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Old 07-22-2012, 06:56 PM   #151
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Originally Posted by ABleedingCorpse View Post
Watch it in motion, and look to the left of her neck..you'll notice the necklace. As I said, it's very hard to see the outline/texture of it due to the lighting, her skin tone and the white pearl, but she is indeed wearing the necklace.
or we can wait until the Blueray or Reg DVD hit the market, then show the fact to those who said there are no pearl necklace on Selina's neck when she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the banks of XXXX river near Florence

Anyone who said there are no pearl necklace on Selina's neck when she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the banks of XXXX river near Florence and want to make a bet with money ----you are welcome


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Old 07-22-2012, 07:03 PM   #152
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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or we can wait until the Blueray or Reg DVD hit the market, then show the fact to those who said there are no pearl necklace on Slina's neck when she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the banks of XXXX river near Florence

Anyone who said there are no pearl necklace on Slina's neck when she and Bruce were sitting in that cafe on the banks of XXXX river near Florence and want to make a bet with money ----you are welcome
I can understand why people would think she isn't because it really doesn't appear she is wearing it...but she is indeed wearing the necklace. Why would they make a point of letting us know it's missing again and then show her without it? It's bad filmmaking if that were the case. Regardless of weither it makes sense for her to be wearing it, it's storytelling and making the image clear to the audience or give a hint of Bruce's fate before the big reveal.

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:08 PM   #153
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

The ending is not confusing in terms of watching the images on screen and putting them together, rather the ending is confusing because it is unclear what Nolan is trying to say with the end. Ambiguity is one thing, leaving a million options dangling out there is another.

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:15 PM   #154
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Is there no one who prefers the ending that Batman died and that Alfred is just hallucinating? That seems more Mementoish to me.

I'm going to see the movie again to be sure.

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:18 PM   #155
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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The ending is not confusing in terms of watching the images on screen and putting them together, rather the ending is confusing because it is unclear what Nolan is trying to say with the end. Ambiguity is one thing, leaving a million options dangling out there is another.
I think it's clear if you watched the series as a whole what Nolan is trying to say and present. Bruce had a mission to do good, to inspire people and make things safer for the people of Gotham. In TDK, Bruce started to think and accept the idea of a normal life...and to have that means that someone else would have to continue to inspire others. That would have been Dent in TDK...but we know how that played out. In TDKR, he's lost until Blake comes to him...it's then that Bruce see's a pure and honest person. Blake inspired Bruce to return as Batman and that was all he needed to see to understand that there is still a chance..that hope is alive..to continue to spread hope to the city...through others.

It's only confusing if you don't understand the underlining goal Bruce has in the whole series.

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:19 PM   #156
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Yes, the ending was very clear to me.

I still can't figure out why (most) people are so confused?

Batman "died" as a hero, saving Gotham City from a nuclear bomb. Bruce Wayne is happy w/ Selina Kyle in Italy. Alfred sees them there at the cafe', and waves. John Blake finds the Bat Cave.

End of story.
Which makes Batman one of the few who died a hero, and lived long enough to see himself become the villain.

KBZ

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:24 PM   #157
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

The necklace part is something I definitely overlooked, after 3 viewings at that.

Something else I noticed was the subtle way Batman alludes to the ending when he gives Blake the "Bat-grenade?" and tells him how long to wait before throwing it. Obviously it's not enough to blow a hole in the barricade for the cops to escape, but just a small lesson for Blake on how not to blow yourself up with the thing. On further viewings this movie really does get a lot better, at least for me.

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:25 PM   #158
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The necklace part is something I definitely overlooked, after 3 viewings at that.

Something else I noticed was the subtle way Batman alludes to the ending when he gives Blake the "Bat-grenade?" and tells him how long to wait before throwing it. Obviously it's not enough to blow a hole in the barricade for the cops to escape, but just a small lesson for Blake on how not to blow yourself up with the thing. On further viewings this movie really does get a lot better, at least for me.
Agreed.

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:29 PM   #159
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Everything is pretty much how I took the ending, except for the necklace part. I don't think Alfred would've tracked it. Instead I think it was just Bruce knowing Alfred would've been there given he went there every summer during Bruce's seven year exile prior to Begins.
Yeah, I don't think Alfred tracked it either. I've seen the film three times now, and noticed upon my most recent viewing that Alfred's description of the Cafe and it's location is specific enough that Bruce could've gone there on purpose, hoping Alfred would see him.

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:32 PM   #160
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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I think it's clear if you watched the series as a whole what Nolan is trying to say and present. Bruce had a mission to do good, to inspire people and make things safer for the people of Gotham. In TDK, Bruce started to think and accept the idea of a normal life...and to have that means that someone else would have to continue to inspire others. That would have been Dent in TDK...but we know how that played out. In TDKR, he's lost until Blake comes to him...it's then that Bruce see's a pure and honest person. Blake inspired Bruce to return as Batman and that was all he needed to see to understand that there is still a chance..that hope is alive..to continue to spread hope to the city...through others.

It's only confusing if you don't understand the underlining goal Bruce has in the whole series.
I think that's the problem, people are equating the comic Batman to Nolan's interpretation, and it's not really the same. Nolan's Bruce Wayne has always looked at his mission as a temporary thing, it wasn't until Dent died that he got lost and confused about going on as Batman. Before then, he was ready to quit numerous times. Had Dent not stepped forward, he would've gave himself up at that press conference.

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:34 PM   #161
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Autopilot makes sense. I just assumed he ejected (similar to Angels & Demons the book when the bomb is taken up into the sky to detonate to save the city) and it went on autopilot anyway.

The ending is such a tease though. I assume there won't be any more movies with these characters, but Nolan did say he would like to watch a Hathaway/Catwoman spin-off. I definitely wanted to see more of her, and now I want to see more of "Robin" also.

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Old 07-22-2012, 09:37 PM   #162
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

I personally love that they showed Bruce. I wanted to see him happy and alive after all the **** that he's been through. Plus, it's a good closure for Selina too. I think I would be so frustrated if they didn't show him and there would be endless debates on whether he's alive or not. I mean, even now that they showed him, there are still doubts so it could've been worse.

I don't think the pearls were meant for Alfred to track but rather just a symbol of Bruce moving on (his mother's pearls are now not just stuck at some safe) and adds an extra touch to his relationship with Seilna. In a way, Selina stealing those pearls (even if she's really only after the fingerprints) was a catalyst for some of the realizations that Bruce had in this movie.

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Old 07-22-2012, 10:59 PM   #163
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

But does Blake really become Batman's successor ?

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:21 PM   #164
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Is there no one who prefers the ending that Batman died and that Alfred is just hallucinating? That seems more Mementoish to me.

I'm going to see the movie again to be sure.
Upon second viewing, I recant this...it seems very deliberate Nolan wants us to believe he's alive. I think I was too caught up in his death and reminder that this was a Nolan movie.

The movie was better on second viewing...I thought the middle section was a bit slow on first but it seemed better pace on repeat viewing. The action seemed shorter on second viewing, though.

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:28 PM   #165
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Upon second viewing, I recant this...it seems very deliberate Nolan wants us to believe he's alive. I think I was too caught up in his death and reminder that this was a Nolan movie.

The movie was better on second viewing...I thought the middle section was a bit slow on first but it seemed better pace on repeat viewing. The action seemed shorter on second viewing, though.
I think it wasnt a dream


I think Alfred faked his crying at the end to hide the fact that Bruce is still alive

It think it was a nod to the Dark Knight Returns, when Superman finds out he is not dead during the funeral

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:37 PM   #166
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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I think it wasnt a dream


I think Alfred faked his crying at the end to hide the fact that Bruce is still alive

It think it was a nod to the Dark Knight Returns, when Superman finds out he is not dead during the funeral
Nobody was watching Alfred cry but us.

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:38 PM   #167
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Nobody was watching Alfred cry but us.
haha it looked legit

but i dont care

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:40 PM   #168
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

Or he didn't know Bruce was alive....

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:42 PM   #169
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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But does Blake really become Batman's successor ?

Obviously, yes.

Bruce even left a new Bat Signal for Gordon...

BAT SIGNAL.

Not really open to interpretation. How is there even a question about the ending?

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:45 PM   #170
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Obviously, yes.

Bruce even left a new Bat Signal for Gordon...

BAT SIGNAL.

Not really open to interpretation. How is there even a question about the ending?
Because they made a point of mentioning that John Blake was Robin. That's how. I interpreted it as Batman left ROBIN in charge...... For now.

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Old 07-23-2012, 12:10 AM   #171
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Obviously, yes.

Bruce even left a new Bat Signal for Gordon...

BAT SIGNAL.

Not really open to interpretation. How is there even a question about the ending?
The fact that Bruce left/replaced the Batsignal has nothing to do with who John Blake will become.

All it does it show Gordon that Bruce is alive out there -- somewhere and it's symbolic in Gotham's faith being restored, properly and is symbolic of Gordon being able to have a clean slate and fresh start after protecting Gotham under a lie for the last 8 years.

John Blake can become Robin, Red-Robin, Nightwing or Batman... That much is really up to interpretation. Hell, he can just become a regular, noble citizen.

Who John Blake will become is really the only thing that is left up to interpretation in the end of the film... The rest, like, how Bruce survived, how Blake found the Batcave, where the new signal came from, where are the pearls and how did Alfred find Bruce are all really dumb and pointless questions as they were ALL answers IN the film itself.

I swear a lot of people DID not pay attention to or actively watch the film. This isn't addressed to you -- this is just a not to the forum/thread on the whole. There are a ton of dumb questions coming in and MOST of them were answered in the film -- MOST of them explicitly stated, in fact.


People saying that Alfred halucenated seeing Bruce? Bruce is really dead? That Alfred 'faked crying at the funeral' so people would think Bruce was truly dead as a nod to The Dark Knight Returns? Are you kidding me with this nonsense? Some of these theories are the dumbest things I have ever heard. The ending was the ending. It was laid out explicitly.

-Alfred and all of Gotham believes Batman/Bruce Wayne died.
-Wayne Manor is given to the orphanage/Gotham City.
-Fox is told by his engineers that Bruce Wayne fixed the auto pilot six months ago -- letting Fox know that Bruce probably survived the explosion. He was able to eject early, and have the auto pilot take the Bat out to see.
-Gordon finds the new batsignal, left by Wayne, as a symbol of the fresh start that Gordon has with Gotham City.
-John Blake receives the coordinates, a GPS, and the materials to find the BatCave in a bag left to him in Bruce's will.
-Alfred continues to visit the same cafe he told Bruce about in the beginning of the film in the hopes that he may still see him. Bruce retires in that specific area because he knows that Alfred will eventually be there and he wants to fulfill the wish of his oldest friend. So Bruce goes to this cafe often so that he will one-day run into Alfred so that Alfred knows he is alive and that he has moved on and has a normal life. Bruce even has the pearls with the tracking device that Alfred could have followed to find him.

That's the ending. It's simple -- but damn near perfect. There is VERY little interpretation required. There was no "it's all a dream." That is about as silly as you can get.

But the fate of WHO "Robin" Blake will become is the only thing that can only be truly guessed at...

-R


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Old 07-23-2012, 12:11 AM   #172
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

I thought the Bat-Signal was more for letting Gordon know he was still alive, not so much for his successor, because honestly...Gotham no longer needs Batman.

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Old 07-23-2012, 12:12 AM   #173
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I`m glad this universe is over. It's time for something closer to the comics and another perspective.

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Old 07-23-2012, 12:34 AM   #174
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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Or he didn't know Bruce was alive....
Well in the comics, there is a story where we learn that Alfred used to do acting back in England and was in a troupe

So he may have faked the crying

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Old 07-23-2012, 12:40 AM   #175
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Default Re: Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

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The fact that Bruce left/replaced the Batsignal has nothing to do with who John Blake will become.

All it does it show Gordon that Bruce is alive out there -- somewhere and it's symbolic in Gotham's faith being restored, properly and is symbolic of Gordon being able to have a clean slate and fresh start after protecting Gotham under a lie for the last 8 years.

John Blake can become Robin, Red-Robin, Nightwing or Batman... That much is really up to interpretation. Hell, he can just become a regular, noble citizen.

Who John Blake will become is really the only thing that is left up to interpretation in the end of the film... The rest, like, how Bruce survived, how Blake found the Batcave, where the new signal came from, where are the pearls and how did Alfred find Bruce are all really dumb and pointless questions as they were ALL answers IN the film itself.

I swear a lot of people DID not pay attention to or actively watch the film. This isn't addressed to you -- this is just a not to the forum/thread on the whole. There are a ton of dumb questions coming in and MOST of them were answered in the film -- MOST of them explicitly stated, in fact.


People saying that Alfred halucenated seeing Bruce? Bruce is really dead? That Alfred 'faked crying at the funeral' so people would think Bruce was truly dead as a nod to The Dark Knight Returns? Are you kidding me with this nonsense? Some of these theories are the dumbest things I have ever heard. The ending was the ending. It was laid out explicitly.

-Alfred and all of Gotham believes Batman/Bruce Wayne died.
-Wayne Manor is given to the orphanage/Gotham City.
-Fox is told by his engineers that Bruce Wayne fixed the auto pilot six months ago -- letting Fox know that Bruce probably survived the explosion. He was able to eject early, and have the auto pilot take the Bat out to see.
-Gordon finds the new batsignal, left by Wayne, as a symbol of the fresh start that Gordon has with Gotham City.
-John Blake receives the coordinates, a GPS, and the materials to find the BatCave in a bag left to him in Bruce's will.
-Alfred continues to visit the same cafe he told Bruce about in the beginning of the film in the hopes that he may still see him. Bruce retires in that specific area because he knows that Alfred will eventually be there and he wants to fulfill the wish of his oldest friend. So Bruce goes to this cafe often so that he will one-day run into Alfred so that Alfred knows he is alive and that he has moved on and has a normal life. Bruce even has the pearls with the tracking device that Alfred could have followed to find him.

That's the ending. It's simple -- but damn near perfect. There is VERY little interpretation required. There was no "it's all a dream." That is about as silly as you can get.

But the fate of WHO "Robin" Blake will become is the only thing that can only be truly guessed at...

-R
Great post. I agree with everything.

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