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View Poll Results: Which is the best?
Batman Begins (2005) 64 18.55%
The Dark Knight (2008) 144 41.74%
The Dark Knight Rises (2012) 137 39.71%
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #601
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

I think it's kind of undermining both Burton and Nolan a bit to say it's not hard to make an influential film. Yes, Batman is an iconic character but you have to bring a vision to it that resonates with people.

I also think the more influential Batman films there are, the harder it is for the next director to step in and make something equally as influential. Which makes it all the more impressive if they manage to. But I agree, making something "influential" isn't what the next director is tasked with. Their job will be to make a good film first and foremost that once again resonates with people. Nolan's films aimed to transcend the genre, which is why they're able to influence other films outside the CBM genre. Perhaps the next director will want to stay more firmly rooted in the genre.

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Old 02-11-2013, 01:05 PM   #602
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Lol, Batman 89 didnt influence other films?

The early 90's were filled with Darker noir comic book characters such as The Shadow, Darkman, and The Crow, and the "Dick Tracy" film were no doubt responses to Batman. Stallone once said that Batman 89 represented the death of muscle-bound action heroes, since now all you had to do was get a fake rubber outfit to look badass. Even the short lived Flash TV show was influenced by B89.

People need to stop acting like Nolan's Batman was the only time Batman was influential. That's just revisionist history. And like someone mentioned before, B89 changed the way comic book movies were marketed. It had one of the best marketing campaigns in film history. The reason you see every superhero having Textured, detailed "Armor" like outfits is because of B89. Batman 89 is the second most influential comic book film of all time.

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People always claim that Batman's villains are more interesting than he is. Even in the comics.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:00 PM   #603
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The Shadow and The Crow were already "dark" stories though. To say a movie influenced them to be dark is giving Batman '89 too much credit, imo.

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Old 02-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #604
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The Shadow and The Crow would not have been made without Batman 89 coming out first. That's influence.

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Old 02-11-2013, 06:57 PM   #605
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Is that fact?

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Old 02-11-2013, 07:05 PM   #606
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

I'm sorry, but to even breathe that B89 didn't have a very large significance and influence is just downright laughable.

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Old 02-11-2013, 07:09 PM   #607
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

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I think it's kind of undermining both Burton and Nolan a bit to say it's not hard to make an influential film. Yes, Batman is an iconic character but you have to bring a vision to it that resonates with people.
I wouldn't say so. I'm not at all trying to say that either Nolan nor Burton aren't incredibly talented filmmakers - they're two of my favorites - but there's a lot of incredibly talented filmmakers out there. If Burton and Nolan were able to do it, I think its perfectly plausible that another could as well.

But that's all supposition anyway, of course.

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Old 02-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #608
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

I can't see how anyone wouldn't think that B89 didn't have a huge influence. While it might not have been my favourite movie, its impact was huge and continues to last. While I never said that Nolan's film couldn't be outdone, I was pointing out that it would be a huge task. I am definately up for whatever reboot they come up with and give it a fair chance. Even though I'm a huge fan of BB and TDK, there is always room for different interpretations.

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Old 02-11-2013, 07:42 PM   #609
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

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I wouldn't say so. I'm not at all trying to say that either Nolan nor Burton aren't incredibly talented filmmakers - they're two of my favorites - but there's a lot of incredibly talented filmmakers out there. If Burton and Nolan were able to do it, I think its perfectly plausible that another could as well.

But that's all supposition anyway, of course.
Well yeah, I agree that there are other talented filmmakers out there capable of leaving their mark on the character. It's still a tall mountain to climb though, and the more existing portrayals there are, the more creative you have to get to stand out. Luckily Batman is an extremely malleable character and world.

It's quite possible the next Bat-director hasn't even made their first Hollywood film yet, which is an exiting prospect.

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Old 02-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #610
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Guys...The Shadow and The Crow.

I do not see how Batman '89 is the reason, or at least the influence, of those films to have been made unless someone actually brings it up as it being mentioned that Batman '89 helped these two movies get made.

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Old 02-11-2013, 08:58 PM   #611
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

And I'm sorry, you're just flat out wrong. And the mere fact you can't see that suggests an inherent bias that would make it pointless to attempt to convince you otherwise.

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Old 02-11-2013, 09:07 PM   #612
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^ This.

The idea that Nolan's Batman was the first and only time Batman had influence in live action is downright ridiculous and only shows that Anno must not have been around during the late 80's/early 90's.

But I'm sure all these dark superheroes would've gotten movies without Batman 89 opening the door for them, cause before Batman 89, the demand was clearly there for dark, tortured superhero films. Clearly.

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Old 02-11-2013, 09:11 PM   #613
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Lol, I think you two are overreaching just a tad bit. I'm not saying Batman '89 couldn't have inspired Darkman or Dark City for an another example, but I don't believe it influenced The Shadow or The Crow.

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Old 02-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #614
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

There are different types of influence, to be fair. There's the type where one movie becomes a huge hit and Hollywood starts greenlighting anything resembling said hit in an effort to capitalize on whatever the in "thing" is.

And then there's the kind of influence where the filmmakers themselves specifically citing a film as an inspiration. A more subtle kind of influence.

However, I think you can make the argument that Batman 89 was highly influential even on the Nolan films, not just because of the rubber suit in BB, but also because Nolan consciously made a lot of choices that helped differentiate his film from Burton's. It's the same way Nolan's films will inevitably influence the next set of films; you have to be mindful of what's come before if you want to reinvent it. This may not be a direct influence, but it's influence none the less. There's been a ripple effect from Burton to Schumacher to Nolan- one has led to the next.

Also, I always felt like Daredevil was a bit of a Batman 89 wannabe.

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Old 02-11-2013, 11:13 PM   #615
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Also, I always felt like Daredevil was a bit of a Batman 89 wannabe.
And now WB wanted Affleck to be Batman. Full circle!

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Old 02-11-2013, 11:17 PM   #616
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And now WB wanted Affleck to be Batman. Full circle!
Lol. It never ceases to amaze me how clueless WB is with Batman when left to their own devices

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Old 02-12-2013, 05:26 AM   #617
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Well influence (the hollywood kind) doesn't necessarily come from artistic merits .

Burton's Batman , i think , was hugely influential ...because it was very very successful (not because how good it is , although i still love it).

So some projects got green-lighted to try to mimic the same success. They grabbed stories that fight the genre and the tone (shadow for instance) and they made them.

Other movies tried to mimic the style because it was shown that dark superhero stories could be made as a motion picture and once again...be successful.

I think what Anno_Domini was trying to say was that some of the movies you guys mentioned weren't inspired by Burton's work , they were actually chosen because they were already similar to that sort of tone.

B89 was quite a pop-culture phenomenon.

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Old 02-12-2013, 11:29 AM   #618
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I think what Anno_Domini was trying to say was that some of the movies you guys mentioned weren't inspired by Burton's work , they were actually chosen because they were already similar to that sort of tone.
I thought others would have understood that, but I guess not, lol.

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Old 02-12-2013, 11:33 AM   #619
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While I wasn't a fan of Batman89 when it came out, I can appreciate the cultural impact it had, and the impact it had on films in general. To ignore that would be quite simply ignorant or a refusal to accept the truth. Perhaps if we had not had the success of Batman 89, we might not have been able to have had great films like Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

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Old 02-12-2013, 11:35 AM   #620
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Perhaps if we had not had the success of Batman 89, we might not have been able to have had great films like Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.
Wasn't Nolan more inspired by Superman: The Movie when making Batman Begins?

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Old 02-12-2013, 11:56 AM   #621
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Wasn't Nolan more inspired by Superman: The Movie when making Batman Begins?
He definitely was. However, he still would not have been able to make Batman Begins if Burton's film wasn't what it was. The fact that Batman 89 didn't give Batman a true origin story, and placed Batman in an art deco noirish Gotham is precisely what gave him the opportunity to dive in and tell Bruce Wayne's origin story in a realistic setting.

And it can't be said enough that Burton's film is truly what exposed a larger audience to the fact that Batman was a darker character. Especially to a generation of non-comic book reading folks who grew up on the 60s show. It was definitely a huge part of Batman's cultural evolution.

Then Schumacher's films knocked him back a few decades .

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:15 PM   #622
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Okay, I had thought so that Nolan was more inspired by Donner's work.

True, Burton's gothic-like Gotham definitely could have pushed Nolan into making a Batman film in a more realistic/relatable setting. I had always thought of that, and seeing Schumacher's duology definitely pushed Nolan into making a SERIOUS Batman again, lol.

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Old 02-12-2013, 01:02 PM   #623
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Positive or negative reaction, it doesnt matter. The Burton/Shumacher influenced Nolan to go an opposite direction. It is still an "influence". Burtons movies were extremely gothic, claustrophobic and fantastical. Nolan enjoys those movies but they influenced him to go more "real-world", expansive and relatable.

Shumachers influenced his decisions (and WB) to go more dark and serious. Without the side-kicks and one-liners.

I imagine Nolans trilogy will influence the next director to make more serious Batman films but i can see Burtons influence (in a more positive reaction) coming into it. As well as certain video games or animation rather than the graphic novels/crime films that Nolan took inspiration from.

The Crow could have been more inspired by Bladerunner than Batman though, i dont really know too much about the history of that movie.

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Old 02-12-2013, 04:56 PM   #624
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TDk's influence is finally being felt with Skyfall and JJ namedropping it as an influence for Star Trek 2. Before that it was all Begins doing the influencing.
Indeed: http://www.slashfilm.com/damon-linde...e-dark-knight/

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Old 02-12-2013, 05:51 PM   #625
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Default Re: Fear. Chaos. Pain. Vote for your favorite Nolan Batfilm!

It's kind of cool how when TDK came out, Nolan referenced films like Godfather II and The Empire Strikes Back, and now when it comes to doing a bigger and better sequel "The Dark Knight" seems to be the template people are looking toward.

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