Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 2

[runawayboulder]

The idea isn't bad but it needs to have emotion. If it comes off the least bit wooden, it will fall flat and easily get ridiculed.

[Franklin Richards]

Originally Posted by DoomJester

Okay. Jean is returning. But why do you keep wishing for Emma's death? That's my home girl. I'm really hoping Cyclops killing Emma isn't his "hero/redemption/mea culpa) moment." it would be really bad for me

We're hoping for Emma's death because she's an evil ***** who has never paid for her crimes. She's a diabolical whore who's done nothing but shape Cyclops into the Magneto Wannabe that he is today.

Oh... and let's not forget Butter Rum.

[Manic]

Emma: "Doing the right thing doesn't come easy to me, but I'm trying to make up for my past mistakes."
Franklin:"F*** THAT EVIL B****!!"

Seriously, you don't complain about Magneto as much as you complain about Emma, and he's backslid back into villainy several times while she hasn't.

[Franklin Richards]

People didn't believe Magneto. Some people believe Emma and forget everything she's ever done.

[Manic]

Kitty still hates her guts, everybody BUT Scott believed she really had turned on the team during the Dark Avengers crossover, some of the students hate her for getting their friends killed, Danger thought she was preparing to betray the X-Men, Rachel hates her guts, it seemed like nobody wanted her in the X-Men after the sentinels destroyed Genosha, nobody in X-Factor likes her, and Emma herself said she doesn't trust her own judgement.

The other X-Men like and trust Emma about as much as they do Magneto.

[Franklin Richards]

...and yet the fans born after 1986 seem to think she's a "good guy". She's never paid for her crimes in any way. In fact she's been rewarded with clout in the X-Universe. She a member of the Phoenix 5. Shouldn't Rachel or Storm or Nightcrawler be in that group? She takes valuable page time from real X-Men. The only time we should see Emma is during a Hellfire Club arc.

[Manic]

I think we've all established that nothing about the Phoenix 5 is good and her being in it is nothing to be proud of, neither as an Emma hater or an Emma fan. I wouldn't wish Storm membership in that little mess, nobody writing this event seems to remember who the hell Rachel is to begin with (and that's hardly Emma's fault), and Nightcrawler's been dead since Second Coming.

She isn't really taking page time away from anyone, as her main role for the past few years has been as Cyclops' co-leading girlfriend. If Emma wasn't around, Scott simply wouldn't have a co-leader and he'd probably be dating some other telepath in Jean's place.

You may not like Emma, but the truth of the matter if that, for the last 20 years, Emma Frost has been written as a morally questionable former-villain who's seeking redemption but always teeters on the edge of going back to her old ways. The characters in the comics don't entirely trust her, and the writers of the comics always play with her questionable morals for the sake of drama and the occasional twist. She's not an angel, and absolutely nobody treats her as such. She is, however, still a good guy. Not a very good good guy, but a good guy nonetheless.

[Franklin Richards]

An anti-hero is NOT a good guy. Just because Long John Silver likes little boys doesn't make him a good guy.

[Colossal Spoons]

Emma is pretty much Moonstone with telepathy. And nobody trusts Moonstone

[runawayboulder]

There hasn't been a reason established why the 5 chosen by the Phoenix were chosen to begin with...

[Havok83]

Oh dear lord, we are back to this Emma Frost is evil debate? Wasnt that last week's news?

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

There hasn't been a reason established why the 5 chosen by the Phoenix were chosen to begin with...

Hope rejected it and after Iron Man's device fragmented it, they were the only 5 mutants around save Wolverine, to accept it.

[runawayboulder]

Hmm...I thought there were more than 5 X-Men present. For some reason I recall Magneto, Psylocke and a few others there. I guess I remembered it wrong...

[Colossal Spoons]

Beast was there for sure, with Thor&Co

[Specter313]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

Hmm...I thought there were more than 5 X-Men present. For some reason I recall Magneto, Psylocke and a few others there. I guess I remembered it wrong...

Nope, that one issue of Uncanny showed those ones, the other members of the extinction team, talking about being left behind when Scott called his emergency teleport to the moon when he learned Hope was there.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Colossal Spoons

Beast was there for sure, with Thor&Co

True he was but like Wolverine, they'd both would have rejected it had the Phoenix gone to them. The Phoenix went to hosts who were willing to accept its power and carry out its mission

[Colossal Spoons]

Originally Posted by Havok83

True he was but like Wolverine, they'd both would have rejected it had the Phoenix gone to them. The Phoenix went to hosts who were willing to accept its power and carry out its mission

Right

[DoomJester]

Originally Posted by Franklin Richards

...and yet the fans born after 1986 seem to think she's a "good guy". She's never paid for her crimes in any way. In fact she's been rewarded with clout in the X-Universe. She a member of the Phoenix 5. Shouldn't Rachel or Storm or Nightcrawler be in that group? She takes valuable page time from real X-Men. The only time we should see Emma is during a Hellfire Club arc.

Actually, I was born 1986 and I do think she is a hero. I get that people, with longer memories, more well read than I, may think she is a villain but I think she's great- one of my favorite characters.

As far as her not paying for her crimes, I can't speak to that in a manner that will exonerate her with people who want to hate her. She's been on the line with all the other heroes for a long time and she's sacrificed a lot-- all the while a lot of people haven't trusted her. I don't know how much more she should "pay."

But regardless. I like her. I hope they don't shove her down the villainous route on this. She's got history with the phoenix and supposedly she owes it payback for Warsong so I hope that is dealt with.

[runawayboulder]

She falls into the category as a reformed villain. It's that simple. Same as Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Gambit, Black Cat, Puma, Black Widow, Wonder Man, Vision and the majority of the Thunderbolts.

[Franklin Richards]

False equivalency. Except for the T-Bolts. Who are EVIL as well.

[Specter313]

[Franklin Richards]

Did Spidey and The Thing kill Cyclops?

[runawayboulder]

Since Scott was on the Marvel NOW promo piece, chances are probably no. The good money is on Emma Frost.

[Franklin Richards]

But... but... where's her boobs? Can't have a pic of this upstanding hero unless she's dressed like a prostitute. Even traced.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

Since Scott was on the Marvel NOW promo piece, chances are probably no. The good money is on Emma Frost.

Scott currently possesses the PF. He could very well be killed off and the thing can resurrect him bc it feels he is needed for mutantkind to survive

[JewishHobbit]

But Marvel wouldn't kill off a character in an event only to immediately revive them!!!!

COUGH! xavier bucky thor COUGH!