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Old 01-10-2013, 09:38 AM   #601
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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Originally Posted by enterthemadness View Post
But this isn't paying our bills. We are basically saying 'Hey, instead of paying off the debt in a logical way, how about we just make a Trillion dollar coin?' I don't see this as reasonable.

And If I recall, from reading wie's link two days ago, this isn't liekly to happen. It just wouldn't work. But hey, I don't get paid to talk about this stuff, so I dunno. Just my two cents.
So, the logical way is to default on your debt, right? That's what the right wingers in congress are preaching right now. Look, as it is right now we have to borrow money in order to pay the bills, at least by printing real money we can do that at no interest or expense. That seems to make more sense to me.

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:48 AM   #602
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So, the logical way is to default on your debt, right? That's what the right wingers in congress are preaching right now. Look, as it is right now we have to borrow money in order to pay the bills, at least by printing real money we can do that at no interest or expense. That seems to make more sense to me.

It's a short term solution that in the long term will add even more problems.

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Old 01-10-2013, 01:28 PM   #603
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It's a short term solution that in the long term will add even more problems.
Actually the debt wouldn't rise (not due to the minting and deposit of the coin) since you are not essentially borrowing with any interest. Its just like you holding money right now except the money is held by the Federal Reserve. The federal government could now use that money to pay its debts. $1 trillion is enough to pay on the interest of our current debt for two and a half to three years without having to raise the debt ceiling.

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Old 01-10-2013, 01:58 PM   #604
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Actually the debt wouldn't rise (not due to the minting and deposit of the coin) since you are not essentially borrowing with any interest. Its just like you holding money right now except the money is held by the Federal Reserve. The federal government could now use that money to pay its debts. $1 trillion is enough to pay on the interest of our current debt for two and a half to three years without having to raise the debt ceiling.
Except it can't pay it's debt because it's STILL overspending.

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:02 PM   #605
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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Technically it would work.

Legally, it's muddy if Obama could have it created through an Executive Order

Economically, it's a bit up in the air if it would be inflationary or not, and how much.

Financially and politically, the fallout would likely be disastrous. Politically, it would either destroy the Dems or the Reps, depending on if it succeeds or not. Financially, it could be another signal we can't pay our bills, and we end up taking another credit rating hit.
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It's called Accounting Fraud, there wouldn't be any inflation. But then it really goes well with the administration's theme.


The $100,000 Series Gold Certificate

Just for the record, the last time something like this was tried was back in 1934. Back then, the Treasury issued the $100,000 Series 1934 Gold Certificate, which is the largest denomination of currency ever printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. They were used only for official transactions between Federal Reserve Banks and were not circulated among the general public. Over 42,000 or so of these notes were issued (i.e. $4.2 billion, which would be close to $73 billion today) between 1934 and 1935 and over the course of those two years the average rate of inflation was a little over 3%. In fact over the course of a ten year period from 1934 to 1944, the average rate of inflation was 2.91%. Since a president was already set back in 1934, we can certainly do this again with a single (or multiple) platinum coin and not see that much of an increase in inflation.

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:03 PM   #606
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My problem with the coin is that we learn nothing. Instead of reforming bloated budgets, and just spending more responsibly. Fixing tax loop holes, and fraud. Reigning in corrupt banks, and CEO's. Raising up the middle class and poor to have more disposable income to pump into the economy, We simply avoid the talk, kick the can down the road, and print more money. What happens when those trillions are spent, and our current course leads us back in debt with possible added inflation. Do we make more coins, and compound the problem?

Our government needs to stop being lazy, and start working again. Tough talks are important. It's things like stubbornness, greed, lazy work ethics (see congress), and party line politics that are the problem. The coin would only solve cosmetic, surface damage, while the real, deeper issues continue unchecked.

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:22 PM   #607
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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My problem with the coin is that we learn nothing. Instead of reforming bloated budgets, and just spending more responsibly. Fixing tax loop holes, and fraud. Reigning in corrupt banks, and CEO's. Raising up the middle class and poor to have more disposable income to pump into the economy, We simply avoid the talk, kick the can down the road, and print more money. What happens when those trillions are spent, and our current course leads us back in debt with possible added inflation. Do we make more coins, and compound the problem?

Our government needs to stop being lazy, and start working again. Tough talks are important. It's things like stubbornness, greed, lazy work ethics (see congress), and party line politics that are the problem. The coin would only solve cosmetic, surface damage, while the real, deeper issues continue unchecked.
Actually, we will learn that we don't have to let a faction of congress hold the country hostage just to establish their ideological agenda and no, the coin would not be cosmetic since it would go towards paying down our debt. Yes, let's stop playing games and start working together on issues that really matter here at home.

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:28 PM   #608
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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Actually, we will learn that we don't have to let a faction of congress hold the country hostage just to establish their ideological agenda and no, the coin would not be cosmetic since it would go towards paying down our debt. Yes, let's stop playing games and start working together on issues that really matter here at home.
Well hell, if its such a great idea, why not make a $100 trillion coin, pay off the debt completely, have a surplus and get everyone out of poverty?

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Old 01-10-2013, 03:35 PM   #609
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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Well hell, if its such a great idea, why not make a $100 trillion coin, pay off the debt completely, have a surplus and get everyone out of poverty?
Well, if you look at the way it was done from 1934 to 1935, 42 thousand $100,000 notes were printed and supposedly deposited into the Federal Reserve. That was $4.2 billion. The GDP back in 1935 was about $73 billion. In other words, the amount of money generated in that form was a little over half a percent of GDP. We know that small a deposit had little impact on inflation. Today, our current GDP is over $15 trillion. If we deposited $1 trillion into the Fed, that would be around two-thirds of a percentage point of GDP, which once again should be small enough that it should not affect the economy. To prove that point out, from 2010 to 2011, the Federal Reserve pumped $2 trillion into the US economy during QE1 through QE3 and there was no significant increase in inflation over that period. I would not recommend minting a $100 trillion coin for that reason, but I could see them over the course of the next four years minting a single $1 trillion coin per year in an effort to pay on at least the interest on the debt if the Republicans decide not to raise the debt ceiling.

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Old 01-11-2013, 05:39 PM   #610
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

And it's still accounting fraud. I didn't say anything about inflation. I said accounting fraud. It goes well with the administration and the people trying to sell this.

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:05 PM   #611
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

Well.....


http://shopping.yahoo.com/news/where...193123651.html

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Old 01-12-2013, 09:51 AM   #612
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

So yeah, I'm totally going to pull an ocean's 11 (the original not that new convoluted mess) if they mint that coin. Who's in? I still need a small Asian acrobat, a Louisiana grifter that can do slight of hand, and a fat bald man that can do accents.

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Old 01-12-2013, 12:28 PM   #613
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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So yeah, I'm totally going to pull an ocean's 11 (the original not that new convoluted mess) if they mint that coin. Who's in? I still need a small Asian acrobat, a Louisiana grifter that can do slight of hand, and a fat bald man that can do accents.
It would be very difficult to pull a Danny Ocean and Co if the coin was 30 inches in diameter, 4 inches thick and made of solid platinum. It would weigh more than a ton. Furthermore it would be illegal for the public to possess so you probably couldn't sell it.

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Old 01-12-2013, 12:46 PM   #614
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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It would be very difficult to pull a Danny Ocean and Co if the coin was 30 inches in diameter, 4 inches thick and made of solid platinum. It would weigh more than a ton. Furthermore it would be illegal for the public to possess so you probably couldn't sell it.
first off don't rain on my parade, secondly I've got the weight thing covered that's what the mutant albino alligator is for and finally says you.

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Old 01-12-2013, 07:00 PM   #615
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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first off don't rain on my parade, secondly I've got the weight thing covered that's what the mutant albino alligator is for and finally says you.


Mutant albino aligators. Is there such a thing? Anyway:

Obama Administration Rejects Platinum Coin Debt-Ceiling Solution

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2458379.html


It seems like the Fed won't accept the coin anyway so the point is moot.

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Old 01-12-2013, 07:13 PM   #616
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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Mutant albino aligators. Is there such a thing? Anyway:

Obama Administration Rejects Platinum Coin Debt-Ceiling Solution

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2458379.html


It seems like the Fed won't accept the coin anyway so the point is moot.
Albino yes, mutant...no, not until my baby gestates and emerges from my secret lair.

Good I'm glad that nonsense is over, but now I'm going to have to mastermind stealing something else. Oh, bother.

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Old 01-13-2013, 02:45 PM   #617
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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Actually, we will learn that we don't have to let a faction of congress hold the country hostage just to establish their ideological agenda and no, the coin would not be cosmetic since it would go towards paying down our debt. Yes, let's stop playing games and start working together on issues that really matter here at home.
Oh goodness...........

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Old 01-13-2013, 09:02 PM   #618
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Oh goodness...........


Cat got your tongue?

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Old 01-13-2013, 09:54 PM   #619
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

How goes those spending cuts?

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And that is how Uncle Ben dies.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:24 PM   #620
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How goes those spending cuts?
I think the ship is actually going down this time. Whether congress allows us to default (which republicans are seriously considering) or we raise the debt ceiling and spend even more recklessly the ship is sunk.

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:27 PM   #621
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

the debt ceiling has nothing to with future spending.

Either the Republicans threatening not to raise it don't understand that, or they're counting on their constituents not knowing that so they can play on their fears.

Sadly, I think it's a mix of both.

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:32 PM   #622
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the debt ceiling has nothing to with future spending.

Either the Republicans threatening not to raise it don't understand that, or they're counting on their constituents not knowing that so they can play on their fears.

Sadly, I think it's a mix of both.
It seems tho I could be reading this wrong that the Republicans are afraid the president will spend more recklessly and avoid spending cuts that we desperately need. The debt ceiling and the default is their leverage to get him to agree on spending cuts and to curb gratuitous future spending by shutting down the government and paying off the debt.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...own-86116.html

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:40 PM   #623
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues

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It seems tho I could be reading this wrong that the Republicans are afraid the president will spend more recklessly and avoid spending cuts that we desperately need. The debt ceiling and the default is their leverage to get him to agree on spending cuts and to curb gratuitous future spending by shutting down the government and paying off the debt.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...own-86116.html
And yet the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future spending.

It just allows the treasury to pay the bills we already have. If the ceiling isn't raised, then we can't pay our past spending, and go into default.

Even if the government stopped all new spending tomorrow, we'd still need to raise the debt ceiling. So it's a completely stupid thing for the Republicans to latch onto as a bargaining chip. They literally can't hold off on raising the ceiling without putting the country into default.

Although, maybe they don't care if the country financially collapses.

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Old 01-13-2013, 11:43 PM   #624
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:48 PM   #625
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Which takes us back to some combination of the Republicans being ignorant about how the debt ceiling works, to them counting on the voters being ignorant about it (which I wouldn't be surprised to learn the people actually were that ignorant).

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