The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

[CConn]

Originally Posted by Brain Damage

You're right about this. But just like jumping from rooftops is ambitious, it doesn't always mean you're gonna have a soft landing



Yes for '89. The character work in TDK is superb, don't get me wrong (the best in ANY Batman film, I think) but the plot is also just as superb, I think. Whereas in '89 the story is serviceable, but it feels more like an excuse to get the various characters interacting with each other.

Eh, all TDK was was Joker causing havock and Batman reacting to it. It was a pretty standard plot structure.

[The Joker]

I remember Burton said he thinks Batman '89 is boring. He's more into Batman Returns.

[CConn]

Yeah, he did.

I disagree highly, but he did.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Of course he said that... his fingerprints are all over Returns.

I love both movies, but it's obvious he and Keaton had alot more fun (although less stimulating for Keaton) making the second one.

[The Joker]

Yeah, I read an interview with Keaton somewhere where he said he didn't find Returns as satisfying.

[Leenie]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I remember Burton said he thinks Batman '89 is boring. He's more into Batman Returns.

Burton is so, so wrong here. Haha.

Batman '89 still holds up, in my opinion. I absolutely love that movie. Returns didn't age quite as well (though it's worth watching for Michelle's performance as Catwoman alone).

[regwec]

Batman '89 is a brilliant film. It has been so ripped off that its original qualities are sometimes missed by first time viewers, but a lot of the atmosphere that people instinctively associate with Batman was crystallized in that movie. The Art Deco/Gothic design was really striking, the score was seminal, and Keaton's Batman is much more convincing than Bale's broody cipher, really.

[axecrazy]

Just a random thought on Returns. The carnage in Gotham Plaza during the first lighting of the tree is hilarious and horrifying at the same time.

Something about it just screams Gotham City. This is Gotham on a bad day. It's a crazy place where crazy things happen. A place where clowns are never funny, weird creatures live in the sewers, and disturbed people run around at night dressed as animals. That's Gotham, folks. Crazy... but somehow familiar in a strange way. I can easily picture Joker laughing his ass off at the whole Plaza scene. This is his kind of party. I think Ledger!Joker in particular would get on splendidly with Penguin and the RTCG. Talk about a match made in hell...

[RustyCage]

89 was inventive, changed things forever. But I'm not gonna pretend it isn't a bit of a snore at times too. I'm with Tim. The vision was there, but the energy was often lacking.

I would also agree that Returns hasn't aged well. But I'd only really say so regarding the humor, which is a bit too cartoonish. But that's Tim for you, he takes dark things and makes them seem light at times, so it doesn't bother me when I view it as a Burton movie over a strict Batman adaptation.

Other than my having a low tolerance for cartoony humor in Batman, it's great. There are more elements in that movie that stick with me or I find interesting to stew on than in 89. Might just be the romantic in me that has a preference toward Selina above all the other characters in the Burtonverse.

[redfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Leenie

Burton is so, so wrong here. Haha.

Batman '89 still holds up, in my opinion. I absolutely love that movie. Returns didn't age quite as well (though it's worth watching for Michelle's performance as Catwoman alone).

I prefer '89 overall, but Returns has much better production values (bigger budget helped obviously). The visual aspect of Returns is a lot better on Blu-ray than '89.

[Kane52630]

I grew up with Returns more than 89 (which I barely remember at the time) so naturally I'd put Returns over 89... but ever since I bought the Anthology bluray set a few years back, I started to watch 89 more times than Returns. (Still prefer Returns to this day though)

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

The BR Blu-ray transfer is impeccable looks as good as a brand new movie.

[Kane52630]

All of the Batman movies (From 1966 to Batman & Robin) look incredible on bluray. They really worked on making it look brand new.

[redfirebird2008]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

All of the Batman movies (From 1966 to Batman & Robin) look incredible on bluray.

Nah.

B66 looks great.
B89 looks average.
BR looks great.
BF looks average.
B&R looks average.
BB looks average.
TDK looks average.
TDKR looks great.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I wouldn't want Batman 89 to look too pristine anyway... I'm happy with the transfer it got.

[Two-Face]

I think the transfers on the Burton/Schumacher movies blurays are decent but best are Returns and Batman & Robin so cripsed transformation to a bluray.

Nolan ones are Begins and TDKR.

[theman]

Originally Posted by Leenie

Burton is so, so wrong here. Haha.

Batman '89 still holds up, in my opinion. I absolutely love that movie. Returns didn't age quite as well (though it's worth watching for Michelle's performance as Catwoman alone).

ummm WHAT? Returns has aged faaaar better then B89. I love both films to death but Returns isnt as special effects heavy as the first film was. its more about the story and characters, and the only real special effects are done very well and still look convincing today. in B89 you had cool but somewhat dated stuff like the batwing swooping down and sadly you can see its invisible and was superimposed from far away. and the cartoon joker falling down, and cartoon Batman in the beginning. Returns has faired much better, even down to the shielding. the timeless noir quality is tuned up a lot more for Returns then B89 which had a lot of late 80's styles.

also to mention, the bats in Returns look way more convincing and real then the so obviously CGI bats in begins.

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by theman

ummm WHAT? Returns has aged faaaar better then B89. I love both films to death but Returns isnt as special effects heavy as the first film was. its more about the story and characters, and the only real special effects are done very well and still look convincing today. in B89 you had cool but somewhat dated stuff like the batwing swooping down and sadly you can see its invisible and was superimposed from far away. and the cartoon joker falling down, and cartoon Batman in the beginning. Returns has faired much better, even down to the shielding. the timeless noir quality is tuned up a lot more for Returns then B89 which had a lot of late 80's styles.

also to mention, the bats in Returns look way more convincing and real then the so obviously CGI bats in begins.

I have to agree with this. Although I love the effects in Batman '89, the effects and visuals in Returns are far more seamless.

[regwec]

I don't really care how polished a visual effect is. By that yardstick, the most recent movie will always be the best. I think artistry and design count for much more.

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by regwec

I don't really care how polished a visual effect is. By that yardstick, the most recent movie will always be the best. I think artistry and design count for much more.

No because recent movies use ****** CGI that looks awful 99% of the time, like you're watching a video game. Batman Returns uses mostly practical effects and it looks very polished. The few times they do use CGI is not very noticeable, like the POV shot of the batarang, but it still looks cool.

In Batman '89, sometimes you can tell they are obvious model shots. Not that I mind that so much, because I'll still take models and practical effects work over CGI anyday.

[TruerToTheCore]

Batman Returns looks like it was shot in my garage.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Then you have one hell of a garage...

[Elevator Man]

I've been looking for this photo for a while now. Somebody (Bruce Wayne29) posted it in the locked Michael Keaton Appreciation Thread many years ago.

[antsman41]

Neal Adams' Batman brought to life^

[Elevator Man]

Originally Posted by antsman41

Neal Adams' Batman brought to life^

I don't mean to be a jerk when I say this, but thanks for that comic spoiler in your sig. Now I won't be surprised whenever I decide to read that story in TPB. Just saying.