating about it-- while fun internet fodder for the message boards-- is, in the end, time wasted.
Because it AIN'T getting undone.
Really, every editor?

I've always found it puzzling why people thought it was such a bad idea. I'm no massive proponent of either the marriage (or even Spider-Man, for that matter, actually), but it always stuck me as a perfectly organic and natural progression for the character - and, I dunno, it never really made him feel old or uninteresting to me.

But maybe that's because I got married at 22.

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Old 11-26-2012, 07:46 AM   #540
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Really, every editor?
Yes. Everyone EXCEPT Salicrup, who was invested in it 'cause it happened under his watch.
Every editor, in their own way, at some point tried to jettison the marriage.
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...but it always stuck me as a perfectly organic and natural progression for the character - and, I dunno, it never really made him feel old or uninteresting to me.
I'm sure the people on MOONLIGHTING felt that way about Dave and Maddie too. :-)
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But maybe that's because I got married at 22.
Exactly. And while the book is for YOU-- it's also for the BIGGER YOU (which is everyone else). Unlike, say, a character like the Elongated Man, Spider-Man was never constructed to be a married character.
Especially as Marvel's flagship character-- appealing to the widest possible base. While it's cool for a generation that grew up alongside Spidey-- and "progressed" alongside with him-- while THEY could find something to identify with and take "ownership" of. But Spider-Man ISN'T just for them. Spider-Man is for EVERYONE.
Stan Lee has stated emphatically and categorically that if he KNEW just how popular and how long sustained Spider-Man would be as a franchise-- he NEVER would have graduated him from high school.

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Old 11-26-2012, 07:57 AM   #541
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Yawn.... Slott was my favorite writer until he came on the boards and started sounding like a used car salesman. Youre proud of your work... Awesome. But some still arnt happy and theyre allowed to be weather it makes a lick of sense to you or not.

I still have yet to see any true reason why other than "whos peter sleeping with now" stories, couldnt of been told post omd.... I mean really... No one is that ignorant to say that "the marriage is so boring it kept aunt may from marrying jameson sr, mj from working and having a social life, harry osborn from returning, peter from finally using his brain for money.... Etc etc..."

Id say no one on earth is that naive... But then again there's still people who think weddings mean the end of life... And a womans place is barefoot and in the kitchen

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Old 11-26-2012, 08:18 AM   #542
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

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Yes. Everyone EXCEPT Salicrup, who was invested in it 'cause it happened under his watch.
Every editor, in their own way, at some point tried to jettison the marriage.

I'm sure the people on MOONLIGHTING felt that way about Dave and Maddie too. :-)

Exactly. And while the book is for YOU-- it's also for the BIGGER YOU (which is everyone else). Unlike, say, a character like the Elongated Man, Spider-Man was never constructed to be a married character.
Especially as Marvel's flagship character-- appealing to the widest possible base. While it's cool for a generation that grew up alongside Spidey-- and "progressed" alongside with him-- while THEY could find something to identify with and take "ownership" of. But Spider-Man ISN'T just for them. Spider-Man is for EVERYONE.
Stan Lee has stated emphatically and categorically that if he KNEW just how popular and how long sustained Spider-Man would be as a franchise-- he NEVER would have graduated him from high school.
Yes, but a couple things...

1. I didn't really grow up with Spider-Man. I started reading in 2004, so that personal progression/connection you speak of was never there for me. For me, the marriage as merely just always been logical and pretty wholly inoffensive.

2. Also, my main point really is that I don't understand why/how people feel conversely. Again, I'm not hard-set against it, and I'd like to at least comprehend exactly why so many important people feel it's so distasteful.

No offense of course, but I honestly think it might be due to you guys having grown up with Spider-Man that makes you so against the marriage. It's that age old desire to keep thigs static and unmoving in one's golden days. So many guys in their 30s and 40s grew up with Spider-Man when he was still single, and that's how they always want him to be...because that's who they became enamored with personally.

3. I'm too young to know what Moonlighting is. If it makes a difference, I liked it when Corey and Topanga got married.

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Old 11-26-2012, 08:28 AM   #543
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I'm so sick of talking about OMD.
It really has zero to do with any of my work from the past 5 years.
I didn't work on OMD.
I've never written a scene with Mephisto in it-- or called back to OMD-- or anything of the like.

Yet because some people can't move past a story from 5 years ago, and INSIST on dragging it into EVERY online conversation or examination of what myself and my coworkers are doing, I'm constantly in the position of repeating how it really does have NO bearing on the stories I'm choosing to tell about my FAVORITE character.

I've written stories with a married Spider-Man before. Had fun doing it.

I've written stories about an unmarried Spider-Man and had fun doing those too.

I've written Spider-Man in a couple different "continuities" as well-- ALL FUN.

End of the day, NONE of the 100 plus Spider-Man stories I've worked on have ONE IOTA to say about OMD.
It's a vocal and stubborn section of fandom that wants to make EVERYTHING about OMD no matter what the topic of discussion is ACTUALLY about.
"Dan Slott used to be my favorite writer before..."
Ugh.
I get it. There's an old saying, "Never meet your heroes."
Well, guess what, the same thing holds true in reverse as well-- "Never meet some of the fans." :-P

Look, Spider-Man ISN'T about a marriage.
The book isn't called "The Amazing Married Spider-Man."
There are LOTS of "Spider-Men" out there: 616 Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Sam Raimi Spider-Man, Marc Webb Spider-Man, '67 cartoon Spider-Man, the one from the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, the one from the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, the one from the SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED cartoon on the planet of animal men...

WHATEVER.

They're ALL Spider-Man.
And the marriage has NEVER been a DEFINING aspect about them.

For the past 2 years I've had the honor and privilege of working on the Big Time run of Spider-Man. It's been the adventures of a Spider-Man that I wanted to tell. I've had a blast doing it! And I am VERY grateful for the fans who've supported it. And from Day 1 all the way till it ends in ASM #700, it has just been about that.

Anyone who's tried to interject some kind of ANTI-OMD agenda into it-- or let THAT story color their perceptions of it-- that's on THEM. It's not there in the plots, scripts, pencils, inks, letters, or colors. It just ISN'T.

You CHOOSE which continuity baggage you want to lug around and bring WITH you on any story-- whether it's something you didn't like from OMIT, OMD, Sins Past, The Other, Spider-Totems, Judas Traveler stories, the Clone Saga, Kraven's Last Hunt, the Black Costume era, spider-mobiles, six-armed Spider-Man, or what-have-you. I can't control that. That's up to you.

I once had a guy DETERMINED to hate my run on SHE-HULK because I wasn't dedicating pages or stories to somehow bring back Scott Lang (who was killed over in AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED).
I've had a reader who was LIVID that I portrayed the DC Adventures Universe version of The Creeper the WAY he was in the cartoons-- as opposed to how that reader liked them in Pre-Zero Hour DC Continuity.
WHATEVER.

"And a womans place is barefoot and in the kitchen..."
Yes. That's EXACTLY what EVERY Spider-Man writer believes.
Oh Dear God GET OVER YOURSELF.

Everyone brings their own baggage.
And I'm really, honestly, 100% done with dealing with put-upon fans who insist on dragging THEIR OMD baggage with them when talking about all-things-Spider-Man.
It's like you could show a Rorschach test to some of the specific people who post here-- and their first reaction wouldn't be "Butterfly" or "2 ducks" or even "inky blobs"... No. It'd be "OMD!" "MEPHISTO!" "JOEPHISTO!" or "MARY JANE'S WEDDING DRESS BY WILLI SMITH BEING PISSED ON BY STEVE WACKER, FORCE FED TO A BABY HARP SEAL, AND THEN BEATEN TO DEATH BY THE BRAND NEW DAY WRITING TEAM!" :-P

It's been 5 years. Going on 6. Well over 100 issues-- over a SEVENTH of the entire run of Spider-Man which has NOTHING to do with OMD. Maybe it's time to look at things differently? WITHOUT some of that baggage?

If YOU want to approach the work that myself and my coworkers have produced with an open mind and judge it on its own merits-- I honestly think you'll have a fun time.

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Old 11-26-2012, 08:29 AM   #544
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

While we're on the topic of OMD - I've personally never seen the point to complaining about what changes happen to a comic. There's enough Spidey comics from back in the day to go by; if you prefer the way it was then, just go on reading them like you would watching an old movie or show. Nothing's going to change those stories you love, and if there's one thing that's never going to change about comics, it's change itself. I'd personally rather read about an aging Peter with a career in science than a young Peter still juggling being Spidey and having a girlfriend while taking pictures of himself. No one was complaining like they do now when Peter went from high school, to college, and then to teaching. Obviously little things like this are nothing compared to enormous retconning and such, but personally I'm always open to something new and different. It is what it is then and now.

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Old 11-26-2012, 09:02 AM   #545
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Way to upset Dan Slott, runaway.

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Old 11-26-2012, 10:03 AM   #546
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

I won't quote everything but some thoughts on Dan's posts.

1) You actually did throw back to OMD a bit in the first issue of Big Time, in that Peter/MJ scene that laughed at the idea of them being married. Now, that was likely the last and there's no reason to criticize your whole run based on it, but there was that. And sadly, because it was in the first issue, it set the mood for any reader who was attempting to move beyond OMD (myself included).

2) While your run doesn't reference or deal with OMD, it's still the bi-product. Every issue that happens post-OMD is showing the single Spider-Man that's never been married, etc. And so, whether you want your run connected to OMD or not, it always will be, because it's the OMD status quo. For some fans, like me, that's still enough to turn me away from the title, not that your title is bad, simply because it isn't the Spider-Man that I've loved. If the book was sold once a month at $3 an issue I might be more prone to stick with it and adapt to the new status quo, but I've never been given that oppertunity.

Adding to that, you were one of the architects of BND, which followed up on OMD. You wrote the first arc following OMD. I think that will always linger in people's mind, so your Big Time run will always be linked to BND/OMD. The next guy will likely have an easier time distancing himself from that story. I think you'll be stuck with it for as long as you're on the title, whether it's fair or not.

3) And the last thing is this... it's hypocritical to claim that people should move on from a story that happened 5 or 6 years ago when "every editor" since the marriage tried to change the marriage for 20 years. It's like the people behind the scenes were doing what we're being accused of doing now, and when they got their way, they are trying to make us feel bad or petty over being just like them. It's silly. Should we not follow suit and complain for 20 years until someone from our generation takes charge and "fixes" what should have never happened? No, we're justified... but that's not to say we should put the blame of OMD on shoulders where it shouldn't be.


Now, with all that said... it's nothing new. Personally, I've stopped complaining about it to the level that I used to because I've become aware that Marvel doesn't give a crap about my portion of the Spider-Man readership. It's not that I don't care enough to complain, it's that they don't care enough about what I have to say, so why waste my breath about it? I went from loyal Spider-Man reader for over a decade to a burden because of something THEY chose to do. Yay! I hate that. I love Marvel and dream of writing for them someday (though their submission policy makes that impossible for someone like me, a nobody novelist first who only dabbles in comic book writing), but that's life. Sometimes you're just going to disagree.

I don't blame Dan for OMD and admit that the first 12 issues or so of Big Time that I read was fantastic, just no longer my cup of tea. I read it still hoping for "my" Spider-Man and complained when Dan wrote a different Spider-Man. I now feel that I was wrong to do so. I've come to terms with "my" Spider-Man being a thing of the past. I may not favor Dan's take on the character, but it's not a bad take, just different. Dan's doing a fine job and I no longer push people away from the comic or hope it tanks (well, maybe if it would bring the marriage back). I accept OMD as a battle that I "lost" and the character's world, in my opinion, is now lacking due to it. But I accept that and have moved on for the most part.

I'm just eager for the day when Dan writes something else so I can enjoy one of his titles like I enjoyed Avengers: Initiative. Though it won't be any time soon, I'm ready for his next work.

Generation X mini?

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:01 PM   #547
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
I won't quote everything but some thoughts on Dan's posts.

1) You actually did throw back to OMD a bit in the first issue of Big Time, in that Peter/MJ scene that laughed at the idea of them being married. Now, that was likely the last and there's no reason to criticize your whole run based on it, but there was that. And sadly, because it was in the first issue, it set the mood for any reader who was attempting to move beyond OMD (myself included).

2) While your run doesn't reference or deal with OMD, it's still the bi-product. Every issue that happens post-OMD is showing the single Spider-Man that's never been married, etc. And so, whether you want your run connected to OMD or not, it always will be, because it's the OMD status quo. For some fans, like me, that's still enough to turn me away from the title, not that your title is bad, simply because it isn't the Spider-Man that I've loved. If the book was sold once a month at $3 an issue I might be more prone to stick with it and adapt to the new status quo, but I've never been given that oppertunity.

Adding to that, you were one of the architects of BND, which followed up on OMD. You wrote the first arc following OMD. I think that will always linger in people's mind, so your Big Time run will always be linked to BND/OMD. The next guy will likely have an easier time distancing himself from that story. I think you'll be stuck with it for as long as you're on the title, whether it's fair or not.

3) And the last thing is this... it's hypocritical to claim that people should move on from a story that happened 5 or 6 years ago when "every editor" since the marriage tried to change the marriage for 20 years. It's like the people behind the scenes were doing what we're being accused of doing now, and when they got their way, they are trying to make us feel bad or petty over being just like them. It's silly. Should we not follow suit and complain for 20 years until someone from our generation takes charge and "fixes" what should have never happened? No, we're justified... but that's not to say we should put the blame of OMD on shoulders where it shouldn't be.


Now, with all that said... it's nothing new. Personally, I've stopped complaining about it to the level that I used to because I've become aware that Marvel doesn't give a crap about my portion of the Spider-Man readership. It's not that I don't care enough to complain, it's that they don't care enough about what I have to say, so why waste my breath about it? I went from loyal Spider-Man reader for over a decade to a burden because of something THEY chose to do. Yay! I hate that. I love Marvel and dream of writing for them someday (though their submission policy makes that impossible for someone like me, a nobody novelist first who only dabbles in comic book writing), but that's life. Sometimes you're just going to disagree.

I don't blame Dan for OMD and admit that the first 12 issues or so of Big Time that I read was fantastic, just no longer my cup of tea. I read it still hoping for "my" Spider-Man and complained when Dan wrote a different Spider-Man. I now feel that I was wrong to do so. I've come to terms with "my" Spider-Man being a thing of the past. I may not favor Dan's take on the character, but it's not a bad take, just different. Dan's doing a fine job and I no longer push people away from the comic or hope it tanks (well, maybe if it would bring the marriage back). I accept OMD as a battle that I "lost" and the character's world, in my opinion, is now lacking due to it. But I accept that and have moved on for the most part.

I'm just eager for the day when Dan writes something else so I can enjoy one of his titles like I enjoyed Avengers: Initiative. Though it won't be any time soon, I'm ready for his next work.

Generation X mini?
Very well said and i dont blame dan either (which is actually why it bothers me so much when Dan pretty much shoves the "there will be no omd reversal" down our throats... I find it very disrespectful to many long time readers who arnt happy with the status quo (notice most only harp on dan when he harps on them for even remotely mentioning omd...)

I personally (and at no fault to dans writting) am spending my money on things im much happier with

Dan youre a great wtiter stuck

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:22 PM   #548
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

If it's any consolation Dan, I never cared that they ended Spider-Man's marriage, and the writing on the comic over the last few years has been the best the character has seen in ages.

Now what DC did to destroy Superman and Lois Lane's marriage....DC and I are no longer on speaking terms.

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:23 PM   #549
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Personally, I think both the fans and the editors are waaay too concerned about it than they should be.

As JewHob said, yes, fans should have gotten over it after 6 years, and likewise, the editors shouldn't have held onto it for 20 years either. It's not a defining aspect of the character, and I've honestly never heard anyone even come close to saying "I'm not reading Spider-Man because he's married."

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Old 11-26-2012, 01:08 PM   #550
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Slott View Post
I'm so sick of talking about OMD.
It really has zero to do with any of my work from the past 5 years.
I didn't work on OMD.
I've never written a scene with Mephisto in it-- or called back to OMD-- or anything of the like.

Yet because some people can't move past a story from 5 years ago, and INSIST on dragging it into EVERY online conversation or examination of what myself and my coworkers are doing, I'm constantly in the position of repeating how it really does have NO bearing on the stories I'm choosing to tell about my FAVORITE character.

I've written stories with a married Spider-Man before. Had fun doing it.

I've written stories about an unmarried Spider-Man and had fun doing those too.

I've written Spider-Man in a couple different "continuities" as well-- ALL FUN.

End of the day, NONE of the 100 plus Spider-Man stories I've worked on have ONE IOTA to say about OMD.
It's a vocal and stubborn section of fandom that wants to make EVERYTHING about OMD no matter what the topic of discussion is ACTUALLY about.
"Dan Slott used to be my favorite writer before..."
Ugh.
I get it. There's an old saying, "Never meet your heroes."
Well, guess what, the same thing holds true in reverse as well-- "Never meet some of the fans." :-P

Look, Spider-Man ISN'T about a marriage.
The book isn't called "The Amazing Married Spider-Man."
There are LOTS of "Spider-Men" out there: 616 Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Sam Raimi Spider-Man, Marc Webb Spider-Man, '67 cartoon Spider-Man, the one from the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, the one from the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, the one from the SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED cartoon on the planet of animal men...

WHATEVER.

They're ALL Spider-Man.
And the marriage has NEVER been a DEFINING aspect about them.

For the past 2 years I've had the honor and privilege of working on the Big Time run of Spider-Man. It's been the adventures of a Spider-Man that I wanted to tell. I've had a blast doing it! And I am VERY grateful for the fans who've supported it. And from Day 1 all the way till it ends in ASM #700, it has just been about that.

Anyone who's tried to interject some kind of ANTI-OMD agenda into it-- or let THAT story color their perceptions of it-- that's on THEM. It's not there in the plots, scripts, pencils, inks, letters, or colors. It just ISN'T.

You CHOOSE which continuity baggage you want to lug around and bring WITH you on any story-- whether it's something you didn't like from OMIT, OMD, Sins Past, The Other, Spider-Totems, Judas Traveler stories, the Clone Saga, Kraven's Last Hunt, the Black Costume era, spider-mobiles, six-armed Spider-Man, or what-have-you. I can't control that. That's up to you.

I once had a guy DETERMINED to hate my run on SHE-HULK because I wasn't dedicating pages or stories to somehow bring back Scott Lang (who was killed over in AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED).
I've had a reader who was LIVID that I portrayed the DC Adventures Universe version of The Creeper the WAY he was in the cartoons-- as opposed to how that reader liked them in Pre-Zero Hour DC Continuity.
WHATEVER.

"And a womans place is barefoot and in the kitchen..."
Yes. That's EXACTLY what EVERY Spider-Man writer believes.
Oh Dear God GET OVER YOURSELF.

Everyone brings their own baggage.
And I'm really, honestly, 100% done with dealing with put-upon fans who insist on dragging THEIR OMD baggage with them when talking about all-things-Spider-Man.
It's like you could show a Rorschach test to some of the specific people who post here-- and their first reaction wouldn't be "Butterfly" or "2 ducks" or even "inky blobs"... No. It'd be "OMD!" "MEPHISTO!" "JOEPHISTO!" or "MARY JANE'S WEDDING DRESS BY WILLI SMITH BEING PISSED ON BY STEVE WACKER, FORCE FED TO A BABY HARP SEAL, AND THEN BEATEN TO DEATH BY THE BRAND NEW DAY WRITING TEAM!" :-P

It's been 5 years. Going on 6. Well over 100 issues-- over a SEVENTH of the entire run of Spider-Man which has NOTHING to do with OMD. Maybe it's time to look at things differently? WITHOUT some of that baggage?

If YOU want to approach the work that myself and my coworkers have produced with an open mind and judge it on its own merits-- I honestly think you'll have a fun time.
1. For someone who's considered a "continuity guy" whose stories consistently reference past events, it's a bit odd that you're upset other people don't get over continuity you don't like. OMD happened, like it or not, screaming for people to stop talking about it doesn't change that fact. Uncle Ben's death is still important like 70 years after it happened because it was a major event with serious impact on the character. OMD was Spider-Man making a deal with the devil, it's a big deal, it's not going away any more than ben's death, stacy's death, the clone saga or anything else major that happened in the character's life.

2. People speculating on stories isn't a bad thing, it's almost what the internet is for. If you don't like people speculating don't go on the internet or talk to human beings cause we do a lot of that kind of thing from comics to sports to politics. OMD will eventually be addressed, it's going to happen don't kid yourself that in the future of Spider-Man it'll never come up again, so the question of when and how is valid.

3. You go from gleeful interviews about how your changes devastate some fans, recently expressing schadenfreude in telling a couple how Spider-Man and MJ will be back together then saying that Spider-Man won't be Peter Parker to not understanding how people can't get over something. You can't have it both ways. Either you love the reaction you're clearly trying for or you hate it.

4. For someone that doesn't want to talk about OMD you sure talk a lot about OMD.

5. Hey which writer was it that was gossiping ASM in a strip club?

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Last edited by moraldeficiency; 11-26-2012 at 01:11 PM. Reason: god my grammar can suck at times, ok most of the time
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