Discussion: Voting ID and Voting Rights

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by chaseter

I really don't care about the story behind why someone lost something. That's your fault, not anyone else's. You can argue that the cost to obtain replacements is high, that's fine and I really can't argue otherwise. If they were stolen and you had a police report, maybe it should be that you get replacements quicker and cheaper. That's another argument to be had elsewhere. Losing and theft however are two entirely different arguments entirely. The argument here was that because said papers were lost, he still should be able to vote even without proper id. No...that's dumb. That's what I said and I stick by it. Random people shouldn't be able to waltz in and vote with no checks.

Those voter fraud numbers are reported/prosecuted cases...how the heck do people report voter fraud if they have no idea who the person is or if their id is valid?

Regardless of how it happened the outcomes are the same (you received a loss). Regardless of how you feel about it the 24th Amendment says that the right of Citizens shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay a poll tax. If a person has to pay to get the proper documents to make him/her eligible to vote, then that could be construed as a type of tax, which would be in violation of the constitution, especially if the person was registered before and was on the roles, he shouldn't be denied his right to vote.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by dnno1

Regardless of how it happened the outcomes are the same (you received a loss). Regardless of how you feel about it the 24th Amendment says that the right of Citizens shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay a poll tax. If a person has to pay to get the proper documents to make him/her eligible to vote, then that could be construed as a type of tax, which would be in violation of the constitution, especially if the person was registered before and was on the roles, he shouldn't be denied his right to vote.

No, sorry....it is not a poll tax....not in any form or fashion. And when these states are showing that they are willing to work to make this in some cases...FREE....that dog don't hunt. So to speak.....

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Kelly

No, sorry....it is not a poll tax....not in any form or fashion. And when these states are showing that they are willing to work to make this in some cases...FREE....that dog don't hunt. So to speak.....

The 24th amendment says "a poll tax or any other tax". Having to pay a fee for a government service (like getting a new naturalization papers for the purpose of proving citizenship required to get on the voter registration list) is a tax (we just went through this exercise with the health care law) and hence unconstitutional. I am not sure where Bathead lives, but Pennsylvania was just in court today about this matter. The Secretary of State testified that she didn't know what their law said nor how many people would be affected by it (some say 8 million). I couldn't see how they could be helpful if they don't even know what's going on.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Looks like the Voter ID could cause problems in PA.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...day/?mobile=nc

[Kelly]

First thing they need to do, is audit their list....they will find, just as Texas did....that there is a huge amount of doubling and tripling of the same name, as well as people who, in fact....have IDs....

Then, I would hire people to get on the phones....(that would help the job numbers for Obama before the election....lol)

Find out who needs transportation, and who can get to the nearest HS or churches on their own. Churches could also do it on Sundays, much like they do their Church albums.

Have about 10 computers set up with cameras...most HS today have these because they are needed for student IDs....

The cards are 3 dollars, if they are on food stamps, then they are free....give those people a list, a long list of what they can use to prove who they are, and that they live in that precinct, they need to have two of those items....

School buses can be used from 9:00 to 1:00 to bring people to the high school, if they need transportation. Churches can be used as well....

It can be done....

[SV Fan]

Originally Posted by Kelly

It can be done....

Sure it can be done, but I think getting it done is not the priority of the people who made the laws

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by SV Fan

Sure it can be done, but I think getting it done is not the priority of the people who made the laws

I can't necessarily disagree with that....

[chaseter]

Originally Posted by dnno1

Regardless of how it happened the outcomes are the same (you received a loss). Regardless of how you feel about it the 24th Amendment says that the right of Citizens shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay a poll tax. If a person has to pay to get the proper documents to make him/her eligible to vote, then that could be construed as a type of tax, which would be in violation of the constitution, especially if the person was registered before and was on the roles, he shouldn't be denied his right to vote.

The key word here is


CITIZEN


How do you know who a citizen is? Should it not matter...because that is what it sounds like you are advocating.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by chaseter

The key word here is


CITIZEN


How do you know who a citizen is? Should it not matter...because that is what it sounds like you are advocating.

Well, that should be information that the government should already know since they were the one who granted that status to the person. Why should the person show any more proof than his name?

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by dnno1

Well, that should be information that the government should already know since they were the one who granted that status to the person. Why should the person show any more proof than his name?

What if that ISN'T his name....

[bell110]

Originally Posted by Kelly

First thing they need to do, is audit their list....they will find, just as Texas did....that there is a huge amount of doubling and tripling of the same name, as well as people who, in fact....have IDs....

Then, I would hire people to get on the phones....(that would help the job numbers for Obama before the election....lol)

Find out who needs transportation, and who can get to the nearest HS or churches on their own. Churches could also do it on Sundays, much like they do their Church albums.

Have about 10 computers set up with cameras...most HS today have these because they are needed for student IDs....

The cards are 3 dollars, if they are on food stamps, then they are free....give those people a list, a long list of what they can use to prove who they are, and that they live in that precinct, they need to have two of those items....

School buses can be used from 9:00 to 1:00 to bring people to the high school, if they need transportation. Churches can be used as well....

It can be done....

That's a lot of effort to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by chaseter

The key word here is


CITIZEN


How do you know who a citizen is? Should it not matter...because that is what it sounds like you are advocating.

You prove you're a citizen when you register to vote.

People can't just walk in and vote. In my state, you have to go to the polling place you are assigned and tell them your name and address. Unless they know all three things, they aren't taking anybody's vote.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by bell110

That's a lot of effort to fix a problem that doesn't exist.



You prove you're a citizen when you register to vote.

People can't just walk in and vote. In my state, you have to go to the polling place you are assigned and tell them your name and address. Unless they know all three things, they aren't taking anybody's vote.

IMO, its not about proving you are a citizen...yes that is taken care of when you register to vote.....but I honestly have no problem with showing ID, I have been voting for 24 years...and I have had to show my ID every time....with all that these states are saying they can do....there should be no problem in getting everyone some form of ID...WHICH EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE, not having an ID is just stupid, and there is no other word for it....

The problem I see for now, is not enough time to set in place what needs to be done to do this effectively and efficiently....but it can be done, and it should be done.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Kelly

What if that ISN'T his name....

They have record of the person's picture. At my place of work, if I forget or lose my badge, I just tell them my name and badge ID and then just look it up on the computer. A picture of me shows up along with my name and badge ID and they issue me a temporary badge? I don't have to pay anything. I don't see why theses states couldn't do the same. In California when I vote, I just tell them my name and address and sign by the list where it is found. If I falsify that record there are penalties. Look, voter fraud is extremely rare. A Columbia University study confirms that (see page 5). I don't see the need to require someone to go out of their way to purchase birth or citizenship papers (which is essentially paying a tax) to vote.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by dnno1

They have record of the person's picture. At my place of work, if I forget or lose my badge, I just tell them my name and badge ID and then just look it up on the computer. A picture of me shows up along with my name and badge ID and they issue me a temporary badge? I don't have to pay anything. I don't see why theses states couldn't do the same. In California when I vote, I just tell them my name and address and sign by the list where it is found. If I falsify that record there are penalties. Look, voter fraud is extremely rare. A Columbia University study confirms that (see page 5). I don't see the need to require someone to go out of their way to purchase birth or citizenship papers (which is essentially paying a tax) to vote.

Who, the precinct? I've worked precincts before....we've never had that...we had a list of those that were registered voters and their addresses, we had the entire list so that we could tell people the correct place for them to vote if they came to us by mistake....

But, hey that would be a huge difference....but they would have had to had their picture taken at some point....and that seems to be one of the problems of some, getting to the place to get their picture made.

But, still Dnno you cannot disagree that people, NEED TO CARRY ID.....of some sort....

[chaseter]

Originally Posted by bell110

You prove you're a citizen when you register to vote.

People can't just walk in and vote. In my state, you have to go to the polling place you are assigned and tell them your name and address. Unless they know all three things, they aren't taking anybody's vote.

Once you are registered to vote in your district...you are good. All you do is mail in a card. Then you go up to the polls and tell them your name and address. It's not really hard to do voter fraud. Voter fraud isn't such a widespread thing that the government needs to spend billions fixing. All they have to do is require state or federal id. Nobody is going to go fake an id to vote so it's rather simple. If you can't afford id then have a small program for assistance. The End.

[TheInvisibleMan]

I live in the northeast, and they have always asked for some form of ID during voting, maybe its just part of the culture up here, but you need ID for everything

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by TheInvisibleMan

I live in the northeast, and they have always asked for some form of ID during voting, maybe its just part of the culture up here, but you need ID for everything

Here in Texas they do the same...

[MessiahDecoy123]

There are plenty of places where you don't need an ID to survive.

Especially if you look older and don't use a vehicle.

I can even go to places like WalMart or Grocery Stores and not have to show ID when I go through automated check out.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

There are plenty of places where you don't need an ID to survive.

Especially if you look older and don't use a vehicle.

I can even go to places like WalMart or Grocery Stores and not have to show ID when I go through automated check out.

LOL, I don't see many old people going through automated check out....and the old people I know.....VOTE, and here they have to show their ID, so they have it....

If the police need to see ID whether you are in your car or not....they will be suspicious if you don't have any....

You won't get into any school in Harris County without an ID....its not gonna happen.....if you pay with a credit card, and they ask for ID, and you don't have it....they can simply say no to you....they do not have to allow you to use that credit card.

Can you survive without an ID, in some places yes, you can but to think that an ID is not something that is important....is at best....naive.

[MessiahDecoy123]

I wonder what would happen if the "socialist" president demanded all Americans get a national ID card or lose certain rights like due process.

I wonder if Republicans would be cool with it.

I wonder...

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I wonder what would happen if the "socialist" president demanded all Americans get a national ID card or lose certain rights like due process.

I wonder if Republicans would be cool with it.

I wonder...

that doesn't even make sense....all you are doing is throwing around labels to try and make a point...and its not to make a point, it is to get a rise. meh...

[TheInvisibleMan]

not even a national ID card, if you don't drive a state issued ID is relatively cheap to get

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by TheInvisibleMan

not even a national ID card, if you don't drive a state issued ID is relatively cheap to get

And most of the states that are wanting to require an ID to vote will do it for free if you cannot afford it.....and the other states would probably follow...

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I wonder what would happen if the "socialist" president demanded all Americans get a national ID card or lose certain rights like due process.

I wonder if Republicans would be cool with it.

I wonder...

Of course not, because Obama did it. Both sides are hypocrites, that's nothing new.

That doesn't change the issue. People should have to prove that they are citizens before they can vote. Plain and simple. Republicans want it because they think it will help them in elections, but doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still doing the right thing.

And down here you need an ID for everything.

[dnno1]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Who, the precinct? I've worked precincts before....we've never had that...we had a list of those that were registered voters and their addresses, we had the entire list so that we could tell people the correct place for them to vote if they came to us by mistake....

But, hey that would be a huge difference....but they would have had to had their picture taken at some point....and that seems to be one of the problems of some, getting to the place to get their picture made.

But, still Dnno you cannot disagree that people, NEED TO CARRY ID.....of some sort....

Yes, at the precinct. The state DMV should have the person's picture on record so, if need be they could verify that without having to require a voter to produce one. I am not saying that all states do that or that there are states that do that, but they do have that potential. Carrying photo ID is a nice and smart thing to do, but it shouldn't be mandatory in all cases (I think the 5th Amendment protects that). In most states that have voter ID laws, you don't have to produce a picture ID to be identified as a voter.