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Old 07-09-2012, 09:19 PM   #51
nolder
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdude101 View Post
I hope that the top one is strong enough to swing from.

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Old 07-09-2012, 09:40 PM   #52
MSaleem
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Is it a good idea to use PVA + Adhesive instead of Contact Cement?

Oh and I looked up all the stuff, and the total for the ingrdients only will be around 50$, so its not what I had in mind. Then there is also the cost of making the web shooter.


Last edited by MSaleem; 07-09-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:07 PM   #53
White_widow
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Ok..., let me simplify things:

The formula is a dissolved Plastic and an adhesive.

Plastic= polymer (PO) + plasticizer (PL) + additives(a)

The plastic provides strength, the plasticizer adds elasticity, and additives change other properties.

Adhesive= rubber (R) + tackifier (T)

Rubber produces bond strength, and tackifier increases hold.

Solvent (s)

solvent dissolves the plastic.

So, as it stands, there are two formulas with modifications.

Cellustick-

PO: Cellulose acetate
PL: glycerine
A:N/A
R: Contact cement
T: PVA or aerosol spray and stick (super 77)
S: Acetone

vinylon-

PO: PVA
PL: Water
A:N/A
R: water soluble Contact cement
T: aerosol spray and stick (super 77)
S: water

Now. The way we prepare these formulas depend on the method by which we spin them.

Right now, as it stands we are looking into PVA because if we can extrude it properly, it can be close to stainless steel or more in strength and it will be cheap. We will try dry spinning or gel spinning. If we can't get it right, who cares? We can dissolve it down and use it in cellustick.

Now a lot of you have referred to sodium tetraborate, also known as borax. That crosslinking agent is no good for PVA. It will completely ruin your tensile strength and adhesion. Basically, all the reasons you would want PVA you lose when it comes int ocontact with borax.


Last edited by White_widow; 07-09-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:45 PM   #54
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Polyisoprene or neoprene will work, trust me.
This i got from WW
nolder i am not really sure, it probably won't work, i'm just being optimistic
Just a question WW i thought it was

PO: Cellulose Acetate
PL: What exactly is glycerine and how will it work and why do we have it?
A: N/A
R:Neoprene or Contact Cement
T: PVA or Super 77
S: Acetone

Wait guys check this quote out from Wikipedia on Plasticizers

Lignin, naphthalene and melamine sulfonate superplasticisers are organic polymers. The long molecules wrap themselves around the cement particles, giving them a highly negative charge so that they repel each other.

Electrospinning connection maybe?


Last edited by Bdude101; 07-10-2012 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:03 AM   #55
White_widow
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

glycerin is a liquid that can insert itself into the polymer chain of natural polymers. It makes it more pliable, elastic, and flexible. I know it works for starch, agar, and gelatin. I can't guarantee it on cellulose, but it is a natural polymer.

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Old 07-10-2012, 12:05 AM   #56
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Do you have any other ideas?
we could possibly try DOA or we could try TP


Last edited by Bdude101; 07-10-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:28 AM   #57
White_widow
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Those acronyms are foreign to me. DOA or TP?

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Old 07-10-2012, 01:00 AM   #58
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

look it up on google i am sorry for the harsh message


Last edited by Bdude101; 07-10-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:21 AM   #59
nolder
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Angry Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdude101 View Post
look it up on google
ARE YOU SERIOUS? half of your posts are questions and we (usually widow) answer all of them. when he asks you 1 question about your vague post with unfamiliar acronyms you tell him to google it?!?

BY THE WAY, when I google DOA I get a 2006 action movie, fishing lines, and a Jay z song.
TP yields a school in singapore, a networking company, and a orthodontics company.
and nothing relevant came up in a series of acronym dictionaries...
completely useless.

just in case I didn't make it clear, you are really not getting on my good side

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Old 07-10-2012, 08:16 AM   #60
White_widow
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

From what I can tell, they are plasticizers. DOA is for PVC and TP is for...rubber I think.

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Old 07-10-2012, 10:01 AM   #61
MSaleem
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

I noticed that no one has mentioned anything about adhesive in their "overviews" on the formula.

Or does the cement cover the adhesive also, I keep forgetting.

BDude - What do the acronyms you said mean?


Last edited by MSaleem; 07-10-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #62
White_widow
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

I'm pretty sure that bdude was talking about plasticizers.

The overview had the adhesive, the plastic, and the solvent. The adhesive is contact cement and a strong tackifier.

Though it's more relevant to the shooters, I've determined that I will be dry spinning this polymer. The polymer pva I'm using is only a medium percentage polymerized meaning that it's crystalline structure must be aligned by heat. I'll gel spin if I can, but I think that viscosity is going to be difficult.

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Old 07-10-2012, 11:46 AM   #63
MSaleem
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

To WW, If your going to dry spin it , is it still safe to use CO2 Cans, or are you going to use a bike pump?

Can't find Water Soluble Contact Cement anyone know where?

BTW, what is this right under my username "side kick" is it a rank on how many posts you do? Just a side question.


Last edited by MSaleem; 07-10-2012 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #64
nolder
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSaleem View Post
To WW, If your going to dry spin it , is it still safe to use CO2 Cans, or are you going to use a bike pump?

Can't find Water Soluble Contact Cement anyone know where?

BTW, what is this right under my username "side kick" is it a rank on how many posts you do? Just a side question.
yep it's based on # of posts. I think after your first 10 posts you go from newbie first class to side kick.

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Old 07-10-2012, 01:04 PM   #65
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Hey nolder I meant no harm, it's just that i found it by looking it up on google, and I had to go to bed five minutes before i posted, i was kinda in a rush, but white widow found the right thing. They are plasticizers so if you want to find it, look up TP and DOA plasticizers in the search engine, it is the best I can give you.
I don't want to get on your bad side man.

Oh btw this is what the acronyms are
DOA: Dioctyl adipate
TP: Thiokol or something else
I think I will probably use glycerin


Last edited by Bdude101; 07-10-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:41 PM   #66
White_widow
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

To sal, it doesn't have to be water soluble neccessarily. Also, somewhere in your profile, once you hit sidekick, then you can change it. That's why mine says technology theorist. Also, It really depends. The heating filament I'm using is going to transfer intense heat into the spinnerets. Now whether that heat will be taken directly by the water, or whether it will need further cooling, is still left to be seen.

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Old 07-10-2012, 02:33 PM   #67
MSaleem
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Th Smile Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

I know this is off topic, but I cant find the button to edit your signature and side-kick thing

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Old 07-10-2012, 03:22 PM   #68
Bdude101
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

I am going to try to make three different kinds of webshooters with different spinning methods.
1: Dry Spinning
2: Electrospinning
3: Gel Spinning

And then I will remodify it to make it smaller and more portable and comfortable.

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Old 07-10-2012, 04:03 PM   #69
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

I have been following your thread for quite sometime
And I have finally made great progress
It is thin and very strong
It does not support body weight but you can tie somebody up and they wouldn't be able to break free
The webbing itself is thick, flexible, and extremely strong
It retracts with the technology I used from a vacuum cleaner
I've used it on my Xbox controller by shooting it and retracting it into my hands
It uses pressurized gas to shoot
It is easily concealable in your sleeves
I am not quite finished because it hardens and I need it to stay soft and sticky
I am keeping my forumula and device in secrecy until it's finished
But all I can say is thank you White Widow for your contributions to science and your research done as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 07-10-2012, 04:30 PM   #70
nolder
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Phantom View Post
I have been following your thread for quite sometime
And I have finally made great progress
It is thin and very strong
It does not support body weight but you can tie somebody up and they wouldn't be able to break free
The webbing itself is thick, flexible, and extremely strong
It retracts with the technology I used from a vacuum cleaner
I've used it on my Xbox controller by shooting it and retracting it into my hands
It uses pressurized gas to shoot
It is easily concealable in your sleeves
I am not quite finished because it hardens and I need it to stay soft and sticky
I am keeping my forumula and device in secrecy until it's finished
But all I can say is thank you White Widow for your contributions to science and your research done as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sounds cool. what vacuum cleaner parts did you use? and can you post a picture or two?

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Old 07-10-2012, 05:03 PM   #71
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

I dont know much aboet physics, but is the a down pat webing that is completley safe and strong enough to hold a average mans weight. Aswell as easy to aquire

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Old 07-10-2012, 05:32 PM   #72
nolder
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey_fan View Post
I dont know much aboet physics, but is the a down pat webing that is completley safe and strong enough to hold a average mans weight. Aswell as easy to aquire
no no no no no.
A) we don't have a down pat webbing. its changing day by day it seems. also, most of the webbing that has been thought of is hypothetical, meaning no one has made it and tested it.

B) It most likely wont be able to hold a persons weight. nor swinging. swinging would have to hold a persons weight, plus additional forces. I really don't want to rehash old information, but I've posted about the improbability of swinging numerous times on many threads. If you click my name and click see all posts by this user, you should be able to find one of my posts about the physics of swinging.

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Old 07-10-2012, 06:09 PM   #73
White_widow
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Phantom View Post
I have been following your thread for quite sometime
And I have finally made great progress
It is thin and very strong
It does not support body weight but you can tie somebody up and they wouldn't be able to break free
The webbing itself is thick, flexible, and extremely strong
It retracts with the technology I used from a vacuum cleaner
I've used it on my Xbox controller by shooting it and retracting it into my hands
It uses pressurized gas to shoot
It is easily concealable in your sleeves
I am not quite finished because it hardens and I need it to stay soft and sticky
I am keeping my forumula and device in secrecy until it's finished
But all I can say is thank you White Widow for your contributions to science and your research done as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome phantom! I've never considered retractable webbing before. that's pretty cool man. Kudos.

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Old 07-10-2012, 06:31 PM   #74
MSaleem
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

Actually, the best webbing formula that we have is:

Cellolose Acetate
+
Polyvinyl Alcohol
+
Contact Cement
+
(well im using it) Neoprene because acording to Spider Phantom it gets too hard
+
Gorilla Glue (for me) because i dont think the contact cement will be as sticky wih water and acetone
+
All in Acetone + Water

Gel Spun or Dry Spun using CO2 Cartridges

Well that is where I am at and testing.

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Old 07-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #75
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Default Re: Webbing formula - Part 1

MSaleem are you going to have water in the cartridge along with Gorilla Glue?

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