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Old 08-23-2012, 09:02 AM   #401
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I predict that Nolan's Batman series will be the only one that will have a complete arc for Bruce Wayne. At least in my lifetime.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:03 AM   #402
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Definitive Batman movie...for me it's definitely Batman Begins.

It's too perfect to me. Just too perfect.

I'm definitely in the minority here where I didn't enjoy The Dark Knight as much as everyone else did, although I loved parts of it, and while I enjoyed The Dark Knight Rises more, I have problems with it, and I've expressed those.

So yeah, for me it's Batman Begins all the way. It brings me so much joy as a Batman fan LOL.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:04 AM   #403
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I love the rage Bale gave the character. I remember sitting up and taking notice during the Flass interrogation the first time. I personally had not seen Batman so wild and intense as that before at that stage. It really conveyed to me that Batman is so close from being, or feeling like, a bad guy at times, which is cool. And then we have him yelling at Heath's Joker, dropping Maroni from that height and yelling at Bane. Bale's Batman is a beast.
Exactly. Bale has been the only one who's really gotten that part of the character so right. There are so many instances where Batman goes all out on criminals and really starts yelling his heart out and Bale captured that brilliantly I think. I mean when reading and looking at these panels the BaleBat voice is what immediately pops up.





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I predict that Nolan's Batman series will be the only one that will have a complete arc for Bruce Wayne. At least in my lifetime.
I think you may be right. I guess it depends where WB wants to go with the series after TDKR.

A more serialized route or another three part arc.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:05 AM   #404
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I predict that Nolan's Batman series will be the only one that will have a complete arc for Bruce Wayne. At least in my lifetime.
It really depends who takes on Batman next.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #405
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I love the rage Bale gave the character. I remember sitting up and taking notice during the Flass interrogation the first time. I personally had not seen Batman so wild and intense as that before at that stage. It really conveyed to me that Batman is so close from being, or feeling like, a bad guy at times, which is cool. And then we have him yelling at Heath's Joker, dropping Maroni from that height and yelling at Bane. Bale's Batman is a beast.
Agreed. Flass interegation was epic. It had me off my seat when I first saw it.

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Old 08-23-2012, 05:22 PM   #406
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I really wish Keaton had some meatier material to work with, but he barely had anything to do...

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Old 08-23-2012, 05:50 PM   #407
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I predict that Nolan's Batman series will be the only one that will have a complete arc for Bruce Wayne. At least in my lifetime.
I'm thinking that that too. I think Batman will transition into being a more static character in film, like Bond where each movie is just "another adventure" for a pretty long time.

I think this could still allow for multiple-movie arcs, especially if there's mystery and a detective story involved where not everything gets solved in one film. But you're right, I highly doubt we'll see another origin through ending arc for Batman in a very, very long time. Just doesn't make sense to redo it any time soon.

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Old 08-27-2012, 10:28 AM   #408
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

From Drew's "2nd look" analysis of TDKR:

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-capture...ns-magic-trick

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BRUCE WAYNE / BATMAN

The criticism I've seen most often so far boils down to "Batman doesn't quit."

It's funny how the people who seem most adamant about that seem to be, in many cases, the people who loved "The Amazing Spider-Man," which I thought threw out many of the core ideas about that character. I guess the difference is that if you like something, you'll accept whatever changes are made in adapting it, and if you don't like something, you won't. If you enjoy the end result, you'll expand your idea of what that character is, and if you don't, you end up becoming a hard-line purist over this or that point. Personally, I think it is a disastrously stupid idea to make Spider-Man into a "chosen one" archetype, destined for his role as a hero from childhood, with every single character somehow involved in his secret identity. On the other hand, I can completely accept that in Christopher Nolan's version of this Batman story, Bruce Wayne would choose to disappear for eight years after the ending of "The Dark Knight" because, as we've seen in all three of the films, this particular Bruce Wayne has always been looking for an exit strategy, almost from the moment he came up with the idea of using his resources to fight crime on a street level.

At the end of "Batman Begins," the fuse was lit. In the scene where Bruce and Rachel talk about his identity as Batman, she holds out the hope to him that there might come a time when he'd be done with his mission and he could leave that life behind in order to be with her. Much of "The Dark Knight" deals with Bruce struggling towards that place. He sees Harvey Dent as the right kind of replacement, someone that can do what he set out to do, and in a better way. Bruce works hard to free himself, only to have the end of the film clamp down on him like a trap. He burns down the reputation he built as Batman and he accepts blame for the murders of several people, and then he retires the Batman from the public eye completely. It's not because of Rachel or her death, although that certainly informs the personal misery that he stews in for those eight years. He retires the Batman because he has to. If he shows up in public again, every cop in the city has been told that he murdered police officers and Harvey Dent. He's a criminal now, hated by many, and Bruce is willing to let people think that if it serves a greater good.

This film is all about Bruce redeeming his creation and finding a new way to leave this life behind, a way that affords him some small chance of happiness as well as leaving Gotham in hands that are more capable and less compromised than his own. It's important that we see that this is an evolving idea. There is nothing about Nolan's Bruce Wayne that is set in stone and unchanging. From the start of "Batman Begins" to the end of "The Dark Knight Rises," there is constant change, and that distinguishes these from most franchise filmmaking right away. The point of a franchise character is stability. You can throw some curves at your lead characters, but you cannot change them fundamentally. You have to return them to zero at the end of each film so you have somewhere to go with the next one. Stagnation is the friend of franchises. Creating a dynamic character arc is the opposite of what many franchise filmmakers do, and when we're used to characters treading water, dramatically speaking, it can seem disconcerting to see one who is so actively engaged in the pursuit of an ending to his own story.

Some people have complained about the scene where Bruce visits a doctor played by Thomas Lennon, saying it makes no sense for him to just now be learning about all the damage that's been done to him over the years. I thought it was fairly clear that Bruce wasn't learning anything new from Lennon at all. He was just using the doctor's visit as an excuse to be in the hospital so he'd have access to Commissioner Gordon. It's good that we hear the laundry list of physical damage, though, because it gives us some idea of just how hard it is for Bruce to suit up and put himself in harm's way again. It's nice to see even a suggestion that this way of life might be physically traumatic over the long term for someone, and since Bruce isn't a superhero, it's a nod to the reality of just what sort of toll it would take to be Batman. He's not hiding in Wayne Manor because of those injuries. Those injuries are just a fact of life for him since he became Batman. When he finally decides to suit up again, he's not starting from a place of being totally broken. He's just out of practice. Rusty. He's let himself go soft, so he struggles to get ready for battle again. We see the device he puts on his knee that helps him with greater striking power.

But he's not what he was, and that's what worries Alfred about him going head to head with Bane. He's got all the training he's always had, and he's still a powerful person, but he's not the sort of singularly focused lunatic that he was in "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight." In those films, he is coiled at all times, ready for violence. He wants to lash out and hurt someone, and he keeps himself ready to do so. In "The Dark Knight Rises," he has been in this self-imposed exile, and he's gone fallow in the process, while Bane has been out there, getting ready, his will focused on this one particular task. Batman may think he's ready for Bane, but Bruce Wayne isn't.

The scene where Batman makes his first return to Gotham is one of my favorites in the film. He's having fun. He's been looking forward to this for a while, and he seems almost pleased about finally taking out the Batpod again, about trying out his freaky EMP gun, about the unveiling of the Bat. He doesn't seem too concerned about Bane and his men. He's treating them like standard-issue criminals at this point, and it's really just because there are so many other people involved that he doesn't end up going head-to-head with Bane right away. Instead, he plays with the cops a little, he pulls one of his classic disappearing/reappearing moves, and he shows off his new vehicle in a sequence that seemed to end with a very deliberate "Blade Runner" reference by Nolan. It's no accident that the Bat looks a whole hell of a lot like Rick Deckard's Spinner, or that the glass and steel canyons of Gotham suddenly feel a lot more like the neon spires of Ridley Scott's film, or that Zimmer practically quotes the Vangelis score in a few scenes in this film.

Quick digression: Batman's a creep. Or at least he's creepy, in that he does creepy things. He's a surveillance freak. Batman is Big Brother for Gotham. And make no mistake… Bruce only really cares about one city. Gotham. Using tapped feeds into security cameras, he can run almost constant surveillance of every inch of the city. He's always watching. And isn't that what he told Lucius Fox that he wouldn't use anymore at the end of "The Dark Knight"? It looks to me like he just moved that into the Batcave where Lucius doesn't know the extent to which an inactive Batman can crush basic civil rights for everyone in Gotham. We see him watching surveillance footage of Bane at the Wall Street break-in. I'm pretty sure he didn't check that tape out of the surveillance locker.

It's interesting seeing him enjoy himself when he suits up again. Batman appears to have fun with Selina Kyle in his interactions with her. Right away, she seems pretty sure who Bruce Wayne's "powerful friend" really is, and there's almost an are-you-kidding-me? quality to their scenes together. Batman pushes her to have some sort of ethical awakening, and it disturbs her greatly to be provoked like that. From the first moment he catches her in his safe, he's more interested and intrigued than threatened. He pokes around, identifies her, studies her a bit, but he doesn't go after her like he's afraid of her or like he even thinks she's a problem in any significant way. He sees something in her that he reacts to, that he recognizes. He can't help but root for her to do the right thing, and he pushes her, little by little, each time they run into each other. I also like that she eventually refutes his reluctance to use guns with a practical example it's hard to deny.

When she leads him into that cage for that encounter with Bane, and when he hears the cage close behind him, the fun goes out of the movie with one slam. As it should. Because Bruce Wayne's hubris, his colossal arrogance, finally catches up with him and literally breaks his back. And how else can you describe his actions in the first third of this film? It's an extension of the way he conducted himself through most of "The Dark Knight." I think Nolan's Batman is a hugely flawed person, and he's struggling with those personality flaws all the way through. The end of the last film hinged on a lie that he suggested for what seemed like the right reason at the time. And in this movie, when we see him for the first third of the film, he's sort of being a cocky ******* about things. He's become reckless. He ends up in that room, totally unprepared for it, and when Bane destroys him, it's not difficult. I've read people complain that the fight's not cooler, but that's not the point. It's a humiliation. Bruce and Batman both are beaten and broken, and he's sent back to the very start of his journey.

When Nolan drops Bruce at the bottom of that pit, he's right back in the well he fell into at the start of "Batman Begins," the one where he first encountered the bats that have been at the center of his pathology ever since. In that instance, he hurt himself and had to be rescued by his father. The way Nolan's managed to find a way to blatantly repeat the imagery is, I think, one of the things that I find most compelling about the way he handled this movie. He has no one to save him here, no one who can carry him. He is forced to confront all of his feelings about all of his father figures in this film, including his actual father. Alfred, R'has Al Ghul, Lucius Fox, Gordon… he has to deal with every one of those relationships before he is ready to finally save Gotham, choose a successor, and move on to a new life. In order to climb out of this, he has to refocus what it is he wants. He has to make some decisions about who he's been, who he wants to be, and how he has to do things. It is a final transformation in a series that is all about a character running from who he was, desperate to claim power for himself, desperate to impose order on a world where parents die and everything turns to ash.

That last scene of Bruce in that cafe is something I'm guessing no Batman fan would have expected to see at the start of "Batman Begins," and that's exactly why I like it as a conclusion for the character. Nolan's told a story that brings this character to a conclusion in a way I've never seen anyone else attempt. I'm sure we'll see more Batman films down the road from the studio, but there's something beautiful about the notion of healing Bruce Wayne, something optimistic that the ongoing grind of an eternally angry Dark Knight never really allows.

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Old 08-27-2012, 07:28 PM   #409
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Why Batman did NOT kill Talia's truckdriver...

My interpretation:

Batman fires lighter incendiary projectiles that impact on the truck windshield with a flame burst. The intention is to momentarily obscure the driver’s view, create panic and force the truck off course. Determined Talia takes the wheel.

If they were the Bat's standard missile warheads the truck's cab would be blown open. There would be nothing left for Talia to steer. Remember those warheads BLOW A HOLE THROUGH A BUILDING later as the Bat hauls the core. I believe the windshield is not even knocked out when the truck drives off the overhang.

The Bat was designed for urban pacification and my guess is it has many multipurpose armaments and tools.

And the shooting script backs me up: GORDON KILLS THE DRIVER. These shots were obviously cut, but no less reveal Nolan's intentions:

INT. BLACK TRUCK - CONTINUOUS
Gordon climbs out the back of the truck but is immediately
strafed by gunfire from the Tumblers. He dives back inside,
moves to the front of the trailer - looks at the bulkhead,
gauging the driver’s position. Starts firing blind through
the bulkhead -

INT. CAB, BLACK TRUCK - CONTINUOUS
Bullets fly through the cab. The driver takes one, falls
forward, dead. Talia takes the wheel - bullets keep coming.


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Old 08-27-2012, 07:46 PM   #410
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Batman doesn't kill on purpuse but he has attitude of don't give a **** if they die in crashs,explosions etc. while he had higher mission (saving innocents,city)

Ra's,Harvey,Talia & Talia's henchmen died in similar situations. He saved Joker because he was able to save him after throwing out of a building.

I think in TDK, his tumbler crashes one of the Joker's truck and destroys it before Joker blows tumbler. Whoever using that truck must be dead as well.

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Old 09-03-2012, 01:13 PM   #411
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Bale was just perfect as Batman, I doubt that I will see anyone better than him.

It is one of the reasons that I am not really looking forward to new actor as Batman.


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Old 09-03-2012, 01:33 PM   #412
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Christian is the batman for me. His voice, his body language in the suit, the look in his eyes, everything he does conveys not only the angry dark animal on the surface but the honest and good humanity within, showing equal respect to the bat and the man! He's awesome.

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Old 09-03-2012, 04:48 PM   #413
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Damn he really does look like a beast in the cowl.

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Old 09-03-2012, 07:05 PM   #414
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I remember seeing TDK and the beginning of the sonar scene when he says "Beautiful, isn't it?"

Dude is just so cold in that entire scene. Definitely a great translation from the comics of just how far Batman is willing to go to catch a villain.

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Old 09-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #415
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I said it before, but Bale's Batman will definitely be topped. His performance as Batman was really inconsistant. Sometimes he's amazing, but sometimes he's pretty terrible. All in all, his Batman will be beaten, but I doubt his Bruce will.

Also, I love Bale's chin.

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Old 09-03-2012, 08:43 PM   #416
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I said it before, but Bale's Batman will definitely be topped. His performance as Batman was really inconsistant. Sometimes he's amazing, but sometimes he's pretty terrible. All in all, his Batman will be beaten, but I doubt his Bruce will.

Also, I love Bale's chin.
I'm one to say "never say never", but unless the next actor gets an arc like what Nolan did for Bruce/Batman I really don't see Bale being topped in either form - Batman or Bruce Wayne. But hey, it's not impossible!

The only scene that's not up to snuff for me with Bale in the suit was his final moments with The Joker. The voice was over done, yes, even to a Bale-Bat voice supporter that I am, I couldn't let that pass. But Bale was still solid with his acting. The way he shows fatigue and exhaustion while the Joker is going on, and on with his diatribe was brilliant. It just sucks because in the next scene, the voice was perfect for that unhinged, pushing through his physical and mental limitations quality, IMO.

I'm not excited about the reboot, because quite frankly - I have my Batman on film. But if it's as sophisticated when it comes to the cast, script and director I will look to champion it!

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Old 09-03-2012, 10:31 PM   #417
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I look at it this way...

During Bale's run as Batman, I thought he was pretty much a definitive Bruce Wayne and I absolutely loved the intensity he brought to the Batman side of things, even if it was a bit over-the-top at times. There was a little nagging voice inside reminding me that Keaton probably played it a bit cooler in the cowl.

When we have the next Batman, I fully expect there to be a nagging voice in my head to remind me that Bale's Batman could probably kick the new Batman's *ss.

Bale truly was a Batman of "The Goddamn" variety.

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Old 09-04-2012, 06:59 PM   #418
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I kind of wonder at times if they'll further try to distance themselves from Bale's Batman with the next one by actually doing something that I've seen some fans have a issue with in the comics...and something that was somewhat done in TDKR with Bale's Bruce; have the suit that Bruce wears in the next series be a little more mechanical in a sense where it not only helps protect him but it upgrades and increases his strength and such...in a similar manner to the Batman Beyond Suit in the animated series.

I've seen some people ask that in a world where the technology is obviously advanced in the DC Comics Universe, why doesn't Batman simply use a more mechanical suit instead of just a simple body padded one in order to increase his effectiveness as a crime fighter and put less risk on his body.

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Old 09-05-2012, 03:32 AM   #419
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Hello everyone. I've been lurking for a while, but I finally had to emerge from the shadows to get something of my chest! I'm mystified why there's relatively little discussion of Christian's performance at forums such as Imdb's TDKR's messageboard for, for instance. Even here, other actors/characters have more numerous threads. Christian gave the his best reviewed Batman performance. His film has made more than a billion dollars. He shut most of the post-TDK haters up, though some persist in complaining about his voice. Why aren't more people raving about him???? I was pleasantly surprised to see his performance ranked highly in the "Top 10 peformances of TDK trilogy" thread here. I loved this TDKR review from Forbes. I don't agree with everything he says about the film, but I'm glad to see Christian/Bruce Wayne get the credit he deserves.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhugh...tman-legend/2/

I've seen the film 8 times. Each time it got a little harder to sit through the non-Christian parts! For me, Christian is the heart of the film. Batman Begins started me on the part to becoming a Christian Bale fan, but TDKR made me truly love Bruce Wayne. I love Christian for his quiet intensity and that was wonderfully displayed. Some of my particular favourite scenes:

-The argument with Alfred
-Practically all of the pit scenes. So brief, yet profoundly moving and indelible. I could tell from the audience reaction every time I watched the film that they were moved by him too.
-When he takes Rachel's photograph from Miranda and puts it back on the shelf. His sadness was so palpable, yet understated.
-The kiss with Talia and aftermath scene. My appreciation is strictly feminine .

A lot of people said that Heath Ledger's performance was the reason TDK did so well. I wonder if they will give Christian some credit for making TDKR an even bigger hit. Maybe Christian's performance would have gotten more attention if he had flipped out at Nolan!!!! That's it from me. Thank you for your attention.*slinks back into shadows*


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Old 09-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #420
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Bale had the luxury of working in conjunction with Nolan, who shared his vision and allowed him to portray Batman the way he wanted. I firmly believe the origin story, which will no doubt be told again, really can't be improved upon much. I think the first half of BB is still possibly the best of the whole trilogy (it's just that Third Act that sinks that ship for me )

So this tandem was kind of a "lightning in a bottle" situation. I know that a straight comic translation version of Batman on the big screen is still out there waiting to be made, and no doubt, it could very well be splendid. In someways, probably better than what we just got. But for me personally, certain aspects of what Nolan & co. accomplished with this trilogy were things I've been waiting to see my whole life. It will be very hard to top IMO, but that's the beauty of it all...

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Old 09-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #421
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I wonder if this is true. I hope it is because it's hilarious.

http://just-call-it-what-y0u-want.tu...031/what-a-guy


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Old 09-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #422
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I wonder if this is true. I hope it is because it's hilarious.

http://just-call-it-what-y0u-want.tu...031/what-a-guy



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Old 09-06-2012, 09:22 PM   #423
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2



OMG. I can picture him doing that.

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Old 09-06-2012, 09:24 PM   #424
Travesty
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

"wuuuurrrrr urrrrzzzzzz shurrrrrrrr!!?!?!?"

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Old 09-06-2012, 11:32 PM   #425
DerTommissar
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Hilarious!!!

I have always liked Bale's Bat-voice. To me it is a signature trait of the Nolan Batman.

People complain about it, but I think as time goes by they will realize what an effective and expressive choice it has been.

10 years from now when Bats is rebooted and the voice is toned-down, people will be complaining that they miss Bale's growl.

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