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Old 07-28-2012, 11:23 AM   #301
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

It's an interesting idea, that I felt wasnt carried out perfectly. Bringing it to live action could be a good chance to alter the sotry to make it better. However, I dont see how to make it without all those street level heroes/heroes with secret identities

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #302
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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How about not doing Civil War at all? It was easily one of the crappiest major company events of the past decade and the last thing we need is to see that train wreck filmed.
But that's kind of my point. Over the course of a trilogy or so, it couldn't really work anyway, especially since the Avengers don't really seem to be a team who hang together, but more a response unit who assemble only when the need arises, but go back to their own lives when the urgency has passed. And yes, it was one of the worst ideas from Marvel.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:29 AM   #303
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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You can do civil war without it being over secret identities.




Try it.
Most of the time when I see people say things like that? What they are really saying is "Invent this thing I want. Its easy. What? You want me to do the work? No."

Anyway, whether you could or couldn't do Civil War is moot. They *shouldn't* do Civil War. There are few ways they could kill interest in the entire franchise faster.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:35 AM   #304
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

Yep, Civil War would be absolute poison for the movie universe they've been trying to build. Just look how much damage it inflicted on the Marvel Universe and how long that lasted.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:39 AM   #305
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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Most of the time when I see people say things like that? What they are really saying is "Invent this thing I want. Its easy. What? You want me to do the work? No."

Anyway, whether you could or couldn't do Civil War is moot. They *shouldn't* do Civil War. There are few ways they could kill interest in the entire franchise faster.
I personally don't want it. I'm just facing the facts. I'm more interested in the realistic element of this than the "pining for things I want from these films and *****ing when I don't get it" element. When's the last time you've seen me post about wanting Kang in an Avengers film? It's never happening, so I've accepted it.

Ultron wouldn't excite the General Audience nearly as much as fanboys. He's got the same problem the Punisher does; being unique in comic books, but very trite in films. How do you sell an artificially intelligent robot as an interesting and unique concept for a generation that's grown up with the Terminator movies?

The Civil War concept on the other hand, was very unpopular with fanboys, but brought new readers to the table. Think about this, if absolutely no one who buys comics went to see Avengers? It would've only lost about $1-2 M in box office gross. Consider the fact that only half of those fanboys hated Civil War, and will still see the movie anyway, what does Marvel have to lose?

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:42 AM   #306
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

They have their new film fanbase to lose. Why in the world would they want to divide that fanbase? To have half of them hating half the characters starring in one batch of movies? Do you really want people saying "I'm not going to see the new Captain America because he was an idiot in Civil War", or "I'm not going to see the new Iron Man movie because he was a bastard in Civil War"? I doubt they'd want that, either.

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Ultron wouldn't excite the General Audience nearly as much as fanboys. He's got the same problem the Punisher does; being unique in comic books, but very trite in films. How do you sell an artificially intelligent robot as an interesting and unique concept for a generation that's grown up with the Terminator movies?
The same could be said for alien invasion movies, which there've been DOZENS of, and yet they went with an alien invasion in the very first Avengers movie. The new part isn't the artificial intelligence in a movie. The new element is having super-heroes fight that artificial intelligence.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:44 AM   #307
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

The mods here should make a sticky declaring any suggestions for a Civil War storyline can be punishable by banning from this point forward.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:46 AM   #308
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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They have their new film fanbase to lose. Why in the world would they want to divide that fanbase? To have half of them hating half the characters starring in one batch of movies? Do you really want people saying "I'm not going to see the new Captain America because he was an idiot in Civil War", or "I'm not going to see the new Iron Man movie because he was a bastard in Civil War"? I doubt they'd want that, either.



The same could be said for alien invasion movies, which there've been DOZENS of, and yet they went with an alien invasion in the very first Avengers movie. The new part isn't the artificial intelligence in a movie. The new element is having super-heroes fight that artificial intelligence.
Correcto. You develop a sympathetic relationship between Hank and Ultron and then turn it on its head.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:47 AM   #309
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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They have their new film fanbase to lose. Why in the world would they want to divide that fanbase? To have have of them hating half the characters starring in one batch of movies? Do you really want people saying "I'm not going to see the new Captain America because he was an idiot in Civil War", or "I'm not going to see the new Iron Man movie because he was a bastard in Civil War"? I doubt they'd want that, either.



The same could be said for alien invasion movies, which there've been DOZENS of, and yet they went with an alien invasion in the very first Avengers movie. The new part isn't the artificial intelligence in a movie. The new element is having super-heroes fight that artificial intelligence.
Again, that's great...and I don't want Civil War either. I want a Kang movie eventually...but I'm not getting it.

Marvel's going to go for the things they think will make them the most money.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:47 AM   #310
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

Yeah Civil War= terrible idea. I'm sicking of Marvel making their heroes the villains. Iron Man became an absolute douchebag in this story. Civil War was pretty bad only Avengers vs. X-Men is proving worse!

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:52 AM   #311
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

Who says Civil War would make them the most money, though? They're not going to go for something that's going to end up ruining their film universe, which Civil War would inevitably do.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:55 AM   #312
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

Avengers villains I want to see on screen:
Loki-check
Thanos-1/2 check
Ultron-?
Kang-?

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Old 07-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #313
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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Originally Posted by marcvader View Post
Avengers villains I want to see on screen:
Loki-check
Thanos-1/2 check
Ultron-?
Kang-?
My dream trilogy when they announced the first Avengers film was:

Masters of Evil
Ultron
Kang

but it seems like the Marvel Cinematic Universe is more interested in Modern Avengers concepts than the Silver Age stuff.

I was hoping that the success of the Avengers movie would enhance the status of classic Avengers villains, like Kang, but he's not even in the Marvel Avenger's Alliance game; it's almost all Spider-Man and X-Men villains.

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Old 07-28-2012, 12:08 PM   #314
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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I personally don't want it. I'm just facing the facts. I'm more interested in the realistic element of this than the "pining for things I want from these films and *****ing when I don't get it" element. When's the last time you've seen me post about wanting Kang in an Avengers film? It's never happening, so I've accepted it.

Ultron wouldn't excite the General Audience nearly as much as fanboys. He's got the same problem the Punisher does; being unique in comic books, but very trite in films. How do you sell an artificially intelligent robot as an interesting and unique concept for a generation that's grown up with the Terminator movies?

The Civil War concept on the other hand, was very unpopular with fanboys, but brought new readers to the table. Think about this, if absolutely no one who buys comics went to see Avengers? It would've only lost about $1-2 M in box office gross. Consider the fact that only half of those fanboys hated Civil War, and will still see the movie anyway, what does Marvel have to lose?
They would have everything to lose. Civil War would be career suicide for their characters. Do you really want audiences hating Iron Man (their most popular and financially successful character) in the same way as half the fanboys and even new readers did with the comics? Audiences will not see Cap in the same heroic light as in the comics, because Iron Man is already more popular than him. But equally, you can't cast Cap as a villain either.

Putting them all on the same team and fighting say, SHIELD, doesn't solve things either, because then it's not a Civil War. It's just an Avengers flick where they're breaking free from a government agency.

And Civil War in the movies would be poor storytelling for the reasons I've already given. It might be possible in a TV series, but not over the course of three films (even with other tie ins) because their relationships are just not established to have any significant impact, especially since they are just an emergency response team who only come together when needed.

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Old 07-28-2012, 12:32 PM   #315
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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Correcto. You develop a sympathetic relationship between Hank and Ultron and then turn it on its head.
You mean SCOTT LANG and Ultron? Because that's the direction the Ant-Man film is heading...

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Old 07-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #316
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

That was a detail from the first draft which hasn't been mentioned in something like five years. A lot's changed since then.

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Old 07-28-2012, 01:02 PM   #317
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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That was a detail from the first draft which hasn't been mentioned in something like five years. A lot's changed since then.
I guess you didn't see comic con? Everything Wright said still seems very in line with his original concept.

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Old 07-28-2012, 06:27 PM   #318
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

See my post on last page in regard to Ultron and Pym and Ant-Man focusing on Lang.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:07 PM   #319
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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See my post on last page in regard to Ultron and Pym and Ant-Man focusing on Lang.
99% of the time, you and I see eye to eye on things, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. Ruining an Avengers cornerstone like Pym just so (an admittedly very entertaining director) can have his dream project isn't acceptable in my eyes.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:17 PM   #320
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

Why can't Pym still build Ultron? Just because Scott Lang is now Ant-Man doesn't mean Pym isn't still a genius.

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Old 07-28-2012, 07:30 PM   #321
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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99% of the time, you and I see eye to eye on things, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. Ruining an Avengers cornerstone like Pym just so (an admittedly very entertaining director) can have his dream project isn't acceptable in my eyes.
Then you should start




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Old 07-28-2012, 09:02 PM   #322
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

I can see some of the themes of CIVIL WAR explored...but the storyline itself?

No thanks, and not for another 20 years.

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Old 08-01-2012, 01:04 PM   #323
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

Looks like this topic can be laid to rest. Here's new one (well, an old one that hasn't been discussed lately):

Are you guys okay with only minor characters making cameos in solo sequels for the entirety of the MCU franchise? MS won't want to waste 6-film deals they have with top-tier actors, so I don't think we'll ever see a major hero make an appearance in another hero's solo movie again. And no one's going to give Marvel a freebie anymore the way RDJ did with The Incredible Hulk. While I'm okay with never seeing Tony Stark show up in a Cap sequel, I also feel like that's kind of sad. What do you guys think?

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Old 08-01-2012, 01:43 PM   #324
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

you are most likely right. At this point, it really is best to keep them separate, I think. I mean, if Thor shows up to help Iron Man, not only does it take away from Iron Man's time in his own movie, but it takes away from the event movies like Avengers. Still, smaller characters, like Coulson, for example, help keep the continuity and "shared universe" feel.

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Old 08-01-2012, 02:14 PM   #325
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Default Re: MCU: Phase II - Part 1

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you are most likely right. At this point, it really is best to keep them separate, I think. I mean, if Thor shows up to help Iron Man, not only does it take away from Iron Man's time in his own movie, but it takes away from the event movies like Avengers. Still, smaller characters, like Coulson, for example, help keep the continuity and "shared universe" feel.
I hope they don't keep wheeling on his dead body for a cameo!

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