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Old 07-02-2012, 03:36 PM   #1
Spidey_62
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Default The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

For those who have seen the movie already and for those who will be very shortly, what did you think of Rhys Ifans as Curt Connors/The Lizard and how did he stack up compared to the other villain's we've seen Spidey go up against on film?

Up till now it's been generally accepted that Doc Ock in SM2 was the best villain we've gotten so far. From the great visuals, the nuances of Alfred Molina's performance, so forth.

Was he better than Doc Ock or your favorite Spidey villain on film? Not as good?


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Old 07-02-2012, 03:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I will give you my opinion after tomorrow.
Good idea for a thread

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Old 07-02-2012, 09:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

The Lizard is my favorite on screen villan yet.

I saw the movie last night so there will be some spoilers. I loved the movie and Conners was one of my favorite things about the movie. He's not evil, he thinks what he is doing is right, and that makes for some of the best villans. He has lived his hole life feeling incomplete, wanting to make himself better. He talks to Peter about how angry he was when peters father disappeared and he felt like his chances of fixing himself were gone.

When he becomes the lizard, for the first time he feels complete, powerful. And he becomes addicted. He changes his goal from fixing human frailties, to making humans into the more powerful lizard cross species. He truly thinks he is helping the world by making us into these creatures.

Rhys Ifans performance was great, he pulled it off splendidly.

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Old 07-03-2012, 02:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I thought he was a Doc Ock Clone...
I still think Doc Ock was more believable. His obsession was based on obtaining a life goal.
Lizard man kinda reminded me of Iron Man's villian on how he went crazy/megalomania for no real reason.
Maybe if the serum had psychological side effects, but the movie never hinted to it.
The schizo also sorta came outta nowhere.

Is the Amazing Spiderman > Spider Man 2 ? Yes, I kinda feel altogether it was a better movie. But I don't know if Doc ock was topped from a character development perspective.

The acting was believable and solid.

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Old 07-03-2012, 02:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Have to say:

I DO NOT LIKE THE LIZARD.

Okay? I don't like him that much in the comics -- or in the animated series.

BUT -- boy did I like him in this.

I liked Connor's so much more than I expected. This is a monster, a creature villain. Something that is so silly and unrealistic that it usually takes me out of the story. But here, it works. It's believable. Every second of it.

I don't know where he ranks, at present, with the villains of the Rami films. I need to watch the film a few more times. I will say that he is near the top. He was a great adversary in this film and that Rhys did a wonderful job with the character. (NOTE: I did miss not seeing Billy and Martha, but he HAD a wedding ring).

He definitely challenges Dafoe and Molina for "Top Spidey Villain" crown.

And I am pleasantly surprised.

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I think the problem with most Spider-Man villains are one thing:

It's not the origins that make them special but their actions and rivalry with Spider-Man. So with most Spider-Man villains, they are 'created' within the film's timeframe and usually, they're scientistic minded genius with good intentions who got into an accident, and become blinded by their insanity. They also are sometimes father figures too.

So I think with Amazing Spider-Man 2, they just need to find a fresher approach to introduce the villain. I don't like Kraven as a character, but his backstory is always established from the get-go, so he can just jump right into the sequel as it. Samething with maybe Chameleon.

If all else, I like the Scorpion's tragic origins but you need to establish JJ's participation to his creation so that's tough.

With Green Goblin, his potential arc is fairly different from the first Raimi film so I'm glad they went with the sick angle.

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

This is a really good villain. Is he better than Molina? I honestly don't think so. The Lizard isn't as nuanced or quite as tragic, nor does he have a tragic fate like Doc Ock did. The Lizard is sent to jail, but he redeems himself slightly.

That being said, he manages to be incredibly tragic, you feel his desperation, and he really thinks he's doing the right thing. However, he also manages to kill a major character, something that only two original series villains (Sandman and Venom) managed to do, and only the latter was intentional.

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

They missed a huge opportunity by leaving out the Connors family, especially with the emphasis on Peter's search for a father figure. That moment with the kid on the bridge? Imagine that kid is Billy Connors, and we're in the Connors home. Now, the stakes are personal. Spider-Man isn't just saving the city, he's saving this boy's father - just as he wishes someone would've saved his. Dropped the ball, but otherwise Lizard is great.

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Yeah, I think they missed out on having the rest of the Connors clan involved. I wonder what happened to that.

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I swear to God that they cast the son Billy at one point, right?

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:28 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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I swear to God that they cast the son Billy at one point, right?
Unconfirmed, but there was an audition tape for a little boy for a Billy in a Columbia movie, so people ran with that as proof of the Lizard before Rhys' character had been announced. Huge opportunity missed as I reflect on that father/son reunion on the bridge.

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Old 07-03-2012, 03:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I think one trap us comic fan boys always fall into is we're trying to compare but movies are different art form to a more general fan base.

Leave the whole "i wish this was here because I liked it in the comics" outta the comic movie adaptation genre. You're only setting yourselves up for disappointment and ruining great movies for yourselves.

I do recognize the topic here is different. I definitely feel Connors having a family nor being able to be a father figure for Parker is a miss. But only for my selfish reasons. I remember Connor's and his family being such an integral part in Peter's 90's life. So it just felt like there was something missing.

I'd never thought that the film adaptation of Doc Ock would give him a wife while Connor's wouldn't have a family. But I'm just rambling now don't mind me

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I personally loved the lizard in the movie. Rhys' performance was amazing. I loved every second that he was on screen (I loved every second of the movie. ) But, what we still don't know is who that mysterious guy was talking to Connors in his cell. It seemed to me like the guy was an imaginary man, that Curt was seeing probably a side affect to the serum

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Old 07-03-2012, 07:14 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Rhys Ifans was just great. A understated and somewhat subtle performance as Connors. Loved it. Then of course after his first transformation he was more a comic-book style villain but that's the point isn't it?

Lizard CGI was good. Loved the way his skin looked. You could see the texture in it. Very reptilian. Loved his size, the way he moved. Loved the action scenes with him. The scene where he slams Spidey around with his tail then throws it and him away and regrow a new one was just top notch.

Hated (HATED!) two things. His plan was terribly bland. Man becomes lizard monster, wants to turn people into lizard monsters. They had set-up an interesting storyline about a broken man who not only had lost his best friend but now his research to seemingly inhumane corporate men, but instead of focusing on some sort of monstrous revenge to mirror Spider-Man's own search for Ben's killer...Must turn people into TEH LIZERDS!

And his face was ridiculous. Why give him a human visage when he barely says anything worthwhile haha. His dialogue was mostly: You won't stop my plans etc. His whole design was just top notch except for the terrible looking bland goomba face. Didn't make him look bad just...blander than he actually was.

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Old 07-03-2012, 08:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

It's unfortunate that Raimi decided to completely screw up the character of Doc Ock and give him The Lizard's story because they are very identical and I think that does hurt it a bit but in saying that he is my second favorite behind Norman

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Old 07-03-2012, 08:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

So far my movie villain ranking is:
  1. Doc Ock
  2. Green Goblin
  3. New Goblin
  4. Sandman
  5. Venom

I predict that The Lizard will fall right in between Green Goblin and New Goblin.

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Old 07-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

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It's unfortunate that Raimi decided to completely screw up the character of Doc Ock and give him The Lizard's story because they are very identical and I think that does hurt it a bit but in saying that he is my second favorite behind Norman
This!

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Old 07-03-2012, 09:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Lizard was the weakest point of the film for me. In context, he served his purpose. He looked great, sounded great, and payed great callbacks to his comic counterpart. Curt Connors, as a character, was far too underdeveloped, and the lack of his family in the film was certainly a missed opportunity. Another missed opportunity was the possible father-son relationship between Peter and Curt. I never once got the hint that Curt was anything more than a means for Peter to find out more about his father...they really could have expanded more upon the father/mentor relationship Pete has with Connors. Connors also descended into sinister villainy far too fast for my liking. Yes, the whole "mad scientist thinks he's doing good" was there, but after Curt's first transformation, he became a huge sinister prick almost immediately. It was very jarring and it would've been better to see the formula have a gradual effect on him as opposed to a very sudden one. I was also disappointed to not see a full on screen transformation into the Lizard. In the end, this film was more about Peter, and I'd rather an underdeveloped villain than an underdeveloped hero. Maybe a second viewing will ease my qualms, but that was what I gathered from last night.

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Old 07-03-2012, 09:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Lizard came off as both scary and crazy...so like The Lizard.

I have to say one thing, all the toys, memorabilia, and merch for The Lizard doesn't give it it's due. Because when you see it in motion and running, and crawling and just there is some amazing CGI work done to make it look large, real, but never take away from some of the features of Rhys Ifans

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Old 07-03-2012, 10:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

My list goes like this

1-Doc Ock
2-The Lizard
3-Green Goblin
4-Sandman
5-New Goblin
6-Venom

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:06 AM   #21
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Are we ranking in terms of EVERYTHING or just looks.

Cause in terms of looks, i still think they did a pretty great job on Venom. Sure, maybe the story behind him and the character isn't there, but on a purely aesthetic basis, Venom looked great.

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:07 AM   #22
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Doc Ock
Lizard
Green Goblin
New Goblin
Sandman
Venom

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I am going how they used the characters story arch and the character development along with the visuals.

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:08 AM   #24
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

I was going to say that the Lizard reminded me of the Goombas from the Super Mario Bros. movie, and thought maybe I was being too hard on the movie because of how much I loved Spidey 1 & 2, but then I found this link, so I'm definitely not alone.
http://nerdreactor.com/2011/11/30/th...ng-spider-man/

In my opinion Lizard falls dead last in comparison with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries:
1. Doc Ock
2. Green Goblin
3. New Goblin
4. Venom/Sandman/Lizard


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Old 07-03-2012, 11:09 AM   #25
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Default Re: The Lizard - How does he compare with Spidey's other onscreen adversaries?

Doc Ock
Lizard
New Goblin
Green Goblin
Venom
Sandman

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