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Old 08-15-2012, 02:50 PM   #126
jaqua99
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Default Re: Ultron is Pym's dark feelings and hate made real

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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Yeah guys. I like to discuss Ultron in my Ultron thread...do that more. Less Thanos/Gauntlet talk.
Thank you

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Ultron stealing the Gauntlet was a joke on my part. Didn't realize folks would take it seriously.

Anyhow, in your scenario, seems more likely that Scott Lang would steal the Power Gem than Hank Pym. It would be pretty hard to come up with a scenario where either Ant-Man would just happen to find a stray Power Gem lying around the lab, though.

Plus, it goes contrary to one of the things that makes Ultron so terrifying: his ability to upgrade himself. You defeat him, he just makes Ultron-2. And Ultron-3. And so on. With each iteration more powerful than before. That's kind of what Ultron is known for. It takes away from his identity to just say some magic cosmic gem is what gives him all his power. Ultron needs to be grounded in reality, not magic. (And face it, Ultron is a very realistic possibility....a self-replicating, self-aware AI.)
No lie, that second paragraph gave me chills

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Originally Posted by catintheengine View Post
It doesn't have to be simply lying around a lab.

Here's an idea I just came up with that would, hypothetically, explain the Power Gem:

Hank Pym is working for Advanced Idea Mechanics. They're a company that considers Stark Industries a rival and they've seen how the arc-reactor is powering Stark Tower in NYC. They can't just allow Stark Industries to have such a great upper-hand when it comes to clean energy, so they start trying to come up with anything to rival the arc-reactor.

Now, maybe AIM is interested in geo-thermal energy as an alternative to the arc-reactor, or maybe they think vibranium is the key, so they have Pym and his assistant, Ms. Janet Van Dyne, develop some 'dumb' A.I. to take core samples or something. In one such sample they actually find something viable - but it isn't vibranium or anything like that - it's something completely new and it seems to only be this single gem that possesses this "clean energy". It's basically a perpetual battery....

Continue on with the Ant-Man story, Pym discovers that AIM has some sort of nefarious intention, yadda yadda yadda....

At the end of the movie (or at least in the last half), Pym recovers "this power gem" (which he wants to submit as a new element discovery and wants it called 'ultronanium' or something like that) So towards the end Pym develops a 'true' A.I. - an 'intelligent' A.I., that will run on this battery that never runs out of juice - and dubs it 'Project Ultron'. Lead into Avengers 2.


Just a quick little idea I had.
I like it. Seriously. Though, personally, I would want Ultron already to be introduced before Avengers 2. That's what worked for the avengers. They had all the time to develop the team and story, without origins. I would prefer Ultron gets created in ant-man, and I told my friend this. We see hints of him through out the movie. He never says anything of it though.

However, we get references to Ultron through out the movie, in ant-man. Then the after credit scene is say, Hank goes into a room. We are watching him from Ultron's perspective. We see hank walk over to a desk, picks up some glasses, and a voice says, good evening doctor pym. And Hank looks at the camera and says, Hi Ultron, forgot my glasses. He holds up his classes, smiles, and leaves. Then as he shuts off the lights (its not totally dark) the camera changes to Ultron's face, at the time, his eyes and mouth are blue, and for about 3 seconds, it flickers on, then off, then on, then off. Then stays off for about 3 seconds, then it turns back on red.

Then back to blue. and it ends.

That would be perfect for me.

So by the time Avengers 2 roles around, Ultron can already be created

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Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
This I like. I like the idea that Pym's most successful scientific contribution and a breakthrough becomes a massive threat to life on Earth. But also I want to see it be presented to also show that Ultron is Pym's dark side given form. Pym has very real mental problems, and secretly resents his friends, his team of Avengers, his wife, himself, his colleagues, etc. And when he scans his own mind for the blueprints to Ultron's brain Ultron becomes sort of the evil version of Pym. I also think Ultron would continue on and along with his upgrades he would upgrade his mind and formulate his own hatred and reasons for them. And Pym being like his father, Ultron is like the son who learns to be full of hate at his father's rivals from his father. Pym blames himself and feels more guilt than he is actually blamed for. He also would feel such guilt because all his doubts, fears, hatred, resentments, anger, sadness, etc, have been made public in a very big and public way. Plus Pym already suffers from real mental problems like anxiety, stress, schizophrenia, etc. So this wouldn't help him.
So its like Frankenstein's monster, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde sort of, and a father and son story.
Bring in the idea that Ultron creates Vision, and Vision sees the flaws in Ultron's hate and turns against his own father, and it becomes a generational thing. The grandfather (Pym) inadvertently passes down his hate to his son (Ultron), the son (Ultron) passes down his hate to his own son (Vision) who listens to the grandfather who has changed his heart. Ultimately Vision would in a way redeem Pym.

So true

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Old 08-15-2012, 03:12 PM   #127
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Default Re: Ultron

Yeah, I agree jaqua99. Introduce Ultron in Ant-Man, develop him as a threat in Avengers.

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Old 08-17-2012, 02:32 PM   #128
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Default Re: Ultron

And the stupid rumors of vin diesel for vision in avengers 2, hopefully it's not him, but if Vision is actually an avenger in the movies, then Ultron WILL happen

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...ers-2-20120817

not sure how much I buy this though

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Old 08-25-2012, 03:51 PM   #129
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Default Re: Ultron

I agree with others that Ultron's initial creation should start as a side note in an Ant Man movie,
but became a major villain in Avengers. And I think the perfect story to base it off of is Avengers
Assembled: Ultron Unlimited. Where Ultron returns in a major way, by wiping out an entire island
of all life, human and plant and animal. He did this by creating a large army of drone Ultrons built
to follow him and obey every command.
(I hope all my pictures work, if they are not images of the Avengers, Ultron, the Vision of Pym
please let me know so I can fix it.)

Quote:
The European country of Slorenia is dead. Every man, woman and child, eliminated with
the cold precision of a machine. And out of the flaming remnants of this tiny Baltic state comes a
message from its murderer: Mankind's dominance of the Earth is to be challenged and its days
numbered... because ULTRON has returned!
So the Avengers and an army of soldiers
are sent by the UN and must stop Ultron and his army of Ultron drones before he commits global
genocide and rebuilds Earth with robots.So I think they should adapt this idea.
Pym is focused on a little more in this film. We see that he isn't the boring hero he seems to be.
Deep down he has feelings of resentment for his fellow Avengers. He feels inferior to them, to his
wife, to the rest of the world perhaps. We start to see the cracks in his mental state. Maybe not a
full blown psychotic breakdown, but he starts to feel a little paranoid and sees things a little. But he
finishes his side project he had been working on before he became Ant Man. Ultron. Using his own
mind as a blueprint Pym finishes his AI experiment, but it goes wrong. Ultron then attacks him and
the Avengers must come to his rescue (or something, not sure how this scene should actually go.)
Have Ultron created in Ant Man, but rebel in Avengers. He battles the Avengers, proving he is more
than a match for the whole team, and escapes. It is reveled maybe through Ultron's dialogue and how
he attacks the Avengers that his mind is based on Pym's and that Pym secretly hates his team to a
degree. Not only that, but his fragile mental state is exposed too, his paranoia and schizophrenia
and stuff. The scene would be very much Pym's darkest secrets revealed to his friends and colleagues
in a very public way. (Ultron should also sound like an electronic version of Pym's voice.)

Pym just feels the worst he could feel. At this point it also becomes about how the Avengers now
respond to Hank, how can they trust him now? We see how each responds to him? Things are a little
uneasy at the Avengers mansion/HQ. Especially between Pym and Janet.
Ultron builds the Vision (perhaps out of an unknown need that would be traced by to Pym's need to
invent life or something. Also Ultron creates Vision as a weapon against the Avengers out of Pym's
hatred of them. He then goes into his final plans, mass produces lesser versions of himself for an army
of drones and wipes out a small island nation, and sends a message to the UN and the Avengers.



I am not sure where the Vision should fit into this, should he be a villain through most of the movie?
Oh, I know, Vision is then sent to attack and kill the Avengers. But In the battle he falters because he
sees the error in Ultron's programming and is stopped by the Avengers.

Pym and Stark and Banner go about reprogramming the Vision (possibly off screen). The Avengers and
soldiers show up and battle the Ultron drones who aren't as tough as Ultron (but tough enough to kill
many soldiers and a small island of civilians) and are clearly mindless, but are so numerous that it makes
it a tough battle for the Avengers. During the battle Wasp is kidnapped, for starters. Ultron plans to use
the Avenger's minds a blueprints for his new robot civilization, starting with Janet (who since Ultron is
Pym's dark side sees Janet as the blueprint for his robot mate).

Led by the Vision and Pym the Avengers are able to get through most of the drones and to Ultron and
Janet. In a huge battle with Ultron most of the Avengers fall and are too injured to get up, but it must
come down to Vision and Pym who stop Ultron.

The whole movie could be Pym wrestling with his dark side, except instead of it would be very real
and physical with his dark side having a robot body and his good side (the Vision) also having a robot
body. It would also be generational, Pym is the father of Ultron, Ultron is the father of Vision, so Pym
is the grandfather to the Vision. He failed with Ultron, but perhaps he can be redeemed with the Vision.
The whole time Pym and the Avengers are fighting Ultron Hank could be feeling like his creation, his son,
has turned on him. He could feel such guilt, because it was his own brain scan, but it would also be like
a father who feels like he failed his son and all the son's wrong choices and bad life, and mistakes, are
somehow the father's fault. By the end of the film the Avengers are stronger, Pym is stronger, his
relationship with Janet is stronger, and he now has a "grandson" to guide. All the Avengers do in a way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
Not sure, but I think my idea would have enough story with the army of
Ultron taken out. Just put them there because they were in Ultron Unlimited, and explained how Ultron
murdered an entire island so far, and Gave them more to fight than just one tough robot.
But I agree, wouldn't want it to be too similar to Avengers 1. Perhaps the army isn't complete yet, and
there is only a small handful building other drones. The plan would still be the replace all life on Earth
with the robot drones.
Added idea
Ultron wants to destroy all life on Earth, but he wants a wife/girlfriend and companions (which is why he
plans to use the Avenger's minds to give his drones their own personalities). So even though he rejects
humanity he still is mimicking it.

AND
Vision should look like a robotic Vision version of hank Pym. Ultron consciously or subconsciously made
Vision look like his father. Perhaps as a way to remind Pym of his failure, the weapon of Ultron's destruction
of the Avengers looks like Hank Pym the man who made Ultron to begin with. A way to jab the knife in
deeper. Or perhaps without knowing Ultron made him look like Pym out of some unrealized sense of family
or something.


Last edited by Artistsean; 08-25-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:14 PM   #130
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Default Re: Ultron

I prefer there not be a robot army as it is too similar to Avengers. I'd rather he be the sole menace and taking on the whole team by himself showing his ability to rebuild and adapt.

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Old 08-27-2012, 02:21 PM   #131
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Default Re: Ultron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
I agree with others that Ultron's initial creation should start as a side note in an Ant Man movie,
but became a major villain in Avengers. And I think the perfect story to base it off of is Avengers
Assembled: Ultron Unlimited. Where Ultron returns in a major way, by wiping out an entire island
of all life, human and plant and animal. He did this by creating a large army of drone Ultrons built
to follow him and obey every command.
(I hope all my pictures work, if they are not images of the Avengers, Ultron, the Vision of Pym
please let me know so I can fix it.)

So the Avengers and an army of soldiers
are sent by the UN and must stop Ultron and his army of Ultron drones before he commits global
genocide and rebuilds Earth with robots.So I think they should adapt this idea.
Pym is focused on a little more in this film. We see that he isn't the boring hero he seems to be.
Deep down he has feelings of resentment for his fellow Avengers. He feels inferior to them, to his
wife, to the rest of the world perhaps. We start to see the cracks in his mental state. Maybe not a
full blown psychotic breakdown, but he starts to feel a little paranoid and sees things a little. But he
finishes his side project he had been working on before he became Ant Man. Ultron. Using his own
mind as a blueprint Pym finishes his AI experiment, but it goes wrong. Ultron then attacks him and
the Avengers must come to his rescue (or something, not sure how this scene should actually go.)
Have Ultron created in Ant Man, but rebel in Avengers. He battles the Avengers, proving he is more
than a match for the whole team, and escapes. It is reveled maybe through Ultron's dialogue and how
he attacks the Avengers that his mind is based on Pym's and that Pym secretly hates his team to a
degree. Not only that, but his fragile mental state is exposed too, his paranoia and schizophrenia
and stuff. The scene would be very much Pym's darkest secrets revealed to his friends and colleagues
in a very public way. (Ultron should also sound like an electronic version of Pym's voice.)

Pym just feels the worst he could feel. At this point it also becomes about how the Avengers now
respond to Hank, how can they trust him now? We see how each responds to him? Things are a little
uneasy at the Avengers mansion/HQ. Especially between Pym and Janet.
Ultron builds the Vision (perhaps out of an unknown need that would be traced by to Pym's need to
invent life or something. Also Ultron creates Vision as a weapon against the Avengers out of Pym's
hatred of them. He then goes into his final plans, mass produces lesser versions of himself for an army
of drones and wipes out a small island nation, and sends a message to the UN and the Avengers.



I am not sure where the Vision should fit into this, should he be a villain through most of the movie?
Oh, I know, Vision is then sent to attack and kill the Avengers. But In the battle he falters because he
sees the error in Ultron's programming and is stopped by the Avengers.

Pym and Stark and Banner go about reprogramming the Vision (possibly off screen). The Avengers and
soldiers show up and battle the Ultron drones who aren't as tough as Ultron (but tough enough to kill
many soldiers and a small island of civilians) and are clearly mindless, but are so numerous that it makes
it a tough battle for the Avengers. During the battle Wasp is kidnapped, for starters. Ultron plans to use
the Avenger's minds a blueprints for his new robot civilization, starting with Janet (who since Ultron is
Pym's dark side sees Janet as the blueprint for his robot mate).

Led by the Vision and Pym the Avengers are able to get through most of the drones and to Ultron and
Janet. In a huge battle with Ultron most of the Avengers fall and are too injured to get up, but it must
come down to Vision and Pym who stop Ultron.

The whole movie could be Pym wrestling with his dark side, except instead of it would be very real
and physical with his dark side having a robot body and his good side (the Vision) also having a robot
body. It would also be generational, Pym is the father of Ultron, Ultron is the father of Vision, so Pym
is the grandfather to the Vision. He failed with Ultron, but perhaps he can be redeemed with the Vision.
The whole time Pym and the Avengers are fighting Ultron Hank could be feeling like his creation, his son,
has turned on him. He could feel such guilt, because it was his own brain scan, but it would also be like
a father who feels like he failed his son and all the son's wrong choices and bad life, and mistakes, are
somehow the father's fault. By the end of the film the Avengers are stronger, Pym is stronger, his
relationship with Janet is stronger, and he now has a "grandson" to guide. All the Avengers do in a way.
Good. Except I would want Vision to have a change of "heart" (if you will) on his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcvader View Post
I prefer there not be a robot army as it is too similar to Avengers. I'd rather he be the sole menace and taking on the whole team by himself showing his ability to rebuild and adapt.
This. He is menacing enough. He can readapt. Built a new body. And his AI lives on in every computer system. And he can control computers world wide. That would be menacing enough.

Though there needs to be a speech. Ultron HAS to make a speech

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Old 08-28-2012, 10:56 AM   #132
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Default Re: Ultron

I agree about no mindless army of Ultrons, but what if, since he is a robot they are all of one mind (his). Same concept but instead he was saving these robots for his new world but instead has to use them to fight the Avengers. AS they destroy one another pops up and another and another and another, after they defeat one another pops up. Eventually Ultron doesn't even wait to pop into another body so then he is controlling about 5 or 8 or 15 Ultrons who all have his mind. So they are almost like his limbs or fingers instead of his bodies. Would that work better?

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Old 08-28-2012, 05:41 PM   #133
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Default Re: Ultron

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Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
I agree about no mindless army of Ultrons, but what if, since he is a robot they are all of one mind (his). Same concept but instead he was saving these robots for his new world but instead has to use them to fight the Avengers. AS they destroy one another pops up and another and another and another, after they defeat one another pops up. Eventually Ultron doesn't even wait to pop into another body so then he is controlling about 5 or 8 or 15 Ultrons who all have his mind. So they are almost like his limbs or fingers instead of his bodies. Would that work better?
Would work for me. Particularly since invoking the "oh, ****" scene from Ultron Unlimited would be a good idea.

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Old 09-02-2012, 10:41 PM   #134
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Just had a thought, what if Ultron creates the Vision to be like the Super Adaptoid (able to mimic everyone's powers) only to have him get defeated by the avengers and when he is rebuilt they can only build him to have the powers the Vision has in the comics now? Just a way to use Super Adaptoid (a robot) in the film with Ultron (a robot) and Vision (another robot).

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Old 09-02-2012, 11:43 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
Just had a thought, what if Ultron creates the Vision to be like the Super Adaptoid (able to mimic everyone's powers) only to have him get defeated by the avengers and when he is rebuilt they can only build him to have the powers the Vision has in the comics now? Just a way to use Super Adaptoid (a robot) in the film with Ultron (a robot) and Vision (another robot).
I actually LIKE that idea.

its too cool, they will never think of that.

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Old 09-03-2012, 10:48 PM   #136
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I really liked how Vision was addressed in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon. There was the error that allowed him to be stopped but then he made a conscious decision on his own to disobey Ultron and help the Avengers. Part of the error was that he was learning and adding humanity to his programming.

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Old 09-04-2012, 10:44 PM   #137
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I agree. Wherever, in my various ideas and postings about Ultron in the Avengers movies, replace the (Avengers defeats the Vision) with (Ultron defeats the Vision). Like in the cartoon I think that Vision should come to the decision on his own, but he still gets rebuilt by the Avengers so that could be because Ultron attacked him like in the cartoon.

So this would still work if they wanted to do the Adaptoid Adaptation in the Vision/Ultron story.

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Old 09-05-2012, 06:34 PM   #138
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I don't know. I think that might be throwing too many evil robots together in one story.

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Old 09-06-2012, 07:00 PM   #139
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I don't know. I think that might be throwing too many evil robots together in one story.
In my idea the Vision would still look like the Vision (perhaps with minor differences) but have the Super Adaptoid's powers. Once he is rebuilt by the Avengers he would only have the Vision's powers from the comic. Only robots in the movie would be Ultron and the Vision.

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Old 09-12-2012, 04:37 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
Just had a thought, what if Ultron creates the Vision to be like the Super Adaptoid (able to mimic everyone's powers) only to have him get defeated by the avengers and when he is rebuilt they can only build him to have the powers the Vision has in the comics now? Just a way to use Super Adaptoid (a robot) in the film with Ultron (a robot) and Vision (another robot).
I would actually have Super Adaptoid and Vision as two separate robots, one gets fully destroyed and the other converted.

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Old 11-19-2012, 05:06 PM   #141
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:50 AM   #142
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There would be the risk therefore of an Avengers sequel becoming Ant Man 2.

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Old 11-20-2012, 11:31 AM   #143
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There would be the risk therefore of an Avengers sequel becoming Ant Man 2.
Just like Avengers was at risk of becoming Thor 2?

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Old 11-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #144
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yeah,I wouldn't say that

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Old 11-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #145
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I'm more worried about Thanos becoming the main villain in Avengers 2 and 3 leaving no room for Ultron or anyone else. I would LOVE for Ultron to be the bad guy in Avengers 3.
If Whedon works on A3 I trust he could pull it off without making it a Pym film, even though I do think Ultron needs to be Pym's dark side brought to life and for the focus to sort of be on Pym. And in that film I'd like it to lead to Vision being an Avenger. Hank Pym (father) built Ultron (son) and instilled in him (inadvertently) his hate. Ultron (now the father) builds Vision (Ultron's son) and instills in him his hate. Hank Pym (grandfather) saves Vision (grandson) from fate he couldn't save Ultron (son) from, and brings Vision to the good side.
The story would have a generational theme, a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde theme, stuff like that. Good stuff.


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Old 11-24-2012, 12:49 PM   #146
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I'm more worried about Thanos becoming the main villain in Avengers 2 and 3 leaving no room for Ultron or anyone else. I would LOVE for Ultron to be the bad guy in Avengers 3.
If Whedon works on A3 I trust he could pull it off without making it a Pym film, even though I do think Ultron needs to be Pym's dark side brought to life and for the focus to sort of be on Pym. And in that film I'd like it to lead to Vision being an Avenger.
Yeah, thanos may be around for a while, but with the rumors of janet in ironman, and the rumors of masters of evil, hell, we could get ultron this movie, ya never know.

even if not, just cause thanos may be avengers 2 and 3, does't mean they stop after 4

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Old 11-24-2012, 01:09 PM   #147
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I hope they keep going and make Avengers a rotating cast and keep the films going. Maybe Thanos was introduced in Avengers but will be used in Guardians of the Galaxy.

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Old 11-25-2012, 03:45 AM   #148
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He might feature in both films.

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Old 11-25-2012, 11:55 AM   #149
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I would prefer if Thanos was just the villain in Guardians of the Galaxy than Avengers

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Old 11-25-2012, 02:05 PM   #150
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Well, it also all depends on when Ant Man shows up. What if Ant Man isn't ready by Avengers 2, but is by Avengers 3? So Maybe if Ant Man isn't in Avengers till the 3rd, maybe Ultron should be saved till the 3rd or 4th. If Ant Man isn't read until the 4th Avengers film then maybe they should save Ultron till the 4th or 5th. Ultron needs to be in an Avengers film in my opinion and should be saved for when Ant Man is available.

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