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Old 11-30-2013, 10:57 AM   #726
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Exactly man. As much as i love the visuals for Returns, god that mistletoe dialogue scene is stupid. It's trying too hard to be sexual, and the line has always been pretty corny. Being more subtle with the odd hint has always been more "sexy" than being super straight forward and agressive with it like Pfeiffers interpretation. Which to me just makes her seem like a tramp lol. Of course in this version she's more of a psycho, a villain, so it works for the movie.

Visually though, it's a great Christmas movie! In a slightly disturbing way

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Old 11-30-2013, 11:43 AM   #727
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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She used the implication of sex to her advantage rather than just being kinky for the sake of it. I bought it.
I don't think Pfeiffer's interpretation isn't "being sexy for the sake of it" either. Rather, there's a dramatic shift in her character after falling to her "death" that causes a switch to go off. She becomes more unlike the Selina we saw before - a bit prudish maybe, naive, and sexually frustrated. In taking on the cat persona - presumably from the cats having rescued her, and also for fact that Shreck repeatedly refers to her in a catlike manner - Selina uses that sexual awakening as an immediate act of defiance towards the man who murdered her. You can see this right from the moment she confronts him in his office with Bruce Wayne present. Also, I think this is evidenced from scene where she creates the suit after hearing the message about having a "candlelight staff meeting with the boss" on her answering machine. She proceeds to have a meltdown, then immediately looks for a way to turn into this "cat", as her boss referred to her.

PS... I watched the movie last night as a start to the holiday season.

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Old 11-30-2013, 12:00 PM   #728
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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I don't think Pfeiffer's interpretation isn't "being sexy for the sake of it" either. Rather, there's a dramatic shift in her character after falling to her "death" that causes a switch to go off. She becomes more unlike the Selina we saw before - a bit prudish maybe, naive, and sexually frustrated. In taking on the cat persona - presumably from the cats having rescued her, and also for fact that Shreck repeatedly refers to her in a catlike manner - Selina uses that sexual awakening as an immediate act of defiance towards the man who murdered her. You can see this right from the moment she confronts him in his office with Bruce Wayne present. Also, I think this is evidenced from scene where she creates the suit after hearing the message about having a "candlelight staff meeting with the boss" on her answering machine. She proceeds to have a meltdown, then immediately looks for a way to turn into this "cat", as her boss referred to her.

PS... I watched the movie last night as a start to the holiday season.
Actually, you're right...they went the "sexual liberation" route for her character. It's not that it was purposeless in the context of the movie, but it's hard for me to separate that entirely from the general "sex sells" Hollywood mindset. Especially when things like her giving herself a bath did nothing for the overall plot and are just there.

Mind you, I still am a big fan of Pfieffer's version, I just don't think that it's the only way to be sexy.

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Old 11-30-2013, 05:21 PM   #729
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Honestly... I felt Anne's Catwoman was totally lacking in sensuality. It's was just so vanilla.

In fact, TDKR was on TV tonight and Hathaway's version falls lower in my estimations after every viewing. Nolan completely de-clawed the character and it was ultimately too bland in the final analysis.

Just the way I feel.

About time you got around to some BR gifs Kane.

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Old 11-30-2013, 05:24 PM   #730
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Vanilla may be a touch flattening. To me, she was tap water. With no ice.

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Old 11-30-2013, 05:53 PM   #731
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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Honestly... I felt Anne's Catwoman was totally lacking in sensuality. It's was just so vanilla.

In fact, TDKR was on TV tonight and Hathaway's version falls lower in my estimations after every viewing. Nolan completely de-clawed the character and it was ultimately too bland in the final analysis.

Just the way I feel.

About time you got around to some BR gifs Kane.
De-clawed the character? Compared to what? Pfeiffer's version? Sure. But Michelle's version was taking it way overboard, overacting, oversexual, waaay more fantastical than what it needed to be. Anne's Selina and Catwoman was much closer to the source material and she didn't even need a whip.

Maybe the perfect Catwoman hasn't happened yet. That would be a level in between Nolan's and Burton's.

When i see Hathaway as Selina i feel like im watching SELINA. Nowadays when i watch Pfeiffer i kinda roll my eyes because it's another character name in a catsuit.

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Old 11-30-2013, 05:55 PM   #732
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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About time you got around to some BR gifs Kane.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:10 PM   #733
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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De-clawed the character? Compared to what? Pfeiffer's version? Sure. But Michelle's version was taking it way overboard, overacting, oversexual, waaay more fantastical than what it needed to be. Anne's Selina and Catwoman was much closer to the source material and she didn't even need a whip.

Maybe the perfect Catwoman hasn't happened yet. That would be a level in between Nolan's and Burton's.

When i see Hathaway as Selina i feel like im watching SELINA. Nowadays when i watch Pfeiffer i kinda roll my eyes because it's another character name in a catsuit.
As opposed to Nolan's generic Bond girl in a cat-suit?

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:16 PM   #734
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Bond girls tend to be more exotic and exciting.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:23 PM   #735
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Sadly... your right. She didn't even captivate me in the way some Bond girls do.

I honestly don't know who I lay the blame on more. Nolan or Hathaway.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:30 PM   #736
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I think they both tried their best. But it was like the collaboration of a vicar and a virgin.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:34 PM   #737
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I'm going back and forth between these Catwomen on who's my favorite.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:35 PM   #738
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

For me both were great for the films they were in. Yeah, boring answer.

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Old 12-01-2013, 01:52 AM   #739
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:29 AM   #740
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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For me both were great for the films they were in. Yeah, boring answer.
But the right one.

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Old 12-01-2013, 07:10 AM   #741
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Man... nobody has ever shot Batman quite like Burton.

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Old 12-01-2013, 09:55 AM   #742
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:24 AM   #743
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I noticed something in Batman Returns I hadn't seen before...
I wish I had a higher resolution of this, but does anyone know what this is supposed to be in the back of the batcave?



Is it just me or does that look like a giant the eye of -say- a tyrant lizard peering through a crack in the cave?

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Old 12-01-2013, 10:47 AM   #744
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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Sadly... your right. She didn't even captivate me in the way some Bond girls do.

I honestly don't know who I lay the blame on more. Nolan or Hathaway.
Not to be mean, but you should probably lay the blame on yourself if you didnt like it. Because it's just opinion.

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As opposed to Nolan's generic Bond girl in a cat-suit?
Talia was the Bond-girl. Pfeiffer's "Selina" had nothing to do with Selina. Nothing. Nolan's Selina was actually how Selina is in the comics. Sorry but it's apples and oranges. It's pretty simple. One is Selina, one isn't. But right now im not talking about how they are in the catsuit. If one prefers the cowl/whip over Hathaways ears, etc? Then that's fair. I also prefer the cowl. Makes sense.

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Probably my favorite scene from Returns.

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Old 12-01-2013, 10:54 AM   #745
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The whole Hathaway vs. Pfeiffer debate is really nothing more than a simple matter of taste. I could see why some would think Hathaway's version was bland, but for me her performance maximized the role as it was written (which was ultimately not that big a role). There was a lot of talk about how Hathaway used Hedy Lamarr as inspiration for the role, and the truth is I really did get some of that 1940s femme fatale vibe in the performance. She did something very subtle in her voice, it was a very breathy tone and not how she usually talks. It felt timeless to me, she actually disappeared and made me forget that it was Anne Hathaway. I only saw Selina. Anything "vanilla" in her performance probably had to do with her being more towards the "good side" than Pfeiffer's. She never co-plotted against Batman with the big bad just because her pride was hurt, everything she did was just looking out for her own skin. Being a non-origin film for Catwoman, her performance had to convey a lot of the backstory and pathos, and I definitely felt like I knew exactly who that Selina was when I walked out of the movie. And I wanted to see more of her.

And yes, thank you Kane for keeping us on topic with sweet gifs. That scene where Batman is patrolling and keeping an eye on Oswald is so creepy to me, I've always loved it. Especially love Elfman's score during that sequence.

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Old 12-01-2013, 10:55 AM   #746
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back of teh batmobile

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Old 12-01-2013, 11:05 AM   #747
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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The whole Hathaway vs. Pfeiffer debate is really nothing more than a simple matter of taste. I could see why some would think Hathaway's version was bland, but for me her performance maximized the role as it was written (which was ultimately not that big a role). There was a lot of talk about how Hathaway used Hedy Lamarr as inspiration for the role, and the truth is I really did get some of that 1940s femme fatale vibe in the performance. She did something very subtle in her voice, it was a very breathy tone and not how she usually talks. It felt timeless to me. Being a non-origin film for Catwoman, her performance had to convey a lot of the backstory and pathos, and I definitely felt like I knew exactly who that Selina was when I walked out of the movie. And I wanted to see more of her.

And yes, thank you Kane for keeping us on topic with sweet gifs. That scene where Batman is patrolling and keeping an eye on Oswald is so creepy to me, I've always loved it. Especially love Elfman's score during that sequence.
I dont even think it's a matter of being nice. It's just fact at this point. Michelle is a good actress and so is Anne. They both did well with what they were given. But there shouldn't be an argument, even for the people who loved Pfeiffer's Selina. Because if you take away the suit and the visuals that come with it and just look at the character...Michelle's version had nothing to do with Selina. While Anne's was simply her. It's not even a matter of taste.

The taste part is whether a person liked it or not and that's up to them. But facts are facts.

Also Anne took inspiration from the actress that literally influenced the creation of the character originally.

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Old 12-01-2013, 11:09 AM   #748
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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I dont even think it's a matter of being nice. It's just fact at this point. Michelle is a good actress and so is Anne. They both did well with what they were given. But there shouldn't be an argument, even for the people who loved Pfeiffer's Selina. Because if you take away the suit and the visuals that come with it and just look at the character...Michelle's version had nothing to do with Selina. While Anne's was simply her. It's not even a matter of taste.

The taste part is whether a person liked it or not and that's up to them. But facts are facts.

Also Anne took inspiration from the actress that literally influenced the creation of the character originally.
Oh, I agree with that. Anne's version was a much more definitive Selina in characterization. The taste part I'm referring to is how well one likes the performances.

I feel like I have to keep clarifying that I love Pfieffer's version too, and I get it- it's more of a "powerhouse" performance. But that's what was written for her. Hathaway is an example of someone making the most out of a smaller role and nearly stealing the show.

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Old 12-01-2013, 11:13 AM   #749
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for me her performance maximized the role as it was written
I feel almost the opposite way about it. Shauner is correct to say that TDKR's Selina was written much closer to the comicbook original (or, at least, the comicbook original as it has been presented for the last 10-15 years), but I found Hathaway to be so bland and anaemic that I didn't feel that I had experienced Catwoman in a movie context. Pfieffer's Catwoman, although given a novel storyline and origin, felt like the character to me, and it is a tribute to Pfieffer that she was able to inhabit the role so fully. When I watch BR, I feel like I am watching an "elseworlds" Catwoman. When I see TDKR, I feel that I am seeing a generic stand-in for Catwoman, who was excluded from the movie at the last moment by licensing reasons.

It's only fair to say that Pfieffer got much more assistance from her costume, however, which was a design classic and has probably remained a bedtime favourite with couples all over the world. To me, Hathaway's costume was almost as boring as her performance.

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Old 12-01-2013, 11:21 AM   #750
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Like I said, matter of taste. It's a very irreconcilable difference of opinions here. And I think a lot it has to do with the subjectivity of what one finds "sexy", etc. Though for me, the fact that the costume was basically a modern update of Newmar added to that "timeless sex appeal" factor.

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