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Old 07-17-2012, 10:31 PM   #151
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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Originally Posted by roach View Post
Marvel is treading lightly on this...any mistakes and they may look like they have racist tendencies...on the other hand they are giving a chance to a black director who may never get a chance to direct a big budget superhero film
I dunno. I am strongly against this notion if that's what they're planning to do. Yes, there are a lot of black directors who are unsung heroes, but they should only award this film the same way they've done the others: to the best qualified director with the sharpest vision. Now, that could be Spike Lee or Tyler Perry (althoughI will cut the white pulp from my eyes if the latter is under consideration ).

But if they don't fit the bill, don't just give it to them "because" their black. That's dumb. If they go that route, they might as well fly in a director straight from Nigeria since T'Challa is not African American after all. I want top quality across the board for this character--from casting him properly to lensing the job.

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Old 07-17-2012, 10:43 PM   #152
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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I'm just afraid of us getting some white guy who is seen as the POV character aka the main character as a technicality while T'Challa is almost seen from afar.
I'm afraid we'll get a black director who'll strip T'Challa of his intelligence and sophistication--and then set out to BET-ize him by baptizing him in hip thuggery and commercialized ghetto fabulousity. And all because the suits will be afraid the film won't flourish with white audiences; hence the "need" to court the black urban audience with "the expected.".

There is a way to make this character regal, elegant, tough, street and relatable to all audiences without subscribing to every black stereotype known to media. I fear that a black director won't really *think* about how great an opportunity this is to basically create a trendsetting Barack Obama-meets-Bruce Wayne-meets-Batman for comic moviedom.

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Old 07-17-2012, 10:47 PM   #153
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez! View Post
^ My head explodes when I read that E-Man. I seriously don't get it.

T'Challa is a King. And he'd be the lead character....in a cast full of probably 90% black characters....set in Africa. What does he have to lose there?
I'll break it down for you even better now that I'm on my home computer instead of my phone.

I'm cool with a director that isn't black. I've even suggested Ang Lee and Peter Jackson for a BP movie. There are plenty of non black directors that could do the character justice. Just like how in the comics Black Panther has been written well by white writers in the past, and one of the portrayals I hate is from a black guy.

But if there is a black director I bet that they would give T'Challa his just due in terms of powers. We wouldn't have to worry about many limitations placed on the character because a black director would want to see that, and he/she would see the importance of him getting that shine instead of limiting him. That's one of the only things I liked about the Hudlin run up until he jobbed him out to Doom like a punk. Up until the female Panther gimmick got pushed Hudlin made sure that T'Challa kicked ass. He even had an interview where he talks about how he didn't like how T'Challa would get beat up a lot in the Jungle Action run. Even though I like that run I didn't like how T'Challa was basically that guy who overcame obstacles barely with a lot of help or luck. It's an inspiring story to have the hero overcome the odds that are stacked against him by reaching down and pulling himself up out of the fire, but it happened way too often.

One thing I noticed with a lot of black characters is that they have good powers, but there is always this "but" there that keeps them from being elite. Black Panther is this great king with great physical attributes and resources, "but" he's definitely not superhuman, and where he gets that limit no one minds when Captain America sometimes surpasses that limit he's supposed to be the benchmark for. Storm is very powerful, "but" she isn't an Omega level mutant, nor as strong as all of those damn Summers in the X-titles. Luke Cage is super strong and durable, "but" he's the weakest brick on Marvel Earth by a large margin. Blade has cool vampire powers that let him heal, "but" he's not on Wolverine or Deadpool's level in terms of healing factor. John Stewart is powerful as hell because he's a Green Lantern, "but" so are the other Lanterns. Spawn is powerful, "but" he's not really black anymore because he's burned and he's been replaced anyway.

Basically many black heroes seem to be limited by this glass ceiling type thing. That's not saying that white writers make them that way, or that white writers are racist. Hell Stan wrote Black Panther up very highly. I say Stan because when Kirby was writing the book BP was barely the star, and he just sort of got shocked at **** and occasionally punched something. But when black writers have written black characters they never put limits on them. Some of them might have the character do crazy stuff they shouldn't, but they never limit them. Just look at Milestone for instance. Static was powerful as hell. He wasn't some uber powerful god, but there were always moments when he did something amazing that showed off his skills. When Priest wrote Black Panther he did many an amazing thing. Grevioux probably wrote the most capable Night Thrasher yet, and that's saying a lot when you consider that Fabian Niceiza did a damn good job making him a bad ass in the 90s. McDuffie may get a lot of flack for that chicken wing armlock Black Panther put Silver Surfer in, but beyond that he has always written black characters without any silly limitations.

Once again, I'm not saying that it has to be a black director. If you gave me the power and money to make this movie there's a damn good chance that the director wouldn't be black. But one thing I bet a black director would do is make sure that there are no stupid Hollywood restrictions placed on Black Panther. Just think about what was said by that Marvel exec at Comic Con. He said that it was difficult to make Wakanda, but the ******** just fills the air because they're talking about doing a movie with a damn talking tree and a freaking talking raccoon. They've done a movie about space gods in a different realm with a damn rainbow bridge, but Wakanda is difficult? My cynicism won't let me just believe that Wakanda is this super hard place to portray. Those comments lead me to believe that Black Panther might be limited in his movie, and I want a director with some clout that would tell them that there is nothing wrong with T'Challa actually coming up with a cool plan and winning the day due to his brains and physical attributes.

SPOILERS below

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
One thing that sort of brings this up is that I watched Safe House a few weeks back. I'm going to reveal some big spoilers here. In the movie Denzel dies while Ryan Reynolds lives and learns a big lesson from Denzel's character's actions. It made me think about how Denzel has had a few decently budgeted action movies with some good hype over the years, and in nearly every one of them he dies. I could understand Training Day since he was a corrupt cop, but did he really need to die in Man on Fire, The Book of Eli, and Safe House? In every one of those deaths he dies while his white co-star lives. Why can't they let the black man live? You think something like that would happen with Matt Damon? Even a middle level guy like Liam Neeson would probably survive if he were cast in those roles, but with Denzel it feels as if they're saying, "Alright. Y'all have had enough of the black dude winning. Time to kill him and let the white guy continue the journey now."

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Old 07-17-2012, 10:52 PM   #154
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

I feel that too LS, but because white creators have routinely been unable to humanize black characters, having a history of being able to humanize black characters is a major plus for anyone working on Black Panther. If a white creator has shown that, it's a plus, if they're a black creator, they have that plus.

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Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez! View Post
I'm afraid we'll get a black director who'll strip T'Challa of his intelligence and sophistication--and then set out to BET-ize him by baptizing him in hip thuggery and commercialized ghetto fabulousity. And all because the suits will be afraid the film won't flourish with white audiences; hence the "need" to court the black urban audience with "the expected.".

There is a way to make this character regal, elegant, tough, street and relatable to all audiences without subscribing to every black stereotype known to media. I fear that a black director won't really *think* about how great an opportunity this is to basically create a trendsetting Barack Obama-meets-Bruce Wayne-meets-Batman for comic moviedom.
Isn't this what we usually get from white creators though? I think black creators, on the whole, have shown a tendency to trendset with black characters while white creators have used black characters to court the black urban audience. Now, I could see how you might fear that a black creator wouldn't have the clout to overcome the white executives pigeonholing into urbanity, but in my experience, black creators, left to their own devices, are far more likely to create Barack Obamas than white creators.

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Old 07-18-2012, 06:17 AM   #155
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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Marvel is treading lightly on this...any mistakes and they may look like they have racist tendencies...on the other hand they are giving a chance to a black director who may never get a chance to direct a big budget superhero film
If this is the case, what a sad commentary on how ridiculously PC everything has become that Marvel would have to go out of their way to show that they DON'T have racist tendencies. Sickening. Maybe they'll let it be a totally black production: black writer, director, cast (except for the white villain) and let the chips fall where they may. Sad, but probably a better choice that risking a potential loss over some perceived racism that the company would have no benefit from pushing in the first place.

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Old 07-18-2012, 02:06 PM   #156
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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Tim Story had had one successful film (Barbershop) and one bomb (Taxi) prior to developing Fantastic Four. Both were comedies. He wasn't qualified in terms of developing an CBM action property in the vein of what was already existing for Marvel films. He struggled with translating that sitcom feel to the big screen and for that the critics and audiences villified both films. The writing and acting was horrific in much of both films. Yes, he put forth a valiant effort--and I respect that. But he was totally out of his league.

Yes, they were modest commercial successes, but critically they were among the worst regarded CBMs. I think one was around 20-something percent on RT.

And they are hard to watch a second time. LOL

My point is, don't just give a director the role because he's black. That will gain us little if the story, writing, etc., is wiggedy-wack.
Wasn't TAXI between the two FF movies?

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Old 07-18-2012, 02:12 PM   #157
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

The best interpretation by far of BLACK PANTHER had been the Kirby/Lee version from FF and the Cap stories in Suspense. He was a strong, dynamic character [who could hold his own with these established heroes] who also just happened to be an African ruler. THIS is the model they need to use for a Panther movie.

Villain wise, the Kirby KLAW would be amazing on screen - both look and powers - and Man-Ape would be a welcomed addition, too!

I do not mind Marvel taking it's time to make sure this comes off right. I see it as something like COMING TO AMERICA [minus the comedy] meets IRON MAN.

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Old 07-18-2012, 02:33 PM   #158
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Thumbs up Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Man View Post
I'll break it down for you even better now that I'm on my home computer instead of my phone.

I'm cool with a director that isn't black. I've even suggested Ang Lee and Peter Jackson for a BP movie. There are plenty of non black directors that could do the character justice. Just like how in the comics Black Panther has been written well by white writers in the past, and one of the portrayals I hate is from a black guy.

But if there is a black director I bet that they would give T'Challa his just due in terms of powers. We wouldn't have to worry about many limitations placed on the character because a black director would want to see that, and he/she would see the importance of him getting that shine instead of limiting him. That's one of the only things I liked about the Hudlin run up until he jobbed him out to Doom like a punk. Up until the female Panther gimmick got pushed Hudlin made sure that T'Challa kicked ass. He even had an interview where he talks about how he didn't like how T'Challa would get beat up a lot in the Jungle Action run. Even though I like that run I didn't like how T'Challa was basically that guy who overcame obstacles barely with a lot of help or luck. It's an inspiring story to have the hero overcome the odds that are stacked against him by reaching down and pulling himself up out of the fire, but it happened way too often.

One thing I noticed with a lot of black characters is that they have good powers, but there is always this "but" there that keeps them from being elite. Black Panther is this great king with great physical attributes and resources, "but" he's definitely not superhuman, and where he gets that limit no one minds when Captain America sometimes surpasses that limit he's supposed to be the benchmark for. Storm is very powerful, "but" she isn't an Omega level mutant, nor as strong as all of those damn Summers in the X-titles. Luke Cage is super strong and durable, "but" he's the weakest brick on Marvel Earth by a large margin. Blade has cool vampire powers that let him heal, "but" he's not on Wolverine or Deadpool's level in terms of healing factor. John Stewart is powerful as hell because he's a Green Lantern, "but" so are the other Lanterns. Spawn is powerful, "but" he's not really black anymore because he's burned and he's been replaced anyway.

Basically many black heroes seem to be limited by this glass ceiling type thing. That's not saying that white writers make them that way, or that white writers are racist. Hell Stan wrote Black Panther up very highly. I say Stan because when Kirby was writing the book BP was barely the star, and he just sort of got shocked at **** and occasionally punched something. But when black writers have written black characters they never put limits on them. Some of them might have the character do crazy stuff they shouldn't, but they never limit them. Just look at Milestone for instance. Static was powerful as hell. He wasn't some uber powerful god, but there were always moments when he did something amazing that showed off his skills. When Priest wrote Black Panther he did many an amazing thing. Grevioux probably wrote the most capable Night Thrasher yet, and that's saying a lot when you consider that Fabian Niceiza did a damn good job making him a bad ass in the 90s. McDuffie may get a lot of flack for that chicken wing armlock Black Panther put Silver Surfer in, but beyond that he has always written black characters without any silly limitations.

Once again, I'm not saying that it has to be a black director. If you gave me the power and money to make this movie there's a damn good chance that the director wouldn't be black. But one thing I bet a black director would do is make sure that there are no stupid Hollywood restrictions placed on Black Panther. Just think about what was said by that Marvel exec at Comic Con. He said that it was difficult to make Wakanda, but the ******** just fills the air because they're talking about doing a movie with a damn talking tree and a freaking talking raccoon. They've done a movie about space gods in a different realm with a damn rainbow bridge, but Wakanda is difficult? My cynicism won't let me just believe that Wakanda is this super hard place to portray. Those comments lead me to believe that Black Panther might be limited in his movie, and I want a director with some clout that would tell them that there is nothing wrong with T'Challa actually coming up with a cool plan and winning the day due to his brains and physical attributes.

SPOILERS below

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
One thing that sort of brings this up is that I watched Safe House a few weeks back. I'm going to reveal some big spoilers here. In the movie Denzel dies while Ryan Reynolds lives and learns a big lesson from Denzel's character's actions. It made me think about how Denzel has had a few decently budgeted action movies with some good hype over the years, and in nearly every one of them he dies. I could understand Training Day since he was a corrupt cop, but did he really need to die in Man on Fire, The Book of Eli, and Safe House? In every one of those deaths he dies while his white co-star lives. Why can't they let the black man live? You think something like that would happen with Matt Damon? Even a middle level guy like Liam Neeson would probably survive if he were cast in those roles, but with Denzel it feels as if they're saying, "Alright. Y'all have had enough of the black dude winning. Time to kill him and let the white guy continue the journey now."
This !

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Old 07-18-2012, 03:01 PM   #159
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

Hey, speaking of Kevin Grevioux, he'd make a great Man-Ape!

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Old 07-18-2012, 03:59 PM   #160
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

I just wanna see Grevioux writing comics again. I liked his New Warriors despite how they forced a bunch of depowered mutants on him. Legend of the Blue Marvel was really good too.

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Old 07-18-2012, 04:16 PM   #161
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

It was... I really liked Blue Marvel.

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Old 07-18-2012, 04:36 PM   #162
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Maybe Marvel will let him take a stab at writing the Panther movie - his Underworld did pretty well...

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:14 PM   #163
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

http://www.fempop.com/2012/07/18/mar...ce-of-a-movie/


I have to go with Devin on this one, shockingly.

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:39 PM   #164
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
http://www.fempop.com/2012/07/18/mar...ce-of-a-movie/


I have to go with Devin on this one, shockingly.
Y & check this out:
http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/18/m...-civilization/

Quote:
Huh? Let's take a couple of steps back for those who don't know Black Panther that well.
Wakanda is an African nation. Thanks to a rich deposit of vibranium, a rare metal (which is used in Captain America's shield), Wakanda is wealthy and advanced. Not crazy advanced, but just a step or two ahead of us. Their gleaming capitol city is set in the African jungle, where there are still traditional tribes, and the Wakandan system of government still harkens back to tribal ways.
That's the world of Wakanda. A sort of technologically advanced African nation with a king.
I reached out to Marvel and asked if they wanted to clarify this statement in any way. I was told they would not be commenting.

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:45 PM   #165
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

This is funny
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7...lpao1_1280.jpg

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:49 PM   #166
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^^^lol


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http://www.fempop.com/2012/07/18/mar...ce-of-a-movie/


I have to go with Devin on this one, shockingly.
I think some of the things Esposito said were kinda stupid.

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Old 07-18-2012, 09:59 PM   #167
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

could be a smokescreen and then they announce Black Panther

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Old 07-18-2012, 10:13 PM   #168
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i feel that we've discussed this a lot but I keep forgetting what the consensus is.

Who should be the love interest in a BP film? Because there's a 99% chance that he'll have one

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Old 07-18-2012, 10:25 PM   #169
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Well it can't be Storm, so it would probably be Monica Lynn.

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Old 07-18-2012, 10:33 PM   #170
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Yeah I was thinking Monica Lynn but I'd probably change the character around a bit kinda like they did with Jane Foster. Instead of Monica being a singer, I'd change her into something else scientist, some kind of CIA agent or something

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Old 07-18-2012, 10:35 PM   #171
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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"He has a lot of the same characteristics of a Captain America: great character, good values...but it's a little more difficult, maybe, creating (a world like Wakanda). It's always easier basing it here (America). For instance, 'Iron Man 3' is rooted right here in Los Angeles and New York. When you bring in other worlds, you're always faced with those difficulties." - Marvel Co-President Louis D' Esposito @ SDCC Marvel panel on why Marvel won't make a Black Panther film

Sounds like a major cop-out from Marvel. You can create a fictional place like Asgard, but Wakanda is difficult ? The African Kingdom of " Coming to America ", was basically Wakanda, just add a big panther statue and some high tech vehicles and buildings.
When I saw the opening scene of 'Coming To America',I immediately jump up and shouted. "That's Black Panther!!"

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Old 07-18-2012, 10:51 PM   #172
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Well it can't be Storm, so it would probably be Monica Lynn.
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Yeah I was thinking Monica Lynn but I'd probably change the character around a bit kinda like they did with Jane Foster. Instead of Monica being a singer, I'd change her into something else scientist, some kind of CIA agent or something
How dare y'all jive suckas forget that the gorgeous Ms. Lynne has an 'E' in her name? It is the most versatile and precious alphabet known to humanity, and I am deeply offended at this vile occurrence.

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Old 07-18-2012, 11:07 PM   #173
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M h, what v r.

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Old 07-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #174
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

You see?! This is what is destroying the black community my bruthas! What would Martin and Malcolm think of this tragedy?! *calls Rollo Goodlove*

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Old 07-18-2012, 11:21 PM   #175
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 2

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I'll break it down for you even better now that I'm on my home computer instead of my phone.

I'm cool with a director that isn't black. I've even suggested Ang Lee and Peter Jackson for a BP movie. There are plenty of non black directors that could do the character justice. Just like how in the comics Black Panther has been written well by white writers in the past, and one of the portrayals I hate is from a black guy.

But if there is a black director I bet that they would give T'Challa his just due in terms of powers. We wouldn't have to worry about many limitations placed on the character because a black director would want to see that, and he/she would see the importance of him getting that shine instead of limiting him. That's one of the only things I liked about the Hudlin run up until he jobbed him out to Doom like a punk. Up until the female Panther gimmick got pushed Hudlin made sure that T'Challa kicked ass. He even had an interview where he talks about how he didn't like how T'Challa would get beat up a lot in the Jungle Action run. Even though I like that run I didn't like how T'Challa was basically that guy who overcame obstacles barely with a lot of help or luck. It's an inspiring story to have the hero overcome the odds that are stacked against him by reaching down and pulling himself up out of the fire, but it happened way too often.

One thing I noticed with a lot of black characters is that they have good powers, but there is always this "but" there that keeps them from being elite. Black Panther is this great king with great physical attributes and resources, "but" he's definitely not superhuman, and where he gets that limit no one minds when Captain America sometimes surpasses that limit he's supposed to be the benchmark for. Storm is very powerful, "but" she isn't an Omega level mutant, nor as strong as all of those damn Summers in the X-titles. Luke Cage is super strong and durable, "but" he's the weakest brick on Marvel Earth by a large margin. Blade has cool vampire powers that let him heal, "but" he's not on Wolverine or Deadpool's level in terms of healing factor. John Stewart is powerful as hell because he's a Green Lantern, "but" so are the other Lanterns. Spawn is powerful, "but" he's not really black anymore because he's burned and he's been replaced anyway.

Basically many black heroes seem to be limited by this glass ceiling type thing. That's not saying that white writers make them that way, or that white writers are racist. Hell Stan wrote Black Panther up very highly. I say Stan because when Kirby was writing the book BP was barely the star, and he just sort of got shocked at **** and occasionally punched something. But when black writers have written black characters they never put limits on them. Some of them might have the character do crazy stuff they shouldn't, but they never limit them. Just look at Milestone for instance. Static was powerful as hell. He wasn't some uber powerful god, but there were always moments when he did something amazing that showed off his skills. When Priest wrote Black Panther he did many an amazing thing. Grevioux probably wrote the most capable Night Thrasher yet, and that's saying a lot when you consider that Fabian Niceiza did a damn good job making him a bad ass in the 90s. McDuffie may get a lot of flack for that chicken wing armlock Black Panther put Silver Surfer in, but beyond that he has always written black characters without any silly limitations.

Once again, I'm not saying that it has to be a black director. If you gave me the power and money to make this movie there's a damn good chance that the director wouldn't be black. But one thing I bet a black director would do is make sure that there are no stupid Hollywood restrictions placed on Black Panther. Just think about what was said by that Marvel exec at Comic Con. He said that it was difficult to make Wakanda, but the ******** just fills the air because they're talking about doing a movie with a damn talking tree and a freaking talking raccoon. They've done a movie about space gods in a different realm with a damn rainbow bridge, but Wakanda is difficult? My cynicism won't let me just believe that Wakanda is this super hard place to portray. Those comments lead me to believe that Black Panther might be limited in his movie, and I want a director with some clout that would tell them that there is nothing wrong with T'Challa actually coming up with a cool plan and winning the day due to his brains and physical attributes.

SPOILERS below

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
One thing that sort of brings this up is that I watched Safe House a few weeks back. I'm going to reveal some big spoilers here. In the movie Denzel dies while Ryan Reynolds lives and learns a big lesson from Denzel's character's actions. It made me think about how Denzel has had a few decently budgeted action movies with some good hype over the years, and in nearly every one of them he dies. I could understand Training Day since he was a corrupt cop, but did he really need to die in Man on Fire, The Book of Eli, and Safe House? In every one of those deaths he dies while his white co-star lives. Why can't they let the black man live? You think something like that would happen with Matt Damon? Even a middle level guy like Liam Neeson would probably survive if he were cast in those roles, but with Denzel it feels as if they're saying, "Alright. Y'all have had enough of the black dude winning. Time to kill him and let the white guy continue the journey now."
-Could y have Priest/Lee work together?
-How about Neill Blomkamp?

-James Cameron?

__________________
"Movies are just life, with the dull parts edited out."
-
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