EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

[marcvader]

He's a lefty.

[bubbadoom]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

In the original take, the sonic weapon IS his hand. What if he has to use his right hand for something but can't because it's a sonic gun? I just don't like the idea of that, it would make sense if it could shift back and forth.

That's the source of his hatred for the Panther, he destroyed Klaw's hand when he was a boy, after Klaw killed lil' Panther's pop! This is the foundation of their entire relationship.


Would it make sense to transform? My cell phone does not change into a razor, a gun, and what ever else I happen to need at the moment. Sure, it's a camera and god knows what else, but it's shape stays the same. The sonic cannon is the hand Klaw was dealt, if he has a transformer hand he should be thanking the Panther for the cool hand, not hating him.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by marcvader

He's a lefty.

I'm right-handed and even then, there are situations where I need my left hand.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by bubbadoom

That's the source of his hatred for the Panther, he destroyed Klaw's hand when he was a boy, after Klaw killed lil' Panther's pop! This is the foundation of their entire relationship.


Would it make sense to transform? My cell phone does not change into a razor, a gun, and what ever else I happen to need at the moment. Sure, it's a camera and god knows what else, but it's shape stays the same. The sonic cannon is the hand Klaw was dealt, if he has a transformer hand he should be thanking the Panther for the cool hand, not hating him.

Your cell phone is not like Klaw's technology, though. If someone destroyed my hand and I had to get a new one, I'd still be pissed at them, regardless of what my new hand could do. All that means is that Klaw now has more ways than one to conduct his revenge now.

[bubbadoom]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

Your cell phone is not like Klaw's technology, though. If someone destroyed my hand and I had to get a new one, I'd still be pissed at them, regardless of what my new hand could do. All that means is that Klaw now has more ways than one to conduct his revenge now.

Klaw's area of science is sound, not cybernetics - or at least it use to be.

Funny, I did get the Hudlin/Romita Jr. Panther run where all this transformer stuff was introduced, but I guess it did not stick with me, I assume at the time I was thinking what the hell is this - when did this happen to Klaw? Glad to see it was just this one time...

[bubbadoom]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

I still don't see why Klaw becoming a sound creature makes the character, you haven't come up with an argument on why that is interesting. Also I think Klaw's energy look kinda sucks and frankly it be easier for the actor to do his job if we don't bury him in makeup, just so he looks like a red and purple guy with a speedo. Its very limiting to the casting process and could prevent the best actor for the part from being hired.

I still don't see how Klaw being a sound creature makes him more interesting and how Klaw becoming a sound creature wouldn't just wouldn't be seen as contrived. Sometimes it seems way to easy to get powers in the Marvel Universe.

Really, you can not see how that is more interesting than just a flesh and blood man with a weapon on his hand...?

He
is
made
of
sound

Was the Red Skull limited by his make-up? Was Hellboy? I think not, so why would this be any different? That's what the character is.

[roach]

Being a sound creature makes him more interesting than a guy with a weapon hand.
It makes BP think outside the box on how to defeat him.
It limits the people who can take him on. If he's a guy with a weapon hand then anyone could take him on. Make him a sound creature and you have made him a task above common Shield agent.

[terry78]

^Point taken. Maybe some kind of split the difference.

[roach]

Originally Posted by terry78

^Point taken. Maybe some kind of split the difference.

while I wouldn't have him go all blood god La Magra(look at the original ending of Blade)
I think something along the lines of Sandman from Spider-man 3 would work.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by bubbadoom

Really, you can not see how that is more interesting than just a flesh and blood man with a weapon on his hand...?

He
is
made
of
sound

Was the Red Skull limited by his make-up? Was Hellboy? I think not, so why would this be any different? That's what the character is.

See here is the problem I have with the character in the comics, he converted his body into energy, which is a miracle of science. He has essentially made himself into something that is beyond human and he is still taking orders from the Wizard and joining the Frightful Four. Klaw has done something way more impressive then anything Wizard has done. Why is he even super villain anymore, if he is energy he can recreate a hand considering he is no longer flesh and blood. He has turned himself into pure energy and he still acts like a just petty thug.

Why does he still care about losing his hand when he is not even flesh and blood even more? There are million cool things he could do, instead he just joins Frightful Four or picks fights with BP. He is immortal, Klaw can just wait for him to die of old age. You think that becoming a being of pure energy would change your whole perspective on the universe, it seems like he has done something amazing and it just gets treated as mundane. I think could buy Klaw having a grudge against BP if he was just a human with a robot claw for a hand, rather then as a sound creature.

And really I think the fight would more personal if its a fist fight between Klaw with his robot hand and BP, rather just Klaw creating sound constructs and BP defeating with them with vibranium. I think Klaw being an energy creature makes the story more convoluted then it needs to be and adds nothing to the story besides some big CGI fight near the end. Frankly every time someone tries to fight an energy creature in super hero movie it looks bad, this sounds like it would be Absorbing Dad from the Hulk movie all over again.

[Chewy]

Well he would likely die shortly after he becomes a sound creature and fights Panther, so no worries there.

[roach]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

See here is the problem I have with the character in the comics, he converted his body into energy, which is a miracle of science. He has essentially made himself into something that is beyond human and he is still taking orders from the Wizard and joining the Frightful Four. Klaw has done something way more impressive then anything Wizard has done. Why is he even super villain anymore, if he is energy he can recreate a hand considering he is no longer flesh and blood. He has turned himself into pure energy and he still acts like a just petty thug.

Sure we can't have miracles of science....Ironman, Cap, Helicarriers, Gods and aliens, Tesseracts and caskets of winters

Why does he still care about losing his hand when he is not even flesh and blood even more? There are million cool things he could do, instead he just joins Frightful Four or picks fights with BP. He is immortal, Klaw can just wait for him to die of old age. You think that becoming a being of pure energy would change your whole perspective on the universe, it seems like he has done something amazing and it just gets treated as mundane. I think could buy Klaw having a grudge against BP if he was just a human with a robot claw for a hand, rather then as a sound creature.

This becomes his character flaw. Here we have a guy who is damn near immortal but cant let go of losing his hand to a lesser being. He holds a grudge. he wants revenge and now he has the means to do so.

And really I think the fight would more personal if its a fist fight between Klaw with his robot hand and BP, rather just Klaw creating sound constructs and BP defeating with them with vibranium. I think Klaw being an energy creature makes the story more convoluted then it needs to be and adds nothing to the story besides some big CGI fight near the end. Frankly every time someone tries to fight an energy creature in super hero movie it looks bad, this sounds like it would be Absorbing Dad from the Hulk movie all over again.

How does a normal guy with a robot hand pose a threat to BP?
A guy with a robot hand is a James Bond villain not a villain for a superhero

You dont have the big fight between BP and a cgi energy creature. You still have Klaw look human but composed of sound. Treat Klaw like Sandman or the T-1000 from T2.

By making Klaw a sound construct that can be destroyed by Vibranium you limit the people who can take him on. This is a job only Black Panther can handle. In a universe that is increasingly getting filled with superheroes this is going to be important. This needs to be a threat only BP can deal with.

My biggest issue with Avengers is that anyone could have taken out the aliens. They had to make it so Black Widow and Hawkeye could take out the aliens but it raised bigger questions and potholes. The army being an hour out and Cap having the police set up a perimeter instead of marching them down the street to help out....these were added to the script to make the Avengers be the only ones to handle the aliens.....I dont want to see the same thing with Black Panther.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by roach

How does a normal guy with a robot hand pose a threat to BP?

You dont have the big fight between BP and a cgi energy creature. You still have Klaw look human but composed of sound. Treat Klaw like Sandman or the T-1000 from T2.

By making Klaw a sound construct that can be destroyed by Vibranium you limit the people who can take him on. This is a job only Black Panther can handle. In a universe that is increasingly getting filled with superheroes this is going to be important. This needs to be a threat only BP can deal with.

My biggest issue with Avengers is that anyone could have taken out the aliens. They had to make it so Black Widow and Hawkeye could take out the aliens but it raised bigger questions and potholes. The army being an hour out and Cap having the police set up a perimeter instead of marching them down the street to help out....these were added to the script to make the Avengers be the only ones to handle the aliens.....I dont want to see the same thing with Black Panther.

Why can't he be comparable to a James Bond villain? BP is already pretty close to Bond as it is, and Bond villains are some of the best and most iconic. This is more than just a normal guy with a robot hand. This is a man with a personal vendetta against T'Challa, with an arsenal for a hand that can shift into more than one weapon. I don't see Panther doing all of his cool stunts and fighting moves against a being of pure sound, unless he's maneuvering to avoid Klaw's sonic attacks. A man-to-man fight would be my personal preference because it feels more personal imo.

Originally Posted by bubbadoom

Really, you can not see how that is more interesting than just a flesh and blood man with a weapon on his hand...?

He
is
made
of
sound

Was the Red Skull limited by his make-up? Was Hellboy? I think not, so why would this be any different? That's what the character is.

Red Skull was a pretty boring villain, though. Hellboy was great, but those guys were wearing prosthetics. What you're talking about is CGI for a being made of pure solidified sound.

[roach]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

Why can't he be comparable to a James Bond villain? BP is already pretty close to Bond as it is, and Bond villains are some of the best and most iconic. This is more than just a normal guy with a robot hand. This is a man with a personal vendetta against T'Challa, with an arsenal for a hand that can shift into more than one weapon. I don't see Panther doing all of his cool stunts and fighting moves against a being of pure sound, unless he's maneuvering to avoid Klaw's sonic attacks. A man-to-man fight would be my personal preference because it feels more personal imo.



Red Skull was a pretty boring villain, though. Hellboy was great, but those guys were wearing prosthetics. What you're talking about is CGI for a being made of pure solidified sound.

I dont know why CGI is not the evil when the most popular character of this summer(The Hulk) was all CGI.

How long is a man with a robot hand going to last against BP's stunts and fighting moves?
Klaw:"My robot hand will kill you"
Kick to the face. Klaw is unconscious.

Using the T-1000 as the basis we can have a pretty personal fight. No matter how much he kicks and punches this guy it doesnt affect him. Klaw is sound. You cant hurt sound but sound can hurt. Klaw's punches hurt like hell. BP cant beat him with fighting. He's gonna have to think his way out of this.
So you know have a compelling villain...vendetta and hand and all that
He outclasses the hero...which are the best kinds

Klaw doesnt have to turn into some giant sound creature.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by roach

I dont know why CGI is not the evil when the most popular character of this summer(The Hulk) was all CGI.

How long is a man with a robot hand going to last against BP's stunts and fighting moves?
Klaw:"My robot hand will kill you"
Kick to the face. Klaw is unconscious.

Using the T-1000 as the basis we can have a pretty personal fight. No matter how much he kicks and punches this guy it doesnt affect him. Klaw is sound. You cant hurt sound but sound can hurt. Klaw's punches hurt like hell. BP cant beat him with fighting. He's gonna have to think his way out of this.
So you know have a compelling villain...vendetta and hand and all that
He outclasses the hero...which are the best kinds

Klaw doesnt have to turn into some giant sound creature.

CGI isn't evil, that's not what I said. He asked how was a character like Klaw in sound form different from Red Skull or Hellboy. I answered the question by stating that the sound form would most likely be CGI, not just prosthetics like those guys had on.

It probably wouldn't be that easy to get Klaw down like that. I know he's a man, but his cybernetic enhancements could aid him in situations like that. I don't need him to be pure sound to see him as a compelling villain. The man and his motives should make the villain, not his powers.

[bubbadoom]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

CGI isn't evil, that's not what I said. He asked how was a character like Klaw in sound form different from Red Skull or Hellboy. I answered the question by stating that the sound form would most likely be CGI, not just prosthetics like those guys had on.

It probably wouldn't be that easy to get Klaw down like that. I know he's a man, but his cybernetic enhancements could aid him in situations like that. I don't need him to be pure sound to see him as a compelling villain. The man and his motives should make the villain, not his powers.

Actually, I was talking about realizing Klaw's physical form, as designed by Kirby in FF 56, as a prosthetic make-up, ala the examples I gave above.

I am not sure where all this energy creature/comparisons to the "Absorbing Man" from HULK, that Yellow Cloud from GREEN LANTERN, etc. are coming from. I do not recall ever seeing Klaw do that - has he?

Again, an actor in a make-up/costume can pull this off, maybe a few digital enhancements as needed.

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by bubbadoom

Actually, I was talking about realizing Klaw's physical form, as designed by Kirby in FF 56, as a prosthetic make-up, ala the examples I gave above.

I am not sure where all this energy creature/comparisons to the "Absorbing Man" from HULK, that Yellow Cloud from GREEN LANTERN, etc. are coming from. I do not recall ever seeing Klaw do that - has he?

Again, an actor in a make-up/costume can pull this off, maybe a few digital enhancements as needed.

I thought you meant something like FF53 and 1:44 of this vid:





If it's like that I don't want it. Then again, I don't even want a Klaw with prosthetic and a suit like the one he wears. I'm pushing for a more human Klaw to go with a human BP, but that's just my personal preference.

[bubbadoom]

The creature on the cover of FF 53 is not Klaw, but one of his sonic creations - which I am all for in the movie.

Had not seen that Avengers cartoon, but that is not quite what I have been speaking of, would rather not see that happen to Klaw in the movie, or if it did it would be at the very end...

[bubbadoom]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

If it's like that I don't want it. Then again, I don't even want a Klaw with prosthetic and a suit like the one he wears. I'm pushing for a more human Klaw to go with a human BP, but that's just my personal preference.

Well if the Panther is going to be dressed in his cool Kirby costume seems like he should be fighting a cool Kirby villain, and not just some guy - but do both and save the Sonic Klaw for the last act, then all should be happy...

[ThePowerCosmic]

Originally Posted by bubbadoom

Well if the Panther is going to be dressed in his cool Kirby costume seems like he should be fighting a cool Kirby villain, and not just some guy - but do both and save the Sonic Klaw for the last act, than all should be happy...

Yeah, both would make everyone happy. Are you sure that's one of Klaw's creations in FF#53 and not Klaw himself? If so, my bad. Something I didn't think about was how Panther would probably have his suit lined with Vibranium, so most of Klaw's attacks with his hand wouldn't do much unless he used Vibranium as well.

[marcvader]

He was never a sonic creature. That's a recent thing.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by marcvader

He was never a sonic creature. That's a recent thing.

I first discovered Klaw in the 80's and he was made of sound then. So...not too recent.

[roach]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

CGI isn't evil, that's not what I said. He asked how was a character like Klaw in sound form different from Red Skull or Hellboy. I answered the question by stating that the sound form would most likely be CGI, not just prosthetics like those guys had on.

It probably wouldn't be that easy to get Klaw down like that. I know he's a man, but his cybernetic enhancements could aid him in situations like that. I don't need him to be pure sound to see him as a compelling villain. The man and his motives should make the villain, not his powers.

his powers dont make him compelling...the loss of his hand by T'challa and the need for revenge/vendetta are what make him compelling.

[bubbadoom]

Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic

Yeah, both would make everyone happy. Are you sure that's one of Klaw's creations in FF#53 and not Klaw himself? If so, my bad. Something I didn't think about was how Panther would probably have his suit lined with Vibranium, so most of Klaw's attacks with his hand wouldn't do much unless he used Vibranium as well.

I always assumed it was that giant sonic gorilla he creates in this issue, since it has two hands...

[ThePowerCosmic]

Oh, all right. I didn't even know he had a giant sonic gorilla.