Anyone else fear 'Man of Steel' is the final chance for success in the film industry?

[BH/HHH]

Originally Posted by CaramelPopcorn

Superman 2 was awful. I don't know how anyone really liked it. It had an opening scene that was so corny I couldn't believe it, Superman loses his powers for just about the entire movie, and from there was just constant campy fighting (Zod blowing his breath for about 15 minutes so we can see civilians fall over, one remaining on the telephone whilst laughing). Then the movie just ends with him carrying the American flag.

One of the most innacurate comments about Superman II ever. He has his powers all the way up to the fortress when he asks his mother or father (depending on which version you watch) and then he loses them and then again depending on which version doesn't have them while they have sex, and gets them back after the diner scene so I'd say Donner Cut he doesn't have them for like half hour if that or Lester cut slightly longer its not even half the film.

[Deathlok]

My only fear is that if this film tanks, then I won't be alive by the time they make another one.

[BH/HHH]

If it tanks Superman's gonna show up in a JL movie a few years anyway so he won't be gone for long. Infact I think if MOS tanks its guaranteed they'l do JL whereas right now I can see it getting postponed.

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

Originally Posted by KalMart

Ah, so you prefer Superman Without Good Story: The So-Called Movie. Nice.

Gus Gorman loves you.

Superman 2 did not have a good story at all.

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by CaramelPopcorn

Superman 2 did not have a good story at all.

It was still better than #3's, though.

[Lead Cenobite]

Originally Posted by CaramelPopcorn

Superman 3 was better than Superman 2 and better than Superman 4.

Superman 2 was awful. I don't know how anyone really liked it. It had an opening scene that was so corny I couldn't believe it, Superman loses his powers for just about the entire movie, and from there was just constant campy fighting (Zod blowing his breath for about 15 minutes so we can see civilians fall over, one remaining on the telephone whilst laughing). Then the movie just ends with him carrying the American flag.

At least Superman 3 had an interesting angle with going back to Smallville, didn't have Lex Luthor bumbling about, had some interesting enemies and a brilliant junkyard fight.

Superman 4 was terrible. I won't even discuss it.

I prefer a movie where a powerless Superman is the main character over one where he's taking a backseat to a comedian.

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite

I prefer a movie where a powerless Superman is the main character over one where he's taking a backseat to a comedian.

Worked for TDK.

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite

I prefer a movie where a powerless Superman is the main character over one where he's taking a backseat to a comedian.

A comedian with some actual screen personality and a character arc, over one-dimensional, boring old-man General Zod?

"I am General Zod. I hate Superman and can only hate Superman and behave in ways that hate Superman! Now listen to me say 'Kneel!' a lot."

I was never sure why people liked him. He was dressed like The Artist Formerly Known As Prince and did absolutely nothing to elevate the character above other boring tropes of his kind like "Nuclear Man" and "Abomination." He was just a character with Superman's powers, but evil. Nothing interesting happens around him at all, or for the whole movie.

[KalMart]

Of course, Superman 2 has a lot of issues...but whatever they are, and despite how some Superman fans feel about the concept of giving up his powers, it still doesn't make the farcical romp that was Superman 3 a better film.

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

Superman 3 had its share of problems as well, but I'd watch Superman 3 again long before I'd subject myself to Superman 2 or 4.

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by CaramelPopcorn

Superman 3 had its share of problems as well, but I'd watch Superman 3 again long before I'd subject myself to Superman 2 or 4.

Which is fine...everyone has their preferences for whatever reason. But in so many objective ways beyond personal fandom or character preference, #3 is a vastly worse piece of cinema than #2.

[Coca Cola Duracell Franklin.]

In what ways are those? Do you like the opening scene where all that stupid crap is going on?

Is the breathtaking "Hand-drawn elevator in space" sequence what grips you?

The stupid and out-of-place pop culture references?

What are these "objective ways?"

And don't give me a cop-out answer like "cinematography," because when Superman is just hanging out in the Fortress of Solitude throwing cellophane S shields at people and inexplicably duplicating himself, I don't really care how the scene is visually captured because it's a completely crappy scene anyway.

Superman 2 was god-awful. I rewatched all four movies a month ago and literally found it to be the hardest to watch of the four. It was just barely edged out by Superman 4, which got points for being so bad it was good, as well as a very earnest attempt from Reeve in most scenes.

[McLarenMP4]

Originally Posted by CaramelPopcorn

In what ways are those? Do you like the opening scene where all that stupid crap is going on?

Is the breathtaking "Hand-drawn elevator in space" sequence what grips you?

The stupid and out-of-place pop culture references?

What are these "objective ways?"

And don't give me a cop-out answer like "cinematography," because when Superman is just hanging out in the Fortress of Solitude throwing cellophane S shields at people and inexplicably duplicating himself, I don't really care how the scene is visually captured because it's a completely crappy scene anyway.

Superman 2 was god-awful. I rewatched all four movies a month ago and literally found it to be the hardest to watch of the four. It was just barely edged out by Superman 4, which got points for being so bad it was good, as well as a very earnest attempt from Reeve in most scenes.

I agree with you I think #2 is the worst of all of them and #3 wasn't as bad as people make it out to be.
The kryptonian costumes were terrible and looked like they had been made out of bin liners, Zod wasn't intimidating physically at all, the fight sequences were lame and Lois got incredibly annoying.
As far as cinematography goes #2 is also the worst, the scenes in metropolis for the fight looked like models and the scene when zod & co are blowing people down the street, my god I cringe everytime I think about it, horrible.

I really don't get the hate for #3 either, yes it maybe gave more screentime to Richard Pryor but I thought the Superman scenes in it were excellent and are some of my favourite Superman scenes on film. I loved seeing the angry pissed off Supes, the duality fight of good vs evil was excellently acted by Chris, you could really feel that it was a fight to the death. It was also helped by the fact that Annette O'Toole was way hotter than Lois.

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by CaramelPopcorn

In what ways are those? Do you like the opening scene where all that stupid crap is going on?

Is the breathtaking "Hand-drawn elevator in space" sequence what grips you?

The stupid and out-of-place pop culture references?

What are these "objective ways?"

And don't give me a cop-out answer like "cinematography," because when Superman is just hanging out in the Fortress of Solitude throwing cellophane S shields at people and inexplicably duplicating himself, I don't really care how the scene is visually captured because it's a completely crappy scene anyway.

Superman 2 was god-awful. I rewatched all four movies a month ago and literally found it to be the hardest to watch of the four. It was just barely edged out by Superman 4, which got points for being so bad it was good, as well as a very earnest attempt from Reeve in most scenes.

It's a tighter and more mature story with better acting, for starters. You can wax eloquent as to how much you hate Superman 2 until the cows come home, but the fact remains that #3 is still worse....even though there's nothing wrong with someone liking it better for whatever reasons.

[MOS2013]

Superman II is a great film.

Anyone who thinks IV is better than II is high off their ass.

[The Guard]

What the heck is Superman 2?

I know of a Superman II, but not this Superman 2...

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by KalMart

Of course, Superman 2 has a lot of issues...but whatever they are, and despite how some Superman fans feel about the concept of giving up his powers, it still doesn't make the farcical romp that was Superman 3 a better film.

That and it was perhaps the first time in cinematic history where we had super powered individuals going at it in the streets on a large scale (as viewed by the stands back then).

[MOS2013]

SII has many moments that give me goosebumps

His shirt rip in the alley as he goes to Paris.

The moment where he sees Zod with the president when hes at the diner.

The rescue of the mother and child when he catches the spire from the Empire state building, the little smile and nod he gives the woman is classic Reeve.

Then when he throws General Zod into the coke sign, that is unbelievably cool and incredibly well done for its time, I don't care what anyone says.

[UaalaDan]

I think the only truly good movie is Superman the movie. The rest sucks. I actually managed to hate the Donner Cut of SII even more than Lester's. At least we didnt get a stupid turning back time moment again...Moreover, the "editing" Michael Tau did is amateur at best. Check Selutron's work on the net for a much better job. And that was done by a fan...

With that being said, all the past Superman movies are just WAY too campy to be considered serious by today's standards. The first hour of STM is Oscar worthy but things go downhill the minute we are introduced to Otis and Lex Luthor.

I really can't understand how somebody can actually like that BS version of Luthor who is like Dr Evil from the Austin Powers movies.

Superman was in a clear need for a movie revamp and that was made even more clearer by the disappointing SR. Thank god for MOS. Superman finally deserves a triumphant return to the big screen.

[herolee10]

My only regret is that we'll never get a chance to see on what the entire film would have been like if richard donner had been allowed to finish the sequel. I get that the "Richard Donner Cut" is meant to represent on "what could have been..." but it's still a poor example on what I think would have been "The Dark Knight' to his Superman films.

Based on what I saw in his Lethal Weapon films, along with what I read from the original screenplay for Superman II and how we had some of his shots from the Metropolis battle shown in the Richard donner Cut dvd, I think his Metropolis battle would have been so much more epic.

[UaalaDan]

I still think his original ideas are awful so Im glad that movie was never finished. The Donner cut or even his original screenplay cemented that for me.

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by herolee10

My only regret is that we'll never get a chance to see on what the entire film would have been like if richard donner had been allowed to finish the sequel. I get that the "Richard Donner Cut" is meant to represent on "what could have been..." but it's still a poor example on what I think would have been "The Dark Knight' to his Superman films.

Based on what I saw in his Lethal Weapon films, along with what I read from the original screenplay for Superman II and how we had some of his shots from the Metropolis battle shown in the Richard donner Cut dvd, I think his Metropolis battle would have been so much more epic.

The 'Donner Cut' of Supes II that we saw actually made me glad that he didn't get to finish it, and I think put Lester in a much better light than he was held in before, considering the mess he had to come in and at least clean up.

[MOS2013]

Originally Posted by UaalaDan

I think the only truly good movie is Superman the movie. The rest sucks. I actually managed to hate the Donner Cut of SII even more than Lester's. At least we didnt get a stupid turning back time moment again...Moreover, the "editing" Michael Tau did is amateur at best. Check Selutron's work on the net for a much better job. And that was done by a fan...

With that being said, all the past Superman movies are just WAY too campy to be considered serious by today's standards. The first hour of STM is Oscar worthy but things go downhill the minute we are introduced to Otis and Lex Luthor.

I really can't understand how somebody can actually like that BS version of Luthor who is like Dr Evil from the Austin Powers movies.

Superman was in a clear need for a movie revamp and that was made even more clearer by the disappointing SR. Thank god for MOS. Superman finally deserves a triumphant return to the big screen.

You haven't even seen MOS so I don't know what you're on about there.

Part of the problem is dark films are all the rage now and people look at the older Superman flicks and see them as campy or silly because they're not all mopey.

Turning back the world aside, STM is a masterpiece.

I'm excited for MOS, but its being done by Zack Snyder so I'll need to wait until I've seen it before I go giving it any serious praise.

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by The Guard

What the heck is Superman 2?

I know of a Superman II, but not this Superman 2...

Give it a minute.

[UaalaDan]

Originally Posted by MOS2013

You haven't even seen MOS so I don't know what you're on about there.

Part of the problem is dark films are all the rage now and people look at the older Superman flicks and see them as campy or silly because they're not all mopey.

Turning back the world aside, STM is a masterpiece.

I'm excited for MOS, but its being done by Zack Snyder so I'll need to wait until I've seen it before I go giving it any serious praise.

Oh yeah, the Superman scenes are amazing but the minute Luthor and his goons are on screen, it turns into a campfest. How about that stupid programming of the missiles scene??