All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - Part 11

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

And that's their opinion as well, but don't try to pass your alleged opinion as fact, because it's not. Had Watchmen been this disgraced CBM, it would have never amassed a cult following, and spawned prequels.

The film had ****ty marketing.



I'm not defending Sucker Punch here, obviously. I'm disputing your comments regarding Watchmen.

Plenty of bad films have cult followings. It also don't understand blaming the marketing when it opened well and dropped off dramatically. That is a more word of mouth thing then anything else. And I don't understand how you can claim I passed anything off as fact. If anything, you came off as defensive for no reason.

And a director's whole track record matters. I actually like 300, and find that Snyder caught lighting in a bottle and even that wasn't a very good film, a hollow, but pretty good time. His follow ups seem to indicate this as he tries to warp material to his style and the results have not been promising.

I don't like the idea that this film about a thoughtful Man of Steel is being directed by a guy whose film lack life and vigor beyond the surface.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

By 'several' you mean "300" and "Dawn of the Dead"...

You might as well add Watchmen to that list. While the film underwhelmed at the box office, the DVD and merchandise sales were good enough to warrant the film a success in WB's eyes.

WB wouldnt be seeking for more Watchmen films had Snyder's film failed.

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Plenty of films I don't like have cult followings.

Fixed that for ya.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

I've never been a fan of Snyder at all and could easily believe he'd drop the ball on this movie, but still, it seems way too soon for "I knew it" posts. It's a rumor from one guy about an early cut of the film. Hardly an iceberg right ahead.

Not a "I knew it" guy, but what I am saying is a could very well believe it if the studio is worried.

Also, many like to play these things off as rumor and complete myth. I honestly can't think of many times when a film was truly successful from a creative point of view that had this stuff come out every so often.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

Fixed that for ya.

You do realize that works both ways right?

[solidsnake86]

This is hilarious, webmasters really have to think before posting on twitter because people pick it up as news.

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

You do realize that works both ways right?

Yep. Which is why I speak for myself and don't say "plenty of people like bad movies."

[DyeLorean]

I never really posted it as news, I simply put the twitter update, like another little thing/rumor to keep us talking about the movie (and arguing about directors )

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

Yep. Which is why I speak for myself and don't say "plenty of people like bad movies."

When did I write that?

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Plenty of bad films have cult followings. It also don't understand blaming the marketing when it opened well and dropped off dramatically. That is a more word of mouth thing then anything else. And I don't understand how you can claim I passed anything off as fact. If anything, you came off as defensive for no reason.

And so do many great ones such as Blade Runner, Fight Club and The Thing. Point?

You can't blame the film's failures purely on WOM if there was never an audience interested in seeing Watchmen in the first place. The fact is WB's marketing department let down the film. I mean, for the love of god the media blitz for Watchmen never materialized. The most polarizing interviews for the film were in the final week. The same goes for the tv spots. WB only started to air numerous spots for the film during the final stretch of the marketing (not even a week).

You made a statement saying that Snyder failed to pull off Watchmen. That is an opinion, not fact.

[TheComicbookKid]

This is feeling like a Twilight Zone ep.

We haven't seen any footage which makes anything about the movie seem more easily acceptable. We're caught in a vacuum so no matter what any info will seem possible even if we still have a year to fix it and most superhero movies have reshoots.

[Bruce_Begins]

I don't think that Nolan has time right now to look at the editing of MOS, Nolan must be quite busy before TDKR is released, shooting interviews to television channels and magazines, preparing to go to movie premieres around the world and such things.

Even if there is some problem, it is a good thing that we are hearing about it 11 months before the movie gets released rather than a month before that happens.

There is still plenty of time to reedit/ reshoot and make minor script changes, whatever needs to be done.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

And so do many great ones such as Blade Runner, Fight Club and The Thing. Point?

You can't blame the film's failures purely on WOM if there was never an audience interested in seeing Watchmen in the first place. The fact is WB's marketing department let down the film. I mean, for the love of god the media blitz for Watchmen never materialized. The most polarizing interviews for the film were in the final week. The same goes for the tv spots. WB only started to air numerous spots for the film during the final stretch of the marketing (not even a week).

You made a statement saying that Snyder failed to pull off Watchmen. That is an opinion, not fact.

Which means you can't use it as a basis for the film being good. There are good cult films and bad cult films. It has zero to do with the quality of a film. Cult following does not equal good film. That is more then fair.

And I don't understand how that argument can be made when plenty of people went to see it opening weekend. The numbers show it.

And yes that is an opinion. My opinion that I wrote. You are the one having a problem with my opinion apparently. So who exactly is at fault there?

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

I don't think that Nolan has time right now to look at the editing of MOS, Nolan must be quite busy before TDKR is released, shooting interviews to television channels and magazines, preparing to go to movie premieres around the world and such things.

Even if there is some problem, it is a good thing that we are hearing about it 11 months before the movie gets released rather than a month before that happens.

There is still plenty of time to reedit/ reshoot and make minor script changes, whatever needs to be done.

Exactly, lots of time to fix it if there is problem. I guess the rumour is now that Nolan is done with WB as well, so there are bound to be "sources" saying its all doom and gloom.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Lmao. People using baseless conjecture to spell doom and gloom. Another day at the hype.

A, now, deleted tweet based on 'rumblings'. The author has since backtracked on his tweet too.

Remember that deleted tweet from the critic that said TDKR's ending 'sounded' horrendous? I don't.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

You might as well add Watchmen to that list. While the film underwhelmed at the box office, the DVD and merchandise sales were good enough to warrant the film a success in WB's eyes.

WB wouldnt be seeking for more Watchmen films had Snyder's film failed.

More Watchmen films?

Do you have a source for this?


I wasn't aware of any internal movements at WB for more Watchmen movies.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by EtherMagic

I'll believe It when there is some concrete proof of this. Also, WB must be somewhat happy if they are gonna have a presentation at CC and start promoting it, they wouldn't have let Snyder continue on during filming if they didn't feel he was on the write path and liked what the were monitoring.

It's not a sign that a film is good or bad if they are having a presentation at Comic Con. Green Hornet was at Comic Con. Cased closed.

Also, they aren't going to drop Snyder mid way through filming, that does happen, but rare.

I wouldn't be worry about a Tweet. It doesn't mean anything. I find this hard to believe since Nolan and WB were all over the movie.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by Showtime

It's not a sign that a film is good or bad if they are having a presentation at Comic Con. Green Hornet was at Comic Con. Cased closed.

Also, they aren't going to drop Snyder mid way through filming, that does happen, but rare.

I wouldn't be worry about a Tweet. It doesn't mean anything. I find this hard to believe since Nolan and WB were all over the movie.

See Mr. Donner himself.

[Bruce_Begins]

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

Exactly, lots of time to fix it if there is problem. I guess the rumour is now that Nolan is done with WB as well, so there are bound to be "sources" saying its all doom and gloom.

Nolan is a professional who would not let some issues to ruin his long association he has with WB, he made the Bat trilogy and Inception for the Studios.

I am sure that execs value his opinions and if he thinks that he is not the right person for DC comics movies then it should be no problem for WB.

The sources are always trying to make it out of proportion, remember the rumor before TASM came out saying that Sony execs. were not happy with Marc Webb's TASM movie ?

[Showtime]

I believe the issues Nolan has is with Jeff Robinov himself, that is the buzz at least, that is going to be hard to get over.

[TheBat812]

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

Exactly, lots of time to fix it if there is problem. I guess the rumour is now that Nolan is done with WB as well, so there are bound to be "sources" saying its all doom and gloom.

Is he actually done with WB or just done with the Batman franchise? I have a feeling WB is going to want to keep him around to fund every and any film he wants.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Which means you can't use it as a basis for the film being good. There are good cult films and bad cult films. It has zero to do with the quality of a film. Cult following does not equal good film. That is more then fair.

You're right, it's based on opinion and preference.

And I don't understand how that argument can be made when plenty of people went to see it opening weekend. The numbers show it.

55 million on OW was not massive or a large number for a film that was projected to have an 80 million opening.

And yes that is an opinion. My opinion that I wrote. You are the one having a problem with my opinion apparently. So who exactly is at fault there?

Then make it clear that it's your opinion. You tend to write statements or analysis, and pass them off as the 'truth' (most recently with Prometheus). It makes you sound like a snob.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Showtime

I believe the issues Nolan has is with Jeff Robinov himself, that is the buzz at least, that is going to be hard to get over.

I don't like that.....at all.

Originally Posted by TheBat812

Is he actually done with WB or just done with the Batman franchise? I have a feeling WB is going to want to keep him around to fund every and any film he wants.

I'm pretty sure at this point Nolan could get massive offers from any studio. He has more than proven himself and he's on the map now.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I don't like that.....at all.

If WB doesn't give him the keys to the city over there, I can't imagine him hanging around. My personal opinion is he wants to make his movies and have his own spot on their lot like Clint Eastwood. They should give him anything he wants, I think they want him to still work with their comic properties and he doesn't want that.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Showtime

If WB doesn't give him the keys to the city over there, I can't imagine him hanging around. My personal opinion is he wants to make his movies and have his own spot on their lot like Clint Eastwood. They should give him anything he wants, I think they want him to still work with their comic properties and he doesn't want that.

Based on Nolan's tone and word choice in his most recent interview, I'm in complete agreement with that.


Something went south internally between him and Warners. Robinov seems to want one thing, and Nolan another.

Usually that ends with the two parties spliting ways.


I agree that WB needs to do everything they can to keep Nolan, but at the same time... I really think they want to cash-in on the Avengers hype train.