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Old 07-23-2012, 02:39 PM   #301
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

...why would I be? lol..that's what the final shot of Bruce signifies.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:41 PM   #302
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I still think a better final shot would be Blake donning the suit and looking over the city.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:44 PM   #303
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I still think a better final shot would be Blake donning the suit and looking over the city.
NO!

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:47 PM   #304
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Yeah he's not Batman. If he's "Batman" then there's no character growth and all 3 movies are pointless.

The "protector" of Gotham is whatever Gotham needs him to be. Obviously Blake's not just going to put on the cowl and the ppl of Gotham think he's Batman. They already built a statue for him they know he's dead. What Blake will do is take up Batman's mantle. If he's actually Robin or who semantically he'll be isn't important in the context of the movie so Nolan leaves it open ended so you can pretend he's whoever you'd like him to be.
YES! This is right on.

The whole point of Blake is to show that Batman has changed Gotham. Before tough luck people like Joe Chill killed. But thanks to Batman, tough luck people like Blake are inspired to make a difference.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:47 PM   #305
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Batman was originally founded with a strong foundation of Zorro. Well Zorro has been many men over a very long time, so those thinking Robin would be Batman are not crazy.

I personally don;t like that, but understand their point of view.

Bruce repairing the Bat symbol tells me it was for him, and Bruce was just giving JGL a way to channel his anger and pain like he had.

Bruce is Batman, and will be there if he is ever needed.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:48 PM   #306
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

That being said, i really missed a scene in which he goes to his parents grave in which he finally says goodbye or something.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:50 PM   #307
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You're being sarcastic, I take it?
i hope you were, Bruce was alive and well, Alfred im sure found him with his mothers missing pearls

Bruce Wayne survived in TDKR

DeCap went into a coma in inception

Dont confuse yourself any further and chase your tail on this one

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:50 PM   #308
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...why would I be? lol..that's what the final shot of Bruce signifies.
I'm just a little confused because you seemed to agree with Rapunzel that Bruce was dead.

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I still think a better final shot would be Blake donning the suit and looking over the city.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to this shot as well - I really wanted to see Blake in the Batman suit - but upon reflection I think it's better that Nolan left it up to the audience to decide what happened next. This makes it different from every other superhero film ever made, where the last shot is the hero swooping off to new adventures (and lucrative sequels).

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:54 PM   #309
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Bruce repairing the Bat symbol tells me it was for him, and Bruce was just giving JGL a way to channel his anger and pain like he had.
Batman is not an anger management program. Why would Bruce give Blake a way to destroy himself, body and soul? It's just a repeating cycle.


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Bruce is Batman, and will be there if he is ever needed.
Bruce isn't Batman, and he won't be there if he's needed. Let the man have his life.

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Originally Posted by UaalaDan
I still think a better final shot would be Blake donning the suit and looking over the city.
This does however assume that Blake is Batman.

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Originally Posted by Axl Van Sixx
You're being sarcastic, I take it?
If anything, the "Bruce is dead" theory is more 'out there' than its alternative. I understand the idea that Alfred is imagining or wishing things in Italy, even if I don't personally agree, but it's pretty hard for a dead man to make special bequests to Gordon, Blake, and Gotham.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:55 PM   #310
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I'm just a little confused because you seemed to agree with Rapunzel that Bruce was dead.



I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to this shot as well - I really wanted to see Blake in the Batman suit - but upon reflection I think it's better that Nolan left it up to the audience to decide what happened next. This makes it different from every other superhero film ever made, where the last shot is the hero swooping off to new adventures (and lucrative sequels).
Yeah...I personally didn't like the ending either way. I hate the fact that Bruce simply gave up and started a new life in a new country.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:56 PM   #311
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Blake wearing the suit wouldn't have worked. Ambiguity is always better in an ending like that and more Nolan's style. There will never be a Nolan sequel with Blake or even Wayne for that matter. They could offer him $1 billion and I think (or like to think) he would pass. An amazing trilogy was made and now it is over.

In an imaginary world where the Nolan-verse continues, what happens? Blake probably does become Batman eventually (after learning how to fight and use the equiptment, meating Fox, etc). Bruce and Selena live anonomyously for a while, but eventually get pulled back to Gotham. Who knows. A million things can happen. That's why it's better to leave it to the imagination.

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Old 07-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #312
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Umm I never said Bruce was dead! In fact, I said he wasn't because of the autopilot. And the batsignal was clearly his doing.

What I said is Batman is dead!

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:01 PM   #313
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I believe in Christian Bale.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:04 PM   #314
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

One thing I've been wondering: If the nuke went off, how was the Bat recovered? Should the initial blast destroy it.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:06 PM   #315
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Yeah, I never said Bruce was dead lol. He's very alive, and happy, and that makes me happy. He's learned to let go and live life.

People who think he must always have Batman/Batman must always be in Gotham obv have no faith in Bruce ever being happy/Gotham being anything other than a worthless city. It would mean Ras was right, too. And Bane.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #316
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

I think some forget the true reason Bruce created Batman...because Gotham was so corrupted, they needed something to inspire them out of apathy, a symbol/legend that stood for good. In TDK, he and Gordon MISTAKENLY felt the citizens of Gotham couldn't be trusted with the truth. Rachel & Alfred realized that being Batman was ultimately a curse for Bruce or pretty much anyone else that dons the mask. Even Bane points it out to Bruce that for all his wealth and power, he ended up creating a lie. In TDKR, he realizes that he doesn't have to be a slave to this curse anymore, in the end, he did inspire the people of Gotham...they no longer needed him. He gave Blake the Batcave for the same reason Alfred got mad at him...to help Gotham, not take the curse upon himself.

Bruce rose above his pain, Gotham rose above it's apathy, the people no longer need a symbol.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #317
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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One thing I've been wondering: If the nuke went off, how was the Bat recovered? Should the initial blast destroy it.
It wasn't recovered.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #318
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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One thing I've been wondering: If the nuke went off, how was the Bat recovered? Should the initial blast destroy it.
We just went over this - there was more than one.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:09 PM   #319
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We just went over this - there was more than one.
It may actually even be on the very last page.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:20 PM   #320
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We just went over this - there was more than one.
Just saw it.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:23 PM   #321
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But I dont want Bruce to be happy. I want him to continue on as Batman. None of this carp that ANYone can be Batman. Thats bull****. Bruce Wayne IS Batman. And he should always BE Batman. Robin 'could" be Robin or Nightwing. But he should never be Batman.
Also shouldnt the whole city figure out that Bruce was Batman considering they both died at the same time? There is NO way that Bruce Wayne dying wouldnt be in the news. Then you couple that with Batman seeming to die saving the city and I would think 80-90% of the people would figure it out. I mean a beat cop figured it out just by looking at him.
Nolan painted himself into a corner by trying to show that Bruce was all worn out and beat up so he couldnt be Batman anymore. How? Why? He was only Batman for like a year and a half at most. Trying to say he was too old and too beat up to continue and then giving him a way to be happy at the end is what left alot of people with a bad taste in their mouth. Batman does not get old. He certainly does not wear out after only 3 incidences or major villians. And he should not be happy.
Dont get me wrong. Its a good movie. But I dont like the way he tried too hard to show that Bruce was just a man. Thats why Im sooo glad Nolan is done with Batman. What a depressing way to end what could have been a Great Batman...

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:23 PM   #322
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Umm I never said Bruce was dead! In fact, I said he wasn't because of the autopilot. And the batsignal was clearly his doing.

What I said is Batman is dead!
Well, I guess I came into the conversation too late to really understand what you were getting at. But I assumed Bruce was dead and Batman had made the ultimate sacrifice for Gotham, so that if it turns out that he did fake his own death after all, it would rob the end of that meaning - basically be like, as you suggested, Jesus Christ faking his own death.

I guess I'll have to watch the movie again and pay extra attention to the ending this time.

So just to be clear - NOBODY else thinks Bruce died at the end of the movie, and what Alfred saw at the cafe was a hallucination/visual expression of his desire to see Bruce still alive and happy?

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:28 PM   #323
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Lots of people died in Bane's takeover..so the "death" of Bruce wouldn't seem out of place.

It wasn't a vision, it was Bruce finally living a life.

"I don't want Bruce to be happy"...lol.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:34 PM   #324
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First time posting, but here is my thought.

The ending is exactly what it is. Bruce used a cock pit ejection system and set The Bat on an auto pilot course. The software patch log was his way of letting Fox know that he lived. The repair of the Bat Signal was his way of showing Gordon he lived. If Bruce had turely died, then Selina would have been at his funeral (with some dialogue about her starting over). Alfred was given the ultimate gift by seeing Bruce alive and happy, fulfilling Alfred's dream and faith that Bruce would move on and live his life without the pain.

As for Blake, it's simple. Blake is Batman, as Bruce wanted. Blake is to Batman as Henri Ducard was to Ra's al Ghul. Ducard was not the first Ra's, he was chosen by someone to take up the mantel of Ra's in the same way that Ducard tried to pass that mantel to Bruce. Instead, Bruce created another everlasting symbol, one that was incorruptible and represented good and hope. Bruce recognized something in Blake in much the same way Ducard did with Bruce and that Ducard's predecessor did in him, ect.

This film as well as Begins goes out of the way to reinforce the ideas that Batman/Ra's are immortal symbols taken up by an individual who is deemed worthy to carry on that role.

Besides, having JGL take up the role of Batman, in the same universe, with Nolan producing, allows them to create a Batman that could be in a Justice League film, do new films in the same universe and avoid the hard decisions that a reboot would bring..especially when it comes to the tough topic of The Joker.

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Old 07-23-2012, 03:36 PM   #325
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But I dont want Bruce to be happy. I want him to continue on as Batman. None of this carp that ANYone can be Batman. Thats bull****. Bruce Wayne IS Batman. And he should always BE Batman. Robin 'could" be Robin or Nightwing. But he should never be Batman.
Also shouldnt the whole city figure out that Bruce was Batman considering they both died at the same time? There is NO way that Bruce Wayne dying wouldnt be in the news. Then you couple that with Batman seeming to die saving the city and I would think 80-90% of the people would figure it out. I mean a beat cop figured it out just by looking at him.
Nolan painted himself into a corner by trying to show that Bruce was all worn out and beat up so he couldnt be Batman anymore. How? Why? He was only Batman for like a year and a half at most. Trying to say he was too old and too beat up to continue and then giving him a way to be happy at the end is what left alot of people with a bad taste in their mouth. Batman does not get old. He certainly does not wear out after only 3 incidences or major villians. And he should not be happy.
Dont get me wrong. Its a good movie. But I dont like the way he tried too hard to show that Bruce was just a man. Thats why Im sooo glad Nolan is done with Batman. What a depressing way to end what could have been a Great Batman...
I never said that Blake would be Batman. Further upthread I explained in some detail what I expect to happen to Blake.

Bruce Wayne would have been believed to have been just one of many victims of the reign of terror. The death toll in those last days would have been massive. There's nothing to suggest that it would become obvious to Gotham that he was one and the same.

Bruce was only Batman for a short time relative to the comics. Active as Batman for around maybe 2 years, give or take, but Batman for much longer. But he was also Batman for the entirety of the 8 year gap; Batman without a purpose or a reason to exist. Whatever was moping around Wayne Manor was not Bruce Wayne. Anyway, even during this apparently short active period as Batman, he got stabbed, shot, bludgeoned, beaten, took bad falls. These are just the physical ailments. Some, like the cartilage loss, are not things he will recover from. Batman's death allowed Bruce to live.

You think giving Bruce a way out is depressing? Well I think that trapping him in a prison of pain and anguish that can only lead to his self destruction is more depressing.

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