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Old 06-10-2014, 12:47 AM   #76
JackWhite
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Default Re: Who is the main villain of this movie? *SPOILERS*

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
I never got the "stealing Bane's thunder" thing. Bane is still the villain that stands out in my mind when I think about the movie. He has the most iconic appearance, moments, lines and scenes. The militaristic tone of the movie is a direct result of HIS character. It's his movie as much as TDK was Joker's movie. That's why he's the main villain. Talia being revealed to be Ra's' child (which...duh) doesn't change any of that. I feel like the main reasons they included the twist were to have things come full circle during the climax, and to supply the motivation for the final chase scene. There's probably a version of the movie that could've been written transparently where Tate is revealed as Talia in Act 2 and we see more of their relationship, but I think a part of the appeal of the whole thing was slowly uncovering the mysteries of the protector/child and the pit piece by piece until it all clicks into place at the end. It's just screenwriting 101...setups and payoffs. What I enjoyed about it was how it created this rich backstory for them that lived on in our minds long after seeing the movie.

I would've thought the whole Mandarin twist fiasco would've clarified what it TRULY means to render a villain unimportant in a superhero film.
While we definitely disagree on Bane having his thunder stolen by Talia, I agree with pretty much the rest of your post, Lobster. Especially the back story of Bane and Talia's past being this big mystery.

Hell, you know how much the second act dragged on for me, but it's that Al Ghul back story and Bruce's struggle in the pit that make it worthwhile for me. Really great stuff.

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Old 06-10-2014, 09:04 AM   #77
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Default Re: Who is the main villain of this movie? *SPOILERS*

Cool, glad we agree on that JackWhite.

One thing I was thinking about recently is I was really pleased how the entire trilogy avoided one of most trite (IMO) superhero movie tropes- "two otherwise unrelated villains team up because they're both mad at the hero!" (as seen in all the 92-97 Batman sequels, Spider-Man 3, ASM-2, etc.).

This trilogy incorporated a lot of villains, but it never felt too contrived. We had villains who were pawns of larger villains, villains who turned heroes into villains by seducing them to the dark side, and villains with a shared history who were on the same team all along.

Totally unrelated, but I was thinking that in retrospect it was pretty cool that Raimi's Spider-Man 2 opted for just one villain considering it was a sequel and the temptation was surely there to put in more (Black Cat was originally planned but taken out). In general I feel like multiple villains tend to hurt superhero films more than help them, but luckily this trilogy managed to avoid that by weaving plots where everything came together in a pretty organic way. Honestly, probably the most "tacked on" character was Catwoman, but she still figured heavily into the themes of the movie and I don't really consider her a villain as such.

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Old 06-10-2014, 05:03 PM   #78
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Default Re: Who is the main villain of this movie? *SPOILERS*

Catwoman worked because she wasn't a straight up antagonist. More of a tweener of sorts and that's kind of a stretch to a degree. But I definitely love that about Nolan's trilogy too. I love how there was always this kind of pyramid or hierarchy when it came to the villains:

Batman Begins:

Carmine Falcone > Scarecrow > Ras' Al Ghul

The Dark Knight:

Sal Maroni (or you can just say the entire mob) > The Joker > Two-Face

The Dark Knight Rises:

John Daggett > Bane > Talia Al Ghul

TDK one I'm sure people will disagree with how I put that one together, but I had Two-Face over Joker only because The Joker pretty much creates Two-Face, which expands on the freak idea. But obviously The Joker was head honcho when it comes to villainy in the film. That's a given.

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