Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

[Nathan]

You don't have to show how he learned every single thing. I don't think even the comics bothered to do that.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

It's one thing to touch on these skills and it's another to explain that they're both a rare kind of mastery and a result very early and obsessive devotion.

The audience doesn't realize those skills were acquired by sacrificing an entire childhood and adolescence for training under dozens of top level mentors.

Why is that important?

Because it shows an incredibly abnormal devotion to training cemented the moment Bruce's parents were shot sacrificing his childhood in every sense and that Bruce's various mentors unknowingly raised him with his singular goal of becoming a legendary crime fighter and that is the only reason, outside of great genes, he's so much better at crime fighting than anyone else.

All of this to me is essential to the character. Without it he's just an American ninja with a big bank account who puts on a batsuit instead of the Alexander the Great of crime fighters.

BTW - Alexander the Great was molded for leadership since he was a child and became one of the best visionaries or leaders who ever lived because of it.

Nathan pretty much says it best.

Originally Posted by Nathan

You don't have to show how he learned every single thing. I don't think even the comics bothered to do that.

I find what we got in Batman Begins was just enough, because we see these other skills in the trilogy anyways throughout.

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Ehhh who trained him before Ra's?

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Ra's starts calling out all of Bruce's fighting styles in Begins, "Tiger, jujitsu", etc. He had to learn 'em somewhere.

Exactly. That's not to say it's comparable to Bruce's other knowledgable skills, but it does show that he has been trained before, or was self-taught to where he knew how to fight.

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm not saying you have to show Bruce master hundreds of skills.

But if you show a small child training in tracking, escape artistry, and computer hacking you get the idea of how long Bruce has been acquiring skills which makes Batman's wealth of knowledge fully understood, fully accepted and far more believable.

The audience gets from Batman Begins that Batman is good at some things because he trained with ninjas and has alot of money but that just makes Batman a rather basic action hero. The endless and obsessive training since childhood origin is what truly explains Batman's legendary readiness and elevates him far above the bulk of mortal and even god-like superheroes. Not simply ninjitsu or high tech gadgets but rather Alexander the Great level mentorship.

[Anno_Domini]

Do we need to know how long Bruce acquired these skills when we see Bruce using the skills when he needs to during the trilogy?

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I'm not saying you have to show Bruce master hundreds of skills.

But if you show a small child training in tracking, escape artistry, and computer hacking you get the idea of how long Bruce has been acquiring skills which makes Batman's wealth of knowledge fully understood, fully accepted and far more believable.

The audience gets from Batman Begins that Batman is good at some things because he trained with ninjas and has alot of money but that just makes Batman a rather basic action hero. The endless and obsessive training since childhood origin is what truly explains Batman's legendary readiness and elevates him far above the bulk of mortal and even god-like superheroes. Not simply ninjitsu or high tech gadgets but rather Alexander the Great level mentorship.

Yup would have been nice to see more. I like what Nolan showed though. Just wanted more.

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I really wouldn't consider handful of kung fu styles "alot of training" when compared to Batman's overall knowledge and skills.

He had more than a "handful of kung fu styles", not to mention that those "kung fu styles" take YEARS to master. And the fight style he used is one of the most effective martial arts in the world.

Originally Posted by Nathan

You don't have to show how he learned every single thing. I don't think even the comics bothered to do that.

Exactly, thank you. We don't NEED to see every aspect of this training.

[Binker]

Here's a question for you guys: how many scenes do you remember, and how many lines can you quote, from each film?

BTW, I'm not voting in this poll. Why? The guy forgot one other option: all, duh lol jk

[Alex Logan]

Originally Posted by Binker

Here's a question for you guys: how many scenes do you remember, and how many lines can you quote, from each film?

Remember a lot of scenes and...

"Theatricality and deception, powerful agents for the uninitiated. But we are initiated, aren't we Bruce?"

Originally Posted by Binker

BTW, I'm not voting in this poll. Why? The guy forgot one other option: all, duh lol jk

Ha ha ha. Indeed.

[DACrowe]

If people are going to bring up Alexander, one should bring up that he was forced to be raised that way and was a willful child who disliked some of the ways he was groomed by his father, a man who may or may not have been assassinated via proxy by Alexander's mother (so Alexander could kill Phillip's younger wife and son). Not exactly a great analogy to make....

I honestly don't mind the deviation. Fans will nitpick it, but I think a Bruce Wayne who was adrift until about 20 about what to do is far more interesting than a Bruce Wayne who makes a promise as a grief-stricken 8-year-old and supposedly keeps it without question or hesitation from that point forward. A young man full of anger and grief--and perhaps some psychological issue that arrests him in a state of adolescent rage--who spends 7 years training himself seems more human.

Now does 7 years of training sound as believable as about 20? No. But no amount of "preparation" makes the concept of Batman more believable after a certain point, so whatevs.

As to the point of the original question: I used to say Begins is hands down better than TDKR, but I am no longer sure. Begins has a better pace and plotting...but that's in large part due to it having the conventional superhero origin story (see Superman: The Movie, Spider-Man (2002) and Iron Man, among others, for more). TDKR while a bit more flawed in structure, offers a much richer film in terms of character development for the supporting cast (save for Gordon) and a far more intimate look into this world. Also, Selina Kyle is a much better character than Rachel Dawes. And while on paper and at first glance I prefer Ra's Al Ghul as a villain to Bane, the way Nolan used Bane in TDKR created a lot more tension and intimidation, as well as probing more into the idea of foreign ideological terrorists in a more explored way than he did by squeezing Ra's's return into the third act of Begins. Not to mention TDKR does more to relate it to our world in unsettling ways, while Begins feels more like a perfectly told adventure yarn.

So, it's a toss-up now for me. The Dark Knight though is still clearly the best of the trilogy. That is not even a question.

[Anno_Domini]

So do some posters feel differently about which film they voted as the best now?

[Excelsior.]

I agree about with DACrowe about not being entirely sure about putting Begins above Rises without question. I think what begs emphasis is that Bruce Wayne's arc stops dead in its track after the first hour, while Rises really commits to Bruce Wayne all the way through. That is a clear flaw of Begins and an area Rises excells at. Heck, even TDK's small arc for Bruce takes place over the entire film, as it should. On the other hand, Begins has the better handling of villains as they progress higher up the food chain. Falcone smoothly leads us to Scarecrow, who then makes way for Ras; and Earl was a competent villain for Fox and Bruce. All the antagonists get their day in the sun. In Rises, Dagget is absolutely useless, Bane dominates the entire film only to be tossed awkwardly aside for Talia. Another problem I have with Begins is the tonal schism between the first and last half, the first half is a contemplative drama while the second half is a relatively light on its action film. TDKR doesn't get a free pass either, as I thought the second act felt like an entire different film than the Superheroish first and third acts. Only TDK seemed to be tonally harmonious all the way through. At the end, I would put them in equal footing overall with distinct positive and negatives.

BB - 6.5 ....maybe 7/10.

Rises - 7/10

TDK - 8.5/10.

[kvz5]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

So do some posters feel differently about which film they voted as the best now?

The order's still the same for me and the gaps increased a bit more.

[hellblazer103]

i really wish i could've taken back my vote. i voted " rises " right after seeing the movie out of hype for it. i kind of realize that my favorite movie is still TDK, although personally i think bruce's story is told the best in begins.


i'd rank it as 2,1,3.

[CConn]

I voted for Rises, and the more time that passes, the more certain its my favorite.

TDK is a great, great film. And Ledger's Joker eclipses pretty much anything else. But I simply love the expansive, massive storytelling that TDKR captures. Its a Tale of Two Cities, its Les Miserables, but, IMO, its done better than either of those stories have ever been done theatrically. Add onto that Tom Hardy's pretty incredible performance as Bane, and I'm satistified.

[DCW]

I still rank them

The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Begins

The more I see TDKR the more I appreciate it though.

[RustyCage]

Probably the most complicated thing I'd ever have to decide.

I literally cannot vote on this. lol

I typed up several paragraphs comparing and analyzing them all, but it's still a jumbled mess of preferences and pros and cons that I can't justify firmly choosing between.

[Anno_Domini]

Lol, yah, I can see how choosing one over the other would be difficult. To me, however, the films only got better and better and I felt that ever since the midnight viewing of TDKR. But, I just wanted to know what others thought...I wouldn't want to vote again though because I like the trilogy as a whole as one giant cinematic experience that's just phenomenal from beginning to end.

Although, the only thing truly missing is Coleman Reese in TDKR, but I digress.

[BatLobsterRises]

I originally voted TDK, and I still think it's probably TDK if I had a gun to my head, but very often I find myself wondering if I might slowly be leaning towards Rises more. The thing about TDK is it's a very taut thriller. It is like 2 and a half hours of pure tension the whole way through the first time you watch it. No matter how great it is, it's kind of hard to recapture that exact sense of "HOLY CRAP WTF IS GOING TO HAPPEN" when you re-watch it. Luckily, there's a lot of meat on the bones there and some amazing performances that really make it stand the test of time. So I still think it's a masterpiece, and I kinda see Ledger's performance as almost the crowning jewel of the whole trilogy. It was a truly groundbreaking movie, has a classic ending and in all likelihood it will go down as the "Empire Strikes Back" of this series.

But while Rises is definitely the most bloated and structurally odd (I wouldn't say it's structured "badly", just different), it offers a lot of emotional depth and a sense of epic wonder that keeps me coming back. It somehow manages to pull off marrying the darkness and complexity of TDK with the heart and underlying positivity of BB. Yet it's also the bleakest and very much an apocalyptic final chapter. And because the canvas is so large, it seems to be a never-ending source of amazing parallels, metaphors, callbacks, etc. We've analyzed the crap out of it, but I still think there's more to be discovered. I feel the same about TDK too.

And then there's Begins, which I seem to love more and more every time I watch it. So yeah, I'm with you RustyCage...very hard to put into words how If feel, haha.

I still say that the trilogy as a whole is better than any of the movies individually. It's a journey worth taking.

[Deathlok]

For me, it has to be, The Dark Knight. It just got so many things right.

[RustyCage]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I originally voted TDK, and I still think it's probably TDK if I had a gun to my head, but very often I find myself wondering if I might slowly be leaning towards Rises more. The thing about TDK is it's a very taut thriller. It is like 2 and a half hours of pure tension the whole way through the first time you watch it. No matter how great it is, it's kind of hard to recapture that exact sense of "HOLY CRAP WTF IS GOING TO HAPPEN" when you re-watch it. Luckily, there's a lot of meat on the bones there and some amazing performances that really make it stand the test of time. So I still think it's a masterpiece, and I kinda see Ledger's performance as almost the crowning jewel of the whole trilogy. It was a truly groundbreaking movie, has a classic ending and in all likelihood it will go down as the "Empire Strikes Back" of this series.

But while Rises is definitely the most bloated and structurally odd (I wouldn't say it's structured "badly", just different), it offers a lot of emotional depth and a sense of epic wonder that keeps me coming back. It somehow manages to pull off marrying the darkness and complexity of TDK with the heart and underlying positivity of BB. Yet it's also the bleakest and very much an apocalyptic final chapter. And because the canvas is so large, it seems to be a never-ending source of amazing parallels, metaphors, callbacks, etc. We've analyzed the crap out of it, but I still think there's more to be discovered. I feel the same about TDK too.

And then there's Begins, which I seem to love more and more every time I watch it. So yeah, I'm with you RustyCage...very hard to put into words how If feel, haha.

I still say that the trilogy as a whole is better than any of the movies individually. It's a journey worth taking.

See, this is why I friended you.

When I broke it down, I realized that in each film there's a strong element missing that another film in the trilogy does beautifully. They kind of trade off, take different priorities.

So ultimately, I concluded that they complete each other. It's all one experience, not three. That's what makes playing favorites so tough.

You honestly are reinforcing my urge to vote TDK. Same reasoning. haha

TDK doesn't scratch my 'Batman' itch like BB does, but it's just so gorgeously tense and layered. There's so much to chew on and get lost thinking about. Very rewatchable, even after you know all the plot twists. It's a suspense ride the first time, like no other. But on repeat viewings, it still jolts your morals, jolts your critical thinking skills. And I find myself reveling in analysis of the character portrayals, even 4-5 years later.

[Ryan]

I think I'll always go back and forth between Begins and TDK. I still think Begins was the best Batman movie and liked the direction it took. TDK still remains as the best comic book movie I"ve ever seen so I'd probably keep my vote the same.

[Piper Maru]

The Dark Knight is the best.

[Lord]

The Dark Knight is the best one, and i'm sure it will age well

[titansupes]

The Dark Knight is the best one, and probably my favourite. But I LOVE The Dark Knight Rises, too. It overtakes TDK in my mind, every now and then.

Batman Begins, I like. But it's too 'small' and 'regular' for it to hit me the way the other two did.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by titansupes

The Dark Knight is the best one, and probably my favourite. But I LOVE The Dark Knight Rises, too. It overtakes TDK in my mind, every now and then.

Batman Begins, I like. But it's too 'small' and 'regular' for it to hit me the way the other two did.

I agree entirely.

I was always disappointed in BB for that reason. Reading the BB script, it really plays out as this really epic and expansive story...but Nolan just wasn't able to properly translate that large scope onto the screen.