Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

[Grievous]

I like how they pointed out that the reason Reps don't want taxes on 250+ is because that actually isn't too much in high living areas like New York and most people making that kind of money have huge college debts. Reps are not trying to cooperate because they are upset over the election is untrue, they have a valid point in keeping the talks going. It urks me when people play the Obama can't doing anything for the dummies on the other side card. IMO Obama fans need to stop making excuses.

[moviedoors]

I'm having real trouble swallowing this notion that "250 grand isn't all that much in certain places" line of thinking that keeps getting repeated now.

[samsnee]

Actually 250 in New York City for a family of four is definitely not rich. You're not poor but you're not driving around a Beamer and taking huge vacations every year.

[Kelly]

$250,000 per family, especially if they are a small business owner, isn't rich ANYWHERE except in developing countries.

Most small business owners file personal income taxes and ANY PROFIT that they have goes right back into growing their business.

Obama keeps saying raise the taxes of millionaires and billionaires....fine with me, but get the damn number right.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by moviedoors

I'm having real trouble swallowing this notion that "250 grand isn't all that much in certain places" line of thinking that keeps getting repeated now.

Are you a small business owner filing your taxes with $250,000....if not, then yeah you probably would have a hard time swallowing that because you have no idea what they actually do with that money.

Really???? you think that $250,000 in a family of 4, 4 car notes, house note, possibly one or two in college is rich? Really?

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by moviedoors

I'm having real trouble swallowing this notion that "250 grand isn't all that much in certain places" line of thinking that keeps getting repeated now.

Yeah, that's just total hogwash.
Me and my partner have a combined income of $65,000 for the household and we're living very well. I could not imagine making 250K. I wouldn't even know what to do with it, lol.

In a weird way, I don't really want to make more money. I'm 100% content. And I certainly don't give a damn if my taxes are raised. That's pretty much the mandatory requirement to get us out of this deficit anyway.

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Are you a small business owner filing your taxes with $250,000....if not, then yeah you probably would have a hard time swallowing that because you have no idea what they actually do with that money.

Really???? you think that $250,000 in a family of 4, 4 car notes, house note, possibly one or two in college is rich? Really?

Absolutely. Is this the freakin' Twilight Zone?

[samsnee]

It's not poor, it's upper middle class. It's not rich. My wife and I make a little less than $250 and have a 2 year old. We live in small 1-bedroom in Brooklyn and aren't struggling per se, but we never take vacation, don't but the newest i-whatever, and barely manage to put anything into savings outside of a 401k.

It really does depend on where you live.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Kelly

$250,000 per family, especially if they are a small business owner, isn't rich ANYWHERE except in developing countries.

Most small business owners file personal income taxes and ANY PROFIT that they have goes right back into growing their business.

Obama keeps saying raise the taxes of millionaires and billionaires....fine with me, but get the damn number right.

In my area where the average income of a family is less than $100,000 it is very well off. See this is one problem in this country right now. Its like at some point in the past 4 years the media, government, and the majority woke up and completely forget that not every well to do person makes 6 figures. In my area the average person makes less than $40,000 a year so all this middle class talk going on in Washington completely excludes us. Its like we are left to pick up the scraps of whatever the rest dont want. Makes me proud to be a part of such a great country. United indeed.

[Arc-Light]

Originally Posted by Grievous

Reps in DC getting in Obama's way were voted in by people that didn't agree with all of Obama's ideas. This country is always going to be divided on politics. Saying you voted for Obama so you want his plan is basically you saying he won the election so every rep can't have a opinion anymore.

Yep tried of it, Dems have 2-1 in congress, no point in compromise anymore when i don't agree with anything the repbubs want to pass....their point of view to protect the rich at all cost is pathetic...

[Arc-Light]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

In my area where the average income of a family is less than $100,000 it is very well off. See this is one problem in this country right now. Its like at some point in the past 4 years the media, government, and the majority woke up and completely forget that not every well to do person makes 6 figures. In my area the average person makes less than $40,000 a year so all this middle class talk going on in Washington completely excludes us. Its like we are left to pick up the scraps of whatever the rest dont want. Makes me proud to be a part of such a great country. United indeed.

Right if you don't think 250 is well off or rich..you need a head check...

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

In my area where the average income of a family is less than $100,000 it is very well off. See this is one problem in this country right now. Its like at some point in the past 4 years the media, government, and the majority woke up and completely forget that not every well to do person makes 6 figures. In my area the average person makes less than $40,000 a year so all this middle class talk going on in Washington completely excludes us. Its like we are left to pick up the scraps of whatever the rest dont want. Makes me proud to be a part of such a great country. United indeed.

Here is the problem I see with this...you are equating a # with being rich, without knowing anything about the families that are "living" with that number.

Yes, $250,000 in a 2 bedroom apartment, 2 cars, no kids in college, possibly no car notes is well off...

A family of 4 or 5 with kids in college, a house note, and car notes making $250,000 is very much a different situation.

Of course, you might come back with the old, well that is their choice to own a house, kids going to college, etc.....

Which is once again, a liberal lamenting about the success of someone else. I'm not saying that that is how you think, but it is certainly the mentality of this administration.

AGAIN, I REPEAT......if he wants to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires which is exactly his words now 3x in the last 2 days....FINE. But, $250,000 has never been, and will never be a million dollars, no matter how you look at it.

And BTW, being well off and rich, are two very different things. I'm well off, but I am FAR from being rich.

People making $250,000 people (especially small business owners) out to be rich, simply because they themselves make $40,000 is just sad. Sorry, but that sounds like sour grapes to me...

I get as disgusted at liberals slamming people for being successful as much as I do conservatives tea party activists thinking that we need NO TAX INCREASE. Both need to have their heads checked, or at the least get their heads out of their asses.

I am fine with the $450,000 compromise, I would much rather it start at at least $750,000.....but I would vote for this compromise. But I will never equate $250,000 with being rich, sorry that is just ridiculous.

[Excel]

Its hard to do a generic income assessment as incomes reflect geographic areas. One who earned 250k in NYC will earn less than half of that doing the same thing elsewhere, for example.

My younger brother has a friend who are both entry level analysts at GS, one in Salt lake, one in NYC. Nyc gets 110, SLC gets 45.

Same job, same hours, same everything.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Excel

Its hard to do a generic income assessment as incomes reflect geographic areas. One who earned 250k in NYC will earn less than half of that doing the same thing elsewhere, for example.

My younger brother has a friend who are both entry level analysts at GS, one in Salt lake, one in NYC. Nyc gets 110, SLC gets 45.

Same job, same hours, same everything.

This I can agree with...very true. And on top of that, people in NYC are getting taxed out the ass from their state as well.

[moviedoors]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Are you a small business owner filing your taxes with $250,000....if not, then yeah you probably would have a hard time swallowing that because you have no idea what they actually do with that money.

Really???? you think that $250,000 in a family of 4, 4 car notes, house note, possibly one or two in college is rich? Really?

I don't recall ever saying that was "rich."

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by moviedoors

I don't recall ever saying that was "rich."

Well, you certainly didn't say that it wasn't.... it was definitely implied. But really, your post was quoted, but my response was more global so to speak.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Arc-Light

Yep tried of it, Dems have 2-1 in congress, no point in compromise anymore when i don't agree with anything the repbubs want to pass....their point of view to protect the rich at all cost is pathetic...

The compromise is $450,000, live with it. The $250,000 or $200,000 as a single probably wouldn't have touched you either.....BUT I CAN SURE AS HELL TELL YOU, that had we gone over the cliff, unless you are making absolutely no money, your taxes would have gone up. I don't know about you, but my taxes going up $6,000, would not have been a cool thing, considering my salary has been frozen now for 3 years.

[moviedoors]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Well, you certainly didn't say that it wasn't.... it was definitely implied.

I wasn't meaning to imply that. I was implying that I'm having trouble mustering wells of sympathy for people who make a quarter of a million dollars. Generally speaking, I'd say they're doing just fine. A roof over their head, a car, heath insurance, a 401K, their own business? Let me get a tiny violin.

But really, your post was quoted, but my response was more global so to speak

It seemed with all the "Do YOU really think this, do YOU really think that" that it was directed specifically at me.

[Kelly]

I would say that a good number of those people that make $250,000, "generally speaking" a roof over their head, a car, health insurance, a 401K, their own business....probably work their asses off for that, ESPECIALLY if they have their own business. I don't play my "little violin", I applaud them....they are the backbone of this country and a good number of the employers in this country.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Here is the problem I see with this...you are equating a # with being rich, without knowing anything about the families that are "living" with that number.

Yes, $250,000 in a 2 bedroom apartment, 2 cars, no kids in college, possibly no car notes is well off...

A family of 4 or 5 with kids in college, a house note, and car notes making $250,000 is very much a different situation.

Of course, you might come back with the old, well that is their choice to own a house, kids going to college, etc.....

Which is once again, a liberal lamenting about the success of someone else. I'm not saying that that is how you think, but it is certainly the mentality of this administration.

AGAIN, I REPEAT......if he wants to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires which is exactly his words now 3x in the last 2 days....FINE. But, $250,000 has never been, and will never be a million dollars, no matter how you look at it.

And BTW, being well off and rich, are two very different things. I'm well off, but I am FAR from being rich.

People making $250,000 people (especially small business owners) out to be rich, simply because they themselves make $40,000 is just sad. Sorry, but that sounds like sour grapes to me...

I get as disgusted at liberals slamming people for being successful as much as I do conservatives tea party activists thinking that we need NO TAX INCREASE. Both need to have their heads checked, or at the least get their heads out of their asses.

I am fine with the $450,000 compromise, I would much rather it start at at least $750,000.....but I would vote for this compromise. But I will never equate $250,000 with being rich, sorry that is just ridiculous.

Nowhere in my post did I use the word rich. And yes I know that lifestyle and location is more important than a number in this discussion. However, if someone pops out 4-5 kids, buys an expensive car, and a huge mortgage its all on them. It doesnt change the fact that $250,000 is a substantial chunk of change.

[chesslover]

No deductions. No credits. One tax rate of X%. X=a whole number > 0 and < 101

Oh and have a beautiful year

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by chesslover

No deductions. No credits. One tax rate of X%. X=a whole number > 0 and < 101

Oh and have a beautiful year

You mean a flat tax across the board? Isnt there plenty of evidence showing this wont work?

[chaseter]

Originally Posted by moviedoors

I'm having real trouble swallowing this notion that "250 grand isn't all that much in certain places" line of thinking that keeps getting repeated now.

I'm having trouble swallowing the notion that people on the left think raising taxes on people who own businesses during a recession won't have any negative effect on the number of people they employ or the benefits they offer. Then again we NEED that $60 billion a year to bring down the $1.2 trillion yearly deficits

[chaseter]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

Absolutely. Is this the freakin' Twilight Zone?

I love the resentment on these boards. Tax the rich! TAX THE RICH

[Webfoot Hero]

Originally Posted by chaseter

I'm having trouble swallowing the notion that people on the left think raising taxes on people who own businesses during a recession won't have any negative effect on the number of people they employ or the benefits they offer. Then again we NEED that $60 billion a year to bring down the $1.2 trillion yearly deficits

Simple math and basic economics seems to have failed them. Guess this happens when you have a bunch of lawyers by trade (politicians) trying to make a budget.