State your unpopular film related opinion - Part 9

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Blackman

Also unrelated popular opinion, I think: Prometheus=meh

I don't think that is a popular or unpopular opinion. I think Prometheus has a mixed reaction.

[CConn]

Yeah, it has a weird reaction so far. Even people who rate it 7/10 or 8/10 seem more disappointed with it than anything.

[spider-neil]

Unpopular opinion, I think you can count on one hand (not including the thumb) superhero movies that have definatively translated the hero from the page to the screen.

300
Sin City
Kick Ass
The Crow (maybe)
Hellboy (maybe)

Other than that the movies differ either by;
a) The costume (X-Men, Batman, etc)
b) Characterization of the hero (Spidey doesn't quip, Batman not a detective, etc)
c) Characterization of the supporting cast (Mary Jane, Alfred, etc)
c) Villians (Lex Luther, Kingpin, etc)
That said when you are having to translate hundreds of pages into a 2 hour movie changes have to be made so what's important is the ESSENCE of the character if a perfect transfer from page to screen can't be achieved.

[CConn]

How can a characterization ever be definitive though? Superheroes' characterization changes with every new writer in the comics.

Batman has gone from being a grim avenger, to a doting, crime-fighting stepdad, to a psychotic vigilante, etc.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by CConn

How can a characterization ever be definitive though? Superheroes' characterization changes with every new writer in the comics.

Batman has gone from being a grim avenger, to a doting, crime-fighting stepdad, to a psychotic vigilante, etc.

I guess when there have been so many iterations of a character it is nigh on impossible to do the definative version, as I said it's the essence that is important but there are characters on the big screen who for me haven't even come close;

Daredevil
Fantastic Four
Punisher

I also want to see Riddler, Lex Luther, Two Face (yes, Two face) Green Goblin done properly.

[gwynplaine]

I thought Affleck was a decent Daredevil.

[gwynplaine]

That said I would love to see a really great Daredevil film one day.

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by CConn

How can a characterization ever be definitive though? Superheroes' characterization changes with every new writer in the comics.

Batman has gone from being a grim avenger, to a doting, crime-fighting stepdad, to a psychotic vigilante, etc.

And a pilgrim. Don't forget a pilgrim.

[bullets]

Originally Posted by gwynplaine

I hate Batman Forever.

I have several issues with Batman Forever but still find it enjoyable. I think they nailed the characterization of Robin, so it's not a total loss.

Batman and Robin is a different story. It's hilarious to watch Arnold puns on youtube but I'm not sure I could sit though the duration of the film again

Originally Posted by gwynplaine

That said I would love to see a really great Daredevil film one day.

I think the reboots of Daredevil and Fantastic Four stand a decent chance.

[Watchman]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

And a pilgrim. Don't forget a pilgrim.

The puritan protector, fighting the forces of an alien space god and his time travelling weapons. Bruce Wayne hopes the next leap is the leap home. But it's not and he's a pirate.

[Parker Wayne]

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg Bop

I love the crime genre. I can't choose my favorite characters so easily, but I can choose them in rankings of standard Cosa Nostra positions.

Favorite Boss: Vito Corleone

Favorite Adviser/Right hand man: Mr. French*

Favorite Underboss: Santino Corleone

Favorite Caporegime/Lieutenant: Tony Montana*

Favorite Made Guy: Lefty Ruggiero

Favorite Associate: Jimmy Conway

My favorite mob villain would be Hyman Roth and there's noway I can decide what my favorite mob movie killing would be.

Not bad, not bad at all.

Originally Posted by CConn

I think its just that Depp has gotten really lazy as of late.

He definitely has the talent to be a really incredible actor, and exhibited that talent a lot early in his career, but it feels like he's been phoning it in for the past decade or so.

Depp has certainly gotten lazy. My favorite role of his in the last 10 years has been his cameo in 21 Jump Street.

Originally Posted by bullets

I have several issues with Batman Forever but still find it enjoyable. I think they nailed the characterization of Robin, so it's not a total loss.

I think they nailed the characterization of Robin too. I think they did a good job with his character and how he is portrayed in Batman and Robin as a whiny kid is what overshadows Robin in the movies. Batman Forever is the movie with the most potential but any potential got destroyed with Schumacher.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by bullets

I think the reboots of Daredevil and Fantastic Four stand a decent chance.

Put the Fantastic Four where they belong, in the 60's at the height of the space race.

For Daredevil, adapt his greatest story ever. Born again, where the Kingpin finds out who he is and destroys his life. Forget the orgin and just get on putting Murdock through the wringer.

[Parker Wayne]

WIth Fantastic Four, I'd rather keep them in the present. They can be adapted right to the present.

And I believe Born Again is what David Slade is adapting.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by Parker Wayne

WIth Fantastic Four, I'd rather keep them in the present. They can be adapted right to the present.

And I believe Born Again is what David Slade is adapting.

I think the FF sensibilites are too rooted in the 60's and come across hooky when seen in the present. X-Men worked wonderfully when set in the 60's.
The space race always gives them a legitimet reason to go into space and get hit by cosmic rays.

[Parker Wayne]

And X-men also worked wonderfully in present time. The 60s isn't the only time Fantastic Four could work.

That's like saying Batman and Superman only work in the 30s. And Spider-man only works in the 60s. Sure there are elements of each that still exist as they are products of their era, but that's for any creation.

[Blackman]

Yeah Id rather see a modern day Fantastic Four. I dont really get the appeal of setting it in the 60s

[Parker Wayne]

The appeal is that it was created in that era, so it's sensibilities and the tone of the comics would translate best to that decade. And ever since the success of X-men: First Class and Mad Men, more and more Fantastic Four fans have been wanting a movie in the 60s.

Personally, I think it's lazy because it's an easy way out and it's essentially giving up. Essentially you're saying "Okay, we tried with two FF movies, so there's no way a good Fantastic Four would ever take place in modern times". Once you go back to the 60s, there's no going back for FF.

[CConn]

I disagree that it would be lazy. It could be really cool. I don't think it's necessarily, and I won't say I prefer it, but I'd be totally okay if they choose to go that route.

Personally, the one thing I'd always like to see - and they'd never actually make this, as it wouldn't have mass appeal - is a Spider-Man movie that's set in the '60s, and focuses mainly on his relationship with Gwen Stacy - kinda like Spider-Man: Blue. That would be incredible.

[Batman jr.]

A new one:

There should be an X4 made by Singer in 2D.

[CConn]

No, there should be a remake of X3 made by Singer in 2D.

[spider-neil]

A family with superpowers sounds so corny but you set it in the 60's and that corny, wacky, wholesome nature because a strength. Look at the incredibles for instance, a nuclear family wih wholesome values, the homemaker wife (Sue/Helen), the bread winner father (Reed/Bob) and the errant children (Ben and Johnny/Violet and Dash) would work perfectly in this era, where as in a modern time frame those values are usually meet with cynisism and ridicule.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by CConn

No, there should be a remake of X3 made by Singer in 2D.

You mean like his Superman 3 remake in 2D?
Great success that was.

[spider-neil]

Originally Posted by CConn

is a Spider-Man movie that's set in the '60s, and focuses mainly on his relationship with Gwen Stacy - kinda like Spider-Man: Blue. That would be incredible.

I'm a little tired of Spidey movies that focus on his love life, besides, haven't we seen that already? I'm the certain the new movie will do this, if it were up to me I would have focus squarely on Peter and Conners. Lots of themes to explore with that without muddying the waters with a love interest but NOOOOOO you have to cater to the female demographic, the demographic that has next to no interest in superhero movies and have to be dragged along by their other halves.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

You mean like his Superman 3 remake in 2D?
Great success that was.

Sigh. You're really starting to grind my gears, neil. Let me explain something to you...

The reason why Superman Returns was poorly received was because fans didn't want or enjoy the entire concept of having a semi-sequel to the Donner movies. From its inception, the entire premise was flawed.

Conversely, with X-Men, Singer's concepts for the X-Men were very well received; unlike with Superman, fans liked his vision for the X-Men, and he had already proved twice over that he could make a high quality, and well-received X-Men movie - something he had not done with Superman. Having him make a third, would've merely been bringing his well-received series to a conclusion.

While its definitely supposition to say a Singer-made X3 would've been good, it's sheer foolishness to compare it to Superman Returns poorly due to the fundamental differences in their overall premises and initial fan reception.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

I'm a little tired of Spidey movies that focus on his love life, besides, haven't we seen that already?

1. Tough. It's a large part of his mythos.

2. No, they haven't. As you mentioned farther down in your post, the love interest is usually just put into the movie to appeal to the female demographic - and weren't really a creative or high quality representation of that part of Spider-Man's life. Not to mention, I personally think the way Raimi had Peter written/acted was utter ****, and that right there ruined any chance of his movies having any quality romantic subplot in them.

I'm the certain the new movie will do this, if it were up to me I would have focus squarely on Peter and Conners. Lots of themes to explore with that without muddying the waters with a love interest but NOOOOOO you have to cater to the female demographic, the demographic that has next to no interest in superhero movies and have to be dragged along by their other halves.

I didn't say "instead of TASM, I want this", I just said it's something I'd like to see. For all I care, it could be after six sausage fests with Spider-Man facing off with Lizard, Venom, and Paste Pot Pete.

And like I said...I know it'll never happen to begin with.