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Old 10-21-2013, 12:18 AM   #651
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Wow, he was pretty brutal on it haha.

Honestly though, it's always been a divisive film for Bat-fans. I think he might be underestimating the age factor, where this movie was the first "big" Batman experience for kids who grew up in the 90s, cause he acted like this movie was universally hated when it certainly does have a pretty vocal fanbase who do have nostalgia for it, myself in included.

That said, even though I like Returns, I found the commentary pretty entertaining and funny at points.

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Old 10-21-2013, 05:50 AM   #652
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I truly think the appreciation for Returns has grown over the years.

It's a phenomenal movie and I still often find myself reaching for it than any of Nolan's movies. There's just something about it that grabbed me since I was a little kid.

Kevin Smith will sit and cry over inane things in that podcast but can't appreciate when an artist legitimately attempts something different with Batman. And after what he attempts to do with the character... that certainly saying something.

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Old 10-21-2013, 09:37 AM   #653
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Back In 2005 Michael Uslan called Batman Returns taken from the batman of 1990's

I can remember some trying to call returns a failure back In 1992.I often thought I was one
of few who actully liked film.

Michael Keaton remains the definite live action batman.Keaton brings the driven batman to life.And he's one who can't just quit.Michelle Pfeiffer Is my favorate Catwoman.

The relationship between batman and catwoman has never been better In live action.
Batman returns Is one comic Book film that defently Isn't just for kids.Catwoman as
dominatrix overtunes and S&M overtunes to batman and Catwoman have never been
stronger here.

Some might dismiss penguin as a Campy villain In returns I don't.

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Old 10-21-2013, 10:27 AM   #654
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Batman Returns was far from a failure it was in the top 3 highest grossing films that were released that year.

1 Aladdin $217,350,219
2 Home Alone 2: Lost in New York $173,585,516
3 Batman Returns $162,831,698

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Old 10-21-2013, 10:31 AM   #655
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

And it broke the opening weekend record...

It was critically and comercially successful. It just wasn't Batman '89.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:20 AM   #656
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I know batman returns was no failure that Is what some tried to claim.When you are
number 1 film of summer your no failure.

Remember some complained Reurns was too violent for a Pg-13 film.And catwoman was too
sexy for Pg-13 film as well.

Reaction to returns was one of reasons they used for going into campy direction with
Batman forever.And yeah I know Forever wasn't as far campy as Batman & Robin.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:49 AM   #657
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
Reaction to returns was one of reasons they used for going into campy direction with
Batman forever.And yeah I know Forever wasn't as far campy as Batman & Robin.
Well, there's the thing. I don't think BF was camper than BR. I think the term is somewhat misunderstood. BF was, however, less competently made.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:59 AM   #658
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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Well, there's the thing. I don't think BF was camper than BR. I think the term is somewhat misunderstood. BF was, however, less competently made.
True... I was watching the movie again last night and when the little computerised duck popped up on the Bat-Boat's computer screen, it made me chuckle.

Batman Returns has it's tongue firmly in it's cheek for many moments.

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Old 10-21-2013, 12:42 PM   #659
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Man, have I grown tired of people calling Batman Returns campy. There's a lot of humor in it, a good deal of absurdity, but not everything with absurd humor is camp. I feel like the word "campy" is often misused, because it's not the clearest concept, it's not that easy to define and keep consistent. Batman Forever absolutely is campier than Returns, there's much more of the "sophistication looking down on ridiculousness, but celebrating it anyway" in that than there is in Burton's films. Burton's films did take these characters and the world they inhabit seriously, while allowing for some absurd humor. Dark/serious stories can have idiosyncratic humor without turning into camp. I wonder if there would be anywhere near as many - or any - people calling Burton's films campy if Nolan's didn't exist. And I'm sure I wouldn't be as sensitive to hearing Batman/Batman Returns called (dismissed, really) campy if I didn't know that Burton was after the opposite, and that they used to be originally perceived as the opposite.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:35 PM   #660
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I would describe it as a dark, twisted, surreal cartoon come to life. Which I guess is kind of Tim Burton's sensibilities in a nutshell.

There certainly are campy elements in Batman Returns (in the purest sense of the word), but it would be off base and misleading to just say it's a "campy film" the way one might describe Batman & Robin. Returns is a lot of things.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:45 PM   #661
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I don't see "camp" as pejorative. All Hammer Horror films are camp, and I love them.

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Old 10-21-2013, 01:56 PM   #662
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Yeah, it's incorrectly slid into something of a blanket term for anything that a given fanbase deems cheesy/corny/stupid, etc.

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:29 PM   #663
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I rewatched the film today and I'd never noticed the Mayor's costume at Shreck's ball before - a knife in his back. Very cool

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Old 10-21-2013, 03:46 PM   #664
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I love how Penguin casually wallops him on the arm with his umbrella to get him out of his way.

Hilarious.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:50 PM   #665
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Anyone else here share the same opinion as me,

Returns is better than it's predecessor?

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:57 PM   #666
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Some do, I don't.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:59 PM   #667
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I tend to flip flop back and forth...

Everything Burton got wrong with Batman '89 he got right with Batman Returns, and vice-versa.

Still love them both dearly.

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Old 10-21-2013, 05:14 PM   #668
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Both of the Burton flicks had pretty flimsy scripts. But Returns was one of the most gorgeous looking films I have ever seen, still is. And Elfman's work has never been better.

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Old 10-21-2013, 05:31 PM   #669
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Quote:
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Anyone else here share the same opinion as me,

Returns is better than it's predecessor?
Right here. Liked it more as a kid and still do today. I've always found the first Batman to be rather dry and lacking momentum.

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Old 10-21-2013, 07:14 PM   #670
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I call Returns better than Batman 1989.Not a popular oporion to have but it has become less unpopular than It was after batman returns came out.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:05 PM   #671
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

It's a much better film. It's richer, it's sadder, it's funnier, it's more exciting, the Elfman score is even grander, on and on.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:06 PM   #672
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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Anyone else here share the same opinion as me,

Returns is better than it's predecessor?
Yes. A lot better. The story and the villains are FAR more interesting.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:15 PM   #673
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I will always love '89 more and think of it as the better of the two but BR is in a very close second place. Regwec mentioned Hammer films above and I couldn't see more of a similarity to BR, Burton is a huge Hammer fan and it shows in his films the influence sometimes oozes out, even in BR at times.

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Old 10-21-2013, 11:40 PM   #674
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I've always preferred BR to B'89, too.

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Old 10-22-2013, 12:12 AM   #675
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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It's a much better film. It's richer, it's sadder, it's funnier, it's more exciting, the Elfman score is even grander, on and on.
It's certainly a purer Tim Burton film. I like his first Batman movie a lot but it feels quite a bit more like a studio-driven product. The licensed Prince songs are probably the most egregious examples of this. Comparatively Returns is an expressionistic art film; a dark, often ugly one at that. It astounds me to this day that it was a huge tent-pole movie released in summer. Can you imagine going into the theater to watch a superhero event flick and watching that unfold? There's nothing else like it really.

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