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Old 07-20-2012, 11:37 PM   #151
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I was taken aback by just how lively Bale's performance was in this movie, particularly compared to the last. He, as both Bruce AND Batman, just has so much more personality than before. How anyone could doubt that he's the best Batman, I'll never know. It's been quite a character arc over these three movies.

EDIT: Can I just point out something Bale said in an interview at the opening of this thread? He said he and Chris Nolan agreed early on that you'd never see Batman half-dressed, he must be a complete entity at all times...but in Batman Begins, after he sedates Rachel in the Batcave, we see a long shot of him remove the cowl and stand there. It was from behind and long off, so fine. In The Dark Knight, after Rachel dies, he;s in the penthouse with most of the armour on, sans cowl, cape, gloves and gauntlets. AND in The Dark Knight Rises, he flies into the Batcave and removes the cowl, giving us a whole scene of him in costume without the mask, operating the Batcomputer.

I'm not complaining, I've wanted to see that for a long time, because we see that a lot in other mediums, but never on film. Just pointing out it appears Bale doesn't have the best memory for that sort of thing. :P

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Old 07-21-2012, 12:06 AM   #152
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

The more I think about it, the more it bugs me that this film never explored Bruce's reluctance to kill. BATMAN BEGINS had the whole "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you" bit, TDK had him talking about his one rule, which he broke...and its just never been dealt with again.

In TDK, he undergoes such horrible things, as does his city, and its never explored. He pretty much just kills Talia in the truck...and then he's obviously willing to kill Bane, and basically just wants revenge.

Meh.

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Old 07-21-2012, 12:16 AM   #153
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

He indirectly killed Talia so people are going to argue about it like they did with Ra's and Two Face. But he FLAT OUT MURDERED the first driver of the truck. Before Talia took over the truck, Batman used the bat to shoot the man. Finally, no more stupid "That doesn't count as murder" back and forths. In this movie, Batman riddled a hood with bullets and made him look like swiss cheese.


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Old 07-21-2012, 12:31 AM   #154
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

You can't indirectly kill someone by shooting missles and guns at them anymore than you can indirectly kill someone by tackling them off the edge of a building.

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Old 07-21-2012, 12:38 AM   #155
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You can't indirectly kill someone by shooting missles and guns at them anymore than you can indirectly kill someone by tackling them off the edge of a building.
What, what? Did he actually shoot Talia? It's very clear that he shoots the first driver, but I thought Talia just swerved off the road and it was the fall onto the second level of the street that lead to her death?

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Old 07-21-2012, 12:45 AM   #156
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I dunno. I think he shot the bomb truck. Wasn't really paying attention because it wasn't a terribly interesting sequence, but I remember thinking "He's shooting at that truck, and Gordon is in the back of it".

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Old 07-21-2012, 12:51 AM   #157
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I dunno. I think he shot the bomb truck. Wasn't really paying attention because it wasn't a terribly interesting sequence, but I remember thinking "He's shooting at that truck, and Gordon is in the back of it".
Wow you need need to stop seriously. Wasn't paying attention? Then quit trolling and get out of here. He was shooting the front of it, he definitely killed the driver and Talia died from injuries of the crash.

Also Bale talking about not being half in the costume, i think he was talking more about when he's in public.

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:04 AM   #158
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Then I was right...hnnh.

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:09 AM   #159
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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Originally Posted by titansupes View Post
I was taken aback by just how lively Bale's performance was in this movie, particularly compared to the last. He, as both Bruce AND Batman, just has so much more personality than before. How anyone could doubt that he's the best Batman, I'll never know. It's been quite a character arc over these three movies.

EDIT: Can I just point out something Bale said in an interview at the opening of this thread? He said he and Chris Nolan agreed early on that you'd never see Batman half-dressed, he must be a complete entity at all times...but in Batman Begins, after he sedates Rachel in the Batcave, we see a long shot of him remove the cowl and stand there. It was from behind and long off, so fine. In The Dark Knight, after Rachel dies, he;s in the penthouse with most of the armour on, sans cowl, cape, gloves and gauntlets. AND in The Dark Knight Rises, he flies into the Batcave and removes the cowl, giving us a whole scene of him in costume without the mask, operating the Batcomputer.

I'm not complaining, I've wanted to see that for a long time, because we see that a lot in other mediums, but never on film. Just pointing out it appears Bale doesn't have the best memory for that sort of thing. :P
I've been waiting so long for a full maskless Batman scene, and we finally got it.

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:42 AM   #160
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I've been waiting so long for a full maskless Batman scene, and we finally got it.
Yes, it looked really good IMO. Especially in the batcave.

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:44 AM   #161
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Yeah I'm glad it was for a decent amount of time too.

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Old 07-21-2012, 02:50 AM   #162
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Well the main thing I wanted to see from this film was a completed character arc for Bruce and I got it. Christian keeps proving to me why he is my favourite Bruce/Batman.

I was seriously about to cry at the ending.

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Old 07-21-2012, 03:01 AM   #163
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Good lord...

My thoughts on things *MAJOR SPOILERS*

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Bale has so much more material to work with for his performance as Bruce Wayne in this film. I was happy to see that he had such a compelling arc. Out of all of the films in Nolan's trilogy, this film is by far the one where i felt sorry for Bruce the most; the pain that he was already in when we first see him again, to all of the crap that he went through in this entire film.

My god, the look and tone of his voice when Miranda betrayed him...it's like..for the first time in a long time...the persona of Bruce broke through that Bat Mask and I could actually feel and see past the rage that's covered with his mask.

I also liked that callback on how Bruce said "I watched you die.." to Ra's illusion in this film..it reminded me on how he said that the guy at his party in BB couldn't be Ra's because "he watched him die" as well.

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:07 PM   #164
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I really love that Bruce Wayne was able to grow out of being Batman here. It's a much, much better ending for the character than him to be Batman forever. Batman is how Bruce Wayne deals with his anger, fear, and grief. He grew (rose) out of his own personal pit and became happy.

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:09 PM   #165
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

He didn't really grow out of it, though. He just kind of stopped doing it after he started again and handed off the mantle.

Wasn't terribly well handled, compared to say, TDK.

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:12 PM   #166
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Well isn't that growth? A common trait all Batman versions have is that he's compelled to do it. Here, it's clear that he no longer feels that way.

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Old 07-21-2012, 04:17 PM   #167
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
Good lord...

My thoughts on things *MAJOR SPOILERS*

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Bale has so much more material to work with for his performance as Bruce Wayne in this film. I was happy to see that he had such a compelling arc. Out of all of the films in Nolan's trilogy, this film is by far the one where i felt sorry for Bruce the most; the pain that he was already in when we first see him again, to all of the crap that he went through in this entire film.

My god, the look and tone of his voice when Miranda betrayed him...it's like..for the first time in a long time...the persona of Bruce broke through that Bat Mask and I could actually feel and see past the rage that's covered with his mask.

I also liked that callback on how Bruce said "I watched you die.." to Ra's illusion in this film..it reminded me on how he said that the guy at his party in BB couldn't be Ra's because "he watched him die" as well.
Big yes on the bolded part. His look there was just gut wrenching.

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Old 07-21-2012, 07:29 PM   #168
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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Big yes on the bolded part. His look there was just gut wrenching.
One of the few tiny moments where their relationship seemed convincing.

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Old 07-21-2012, 07:38 PM   #169
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Goddamn this quote read by Gordon at Bruce's funeral just kills me. Especially since he "died" without Gotham really knowing the sacrifices that he made both as Bruce Wayne and Batman.

I see a beautiful city and a brilliant people rising from this abyss.
I see the lives for which I lay down my life, peaceful, useful, prosperous and happy.
I see that I hold a sanctuary in their hearts, and in the hearts of their descendants, generations hence.

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done;
It is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever know.

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Old 07-21-2012, 07:44 PM   #170
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

There was a big change between the character of Bruce and Batman throughout these films.

In Batman Begins, Bruce was relatively distinctual from Batman. He was working out the kinks so to speak. In The Dark Knight, Bruce was almost unrecognisable from Batman. He had become "lost inside this monster" as Alfred would put it. In Rises, we see that Bruce is starting to show through in Batman in certain occasions. He has become a whole man, ready to move on.

Damn it his character arc was perfect.

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Old 07-21-2012, 08:14 PM   #171
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I really don't care if Bruce killed the driver or not. It's good that Batman is a real superhero who generally has a distaste for killing. But the "no killing" rule is often ridiculously written, to the point that Batman looks like a fanatic mindlessly following ideology rather than a man with a principled stand. I like it if that fact is acknowledged in a story where Bruce refuses to kill, and he's put in a moral dilemma. But this was all-out war for the city's very survival. Batman has no problems organizing the cops into an army, but he can't have blood on his own hands? He would've looked like an ass if he talked about "no killing" with the clock ticking down on that nuke.

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Old 07-21-2012, 10:34 PM   #172
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I was taken aback by just how lively Bale's performance was in this movie, particularly compared to the last. He, as both Bruce AND Batman, just has so much more personality than before. How anyone could doubt that he's the best Batman, I'll never know. It's been quite a character arc over these three movies.
This. Just this.

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Old 07-21-2012, 10:49 PM   #173
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

To me I view the characterization of Bruce Wayne/Batman in Nolan's trilogy like this:

Batman Begins --- Bruce comes face to face with his fears as a child and sees them realized when his parents are murdered. He seeks a means to fight these fears and creates the Batman persona with the intent that Batman will inspire the people of Gotham to get rid of the criminals, but as Alfred warns him in one of the latter scenes at the party in that movie, he also risks getting lost inside the monster that is Batman, a persona that incorporates the fear, pain, torture, anger, and anguish of Bruce.

The Dark Knight --- Bruce sees Harvey Dent as a real hope and an avenue towards a normal life for himself with Rachel. He doesn't want to be Batman forever, he only seeks to rebuild Gotham with good people. But when The Joker kills Rachel and turns Harvey into Two Face, it destroys any hope Bruce has. His love has died and Batman goes from being a symbol of hope to taking the blame for Harvey and in turn being viewed as a murder.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Dark Knight Rises --- Bruce has lost his ability to become Batman due to the events of The Dark Knight, and as such, he's left in anguish and despair for 8 years. He can't escape into the Batman persona, where his fears and darkness are hidden behind a mask because Batman is viewed as a murderer and a vigilante. Since Batman has made Bruce less fearful, he's become callous. This results in him being defeated by Bane and placed into the prison. In the prison, he learns to once again embrace and confront his fear as the man in the prison tells Bruce that to make the jump he must have the fear of death, a powerful motivator and one that once motivated him to become Batman in the first place. When he does, he rises and Batman no longer becomes a mystery or merely a sum of all of Bruce's darker traits, but the true savior and hero that Gotham deserves. As such, Bruce learns to live again and since he has done what Batman was originally intended to do, he can now let go and live a seemingly happy life in peace. He gives Blake the batcave, knowing that he's inspired someone to take up the mantle, but he also repairs the bat signal knowing that The Batman will be needed again...whether it's Blake, Bruce some time down the road, or anyone....The Batman is a symbol and must live on beyond Bruce Wayne, and he does here.


It's a great 3 story arc where Bruce grows into a man who is committed but then faces the torment of his actions (TDK Bruce and Batman are to me the kind of Batman we're used to in the comics and such...dark, brooding, not the guy you want to mess with), and finally has some closure to that torment.

As such, Bale does a brilliant job. I felt TDKR was very much Bruce's story so he had a lot of material to really take the character on. But Bale sold me as Bruce from Batman Begins, so I'm not surprised to see him do so well in a more Batman centric storyline like TDKR.

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Old 07-21-2012, 10:52 PM   #174
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I love how Bruce always saw something more in Selina and he just wouldn't give up on her even if in her own words, she keeps on "disappointing" him. It's like a throwback to Alfred not giving up on him.

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Old 07-21-2012, 10:54 PM   #175
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

^Nice. I've been reading a bunch of posts here, and it's really cool how Nolan filled the movie with so many subtle things.

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