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Old 07-23-2012, 10:21 PM   #351
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

So my main questions:

1) Where the hell is Scarecrow? Did they just leave him running around Gotham again? That really pissed me off the first time they did that in Begins.
2) If they wanted to take over the city and destroy it why wouldn't they release The Joker? Couldn't they have at least explained him away with one line of exposition?

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Old 07-23-2012, 10:21 PM   #352
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^ I don't believe so. Bruce has moved on with his life, and would consequently have no reason to let Gordon know he was alive.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
What?

Of course it is. Fox knows Wayne's alive due to the autopilot being fixed, Gordon is surprised to find a completely new Bat signal just look at his reaction. Who else would have delivered that to him? Gordon meant a lot to Bruce so the least he could have done is letting a friend know that he's doing ok.

Alfred I'm sure knows the necklace is missing and remembers that Wayne told him in the beginning of the movie that he had installed a tracking device.

Blake gets the coordinates to the Batcave essentially giving him the opportunity to pursue the life of a "silent guardian" if he so chooses to.

All the important people in his immediate life were given big hints that he did in fact survive the explosion.

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Old 07-23-2012, 10:21 PM   #353
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

I like to think of it as Batman's revenge for Gordon doing the same to him by faking his death in TDK

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Old 07-23-2012, 10:24 PM   #354
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That shot of Gordon looking at the Batsignal was a sign for him that Bruce is alive, right?
Yeap. It seems like Gordon goes up there all the time hoping to one day see him again, hoping to hand him a file so he can help him look into it. We see it once in the movie when Blake went up there, we see it again when he's relieved to see the repaired signal. Looks around hoping to see him again.

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Old 07-23-2012, 10:25 PM   #355
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Bruce had moved on; why would he want Gordon to know he was alive? It's not like the situation with him and Alfred where he had a reason to orchestrate the cafe scene in order to not only show Alfred that he was alive, but also that he was happy. Any relationship Bruce had with Gordon ended the moment he faked his death and left Gotham.

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Old 07-23-2012, 10:47 PM   #356
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

He wanted to know he was alive because he is his friend. Period. And he also fixed the Bat-Signal because there's a new Batman to protect Gotham whenever it needs to be = Blake.

When I first saw it, I really thought it was an ambiguous Inception like ending but It's not. He is alive, gave up being Batman forever to start a new life with Selina with a new identity and all. Blake is now the new guardian of Gotham. You can even see his baptism by the Bats when he enters the cave.

The whole thing was to show that Batman is an ideal, anyone can be behind the mask if he has the will to do what is right. You might not agree with this ending or this choice but this is clearly what Nolan put in the movie.

Now if Blake is going to be Batman or Batman Beyond, it doesn't matter. He's the city protector now.


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Old 07-23-2012, 10:56 PM   #357
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Originally Posted by craigdbfan View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
What?

Of course it is. Fox knows Wayne's alive due to the autopilot being fixed, Gordon is surprised to find a completely new Bat signal just look at his reaction. Who else would have delivered that to him? Gordon meant a lot to Bruce so the least he could have done is letting a friend know that he's doing ok.

Alfred I'm sure knows the necklace is missing and remembers that Wayne told him in the beginning of the movie that he had installed a tracking device.

Blake gets the coordinates to the Batcave essentially giving him the opportunity to pursue the life of a "silent guardian" if he so chooses to.

All the important people in his immediate life were given big hints that he did in fact survive the explosion.
Yup. Although I disagree about one thing.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The pearl necklace.

I don't think it has anything to do with the tracking and Alfred. I think that necklace was there to symbolize that Bruce has moved on from his parents' death and in a way, it's a romantic gesture to Selina considering that the necklace was instrumental in how their paths crossed in the first place.

I think Bruce went to cafe that Alfred has been telling him about and that was his way of letting him know that he's alive and has moved on.


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Yeap. It seems like Gordon goes up there all the time hoping to one day see him again, hoping to hand him a file so he can help him look into it. We see it once in the movie when Blake went up there, we see it again when he's relieved to see the repaired signal. Looks around hoping to see him again.
Nice. I really like that interpretation. This is what I'd like to believe as well.

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I like to think of it as Batman's revenge for Gordon doing the same to him by faking his death in TDK

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Old 07-23-2012, 11:46 PM   #358
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Yup. Although I disagree about one thing.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The pearl necklace.

I don't think it has anything to do with the tracking and Alfred. I think that necklace was there to symbolize that Bruce has moved on from his parents' death and in a way, it's a romantic gesture to Selina considering that the necklace was instrumental in how their paths crossed in the first place.

I think Bruce went to cafe that Alfred has been telling him about and that was his way of letting him know that he's alive and has moved on.


Nice. I really like that interpretation. This is what I'd like to believe as well.
I think you're actually right about the Alfred part. Complete agreement with you guys about Wayne delivering the Bat signal to Gordon. I thought it was made pretty clear.

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Old 07-24-2012, 12:18 AM   #359
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That shot of Gordon looking at the Batsignal was a sign for him that Bruce is alive, right?
Yes it is. Bruce fixed it. It goes along with how Gotham City will still have a protector since John Blake was given coordinates to the Bat Cave and it's resources. We never see the Bat suit rise up but that's that.

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Old 07-24-2012, 01:49 AM   #360
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

For the member who said the last shot of Batman we see is as he is rising above the building, we actually see Batman in The Bat 5 seconds before the blast goes off. He is staring directly into the screen, in what appears to be a moment of serenity. We're obviously meant to believe he is coming to terms with his own death, when in reality he is coming to terms with his death as Batman. That's the way I looked at it, at least.

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Old 07-24-2012, 05:11 AM   #361
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Bruce had moved on; why would he want Gordon to know he was alive?
What?....Batman himself called Gordon a hero, his hero, because of the coat gesture in Begins. Gordon was clearly upset at the statue unveiling that he had died. The fixing of the signal was a sign to Gordon that he was still alive.

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Old 07-24-2012, 06:26 AM   #362
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Total Film's thoughts on the ending, from their "50 best bits in TDKR" article. Interesting

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If you've somehow landed on this page by accident, the following is a massive spoiler. Please don't read on if you haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises.
Brilliantly, beautifully, Christopher Nolan has given each member of the army of fans who have followed his Batman saga their own individual perfect ending.
That's because everyone is able to interpret it in their own way.
The debate amongst fans as to whether Alfred truly saw Bruce sitting in that cafe in Italy, or whether it was his imagination, has already begun.
The believers point to the presence of Selina Kyle, and ask why Alfred would imagine her there when he had so little interaction with her. The non-believers point out that Selina's spent the entire film in black, and the blue linen outfit means she's clearly a construction.
The believers point out the auto-pilot foreshadowing and resolution. That silences the non-believers momentarily, before they argue that the film is full of hallucinations, both definite - Ra's al Ghul in the prison cell - and debatable - the bats flying out of the pit walls - so why wouldn't it end on one?
Nolan's 'choose your own' approach to film finales was first seen in Inception, but here it provides even greater catharsis.
Some people wish the film had cut to black on Alfred's expression, to heighten the mystery. We're glad it didn't, because as far as we're concerned, Bruce Wayne is alive.
The reason Selina is there is she was associated with the Clean Slate device, a device that Carmine Falcone's 'Prince Of Gotham' would definitely need to begin again. She's wearing the linen outfit because black would be a bit hot in the Mediterranean climate. And more than that, the costume change is symbolic of her desire to leave her past behind.
As for the hallucinations, they were experienced by one character - Bruce. And they happened when he was at his lowest point, both physically and mentally. Alfred is grieving, but a man who still has enough hope to make his yearly trip to Italy is not a man broken enough to experience visions. Especially not one who has operated as the voice of sanity throughout the trilogy.
But that's just our opinion, whichever way you look at it, Nolan has given this saga a happy ending. We couldn't have asked for more, really.

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Old 07-24-2012, 07:22 AM   #363
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

I never thought the bats were anything but real lol. Plus, this isn't Inception. His Ras vision was was brought about by the great pain..physically and mentally..that he was suffering.

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Old 07-24-2012, 10:55 AM   #364
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Also for the people saying that Blake could just train is basically saying that any member of the league of shadows could have been Batman. Bruce is an exceptionally talented and driven human who stands above all other men, which is why he is so successful as Batman. Not anyone should be able to do that or it cheapens everything.
Completely wrong. From BB, Batman distinguishes himself from the LOS because he's more about bringing criminals to justice, not executing them. Bruce could train Blake to do the same. Bruce sees Blake as a man that cannot be corrupted, which was one of Batman's key traits until he killed Harvey Dent and took the wrap for his murders

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:03 AM   #365
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THe more I think about the trilogy and especially the events in tdkr, I realize the symbolism is all there for anyone willing to look a bit closer. As for the ending, selina's blue dress very very closely resembles the blue flower from begins where he has to carry it to the top of the mountain and the leagues headquarters..I believe its a symbol of hope renewed and love. Although I can also see very clearly where those who feel Bruce wayne died is coming from. Either way you look at it its a cathartic, positive ending, as Bruce is finally at peace.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:19 AM   #366
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just saw it for a 4th time. still epic !!!

and just to clear up, incase i missed it. but yes:

1) selena IS WEARING the pearl necklace at end of the movie. watching again in the full 15/70 imax theatre, I just tried to focus on the brief shot of her neck. the sunlight and her white skin distract a bit, but it is the then back part, the smaller pears of the necklace.

2) lucious fox does hold on to the ladder as flood is happening, then there is a shot of him continuing to come out.

3) bunch of clues that bruce wants blake to takeover. tells him about the "mask reasoning". shows him how to throw bat bomb. when blake gives bruce a ride, he talks about how he wants batman to continuing being a symbol, whether he lives or dies.

4) bruce wayne is dead. batman lives on. blake is meant to be new batman. gordon is given new batsignal so as to call upon him when need be. blake will train as long as he needs, there is no due date for it.

5) bruce and selena have fresh starts. to go on with their lives and be happy. whether they stay together as couple, or just friends. doesn't matter.

6) gotham was getting supplies throughout the occupation, that is what bane's 2nd in command negotiated with on the first day of the takeover with that marine guy on bridge.

7) special forces guys then sneak in with a food truck. so it is reasonable to assume that you can GET INTO gotham. you just can't GET OUT. so bruce coming back is not so far fetched.

8) i don't think bane was ever dumbed down in the movie. he was never a MASTER GENUIS. he was a glorified guard dog, for TALIA. it makes sense. He was not the planner, she was. he was only there to carry out her scheme so she could remain in the shadows. He was just the muscle, the mercenary. So when she reveals herself, it doesn't really bring down his character. it just clarifies it. His only care, his only weakness is her. And as he's recovering from the few moments without the mask, after batman knocked it up. You can see in his eyes that he just cares about her, and is in awe of her. he's even crying out of his right eye. quiet and peaceful, because he's with her.

just thoughts.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:23 AM   #367
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...Plus, Bane was never kicked out of league of shadows because of his RADICAL THINKING. he was kicked out because of Ras AL Ghul's guilty conscious over the loss of his wife. Bane reminded him of that prison hell she died in. the sight of Bane disgusted him. Talia took pity on Bane, her protector, and sided with him, could not forgive her father for that. Until batman killed Ras, and she wanted to avenge his death. But all of them, Ras, Talia, and Bane all wanted to destory Gotham. Whether through a nuclear bomb, or the people killing each other with that flower toxin from Batman Begins.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:27 AM   #368
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

As said before - Batman will remain dead because his final act (saving the city and dying for it) has made him a legend. Blake will be his own thing. Or, really, there was no need for Batman, or Bruce, to fake his death.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:33 AM   #369
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If you're talking about Bruce using the Batsignal to let Gordon know that he'd passed on the mantle of Batman, I can agree with you, but I don't see how a new Batsignal would let Gordon know that the man behind Batman's mask - Bruce himself - was still alive. If Bruce wanted Gordon to know that he - Bruce - was alive, there are better ways he could've done it.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:47 AM   #370
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Gordon made the original Bat-signal for Bruce. Bruce remade it for Gordon.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:51 AM   #371
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Im so happy we didn't end up with Batman on a rooftop as the final shot, people saying that over the past year was one of the main things that bug me.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:51 AM   #372
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if you look carefully next to it is a smaller spotlight with some sort of tiny bird symbol

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:55 AM   #373
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Gordon never interacted with Bruce as Bruce, so a Batsignal being used by Bruce to tell Gordon that he was alive makes no sense.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:56 AM   #374
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Yeah cos Gordon isn't that smart or anything

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:57 AM   #375
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Gordon never interacted with Bruce as Bruce, so a Batsignal being used by Bruce to tell Gordon that he was alive makes no sense.
Batman and Gordon was pretty much partners, so Gordon knowing Batman is Bruce doesn't change anything, he cares about him just the same and would be glad to know his okay.

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