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Old 08-10-2012, 06:26 PM   #101
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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The Federal government might as well declare a state of national emergency, we are already over 100% of the GDP to Federal debt ratio. As much as it won't get dealt with because of an election year the US is dangerously close to default and bankruptcy is already inevitable.
Well damn...

I blame the D's and the R's though...one of the reasons I am Libertarian.

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Old 08-10-2012, 06:36 PM   #102
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

The only reason that Libertarians do not have the same history, is because they have not gotten far enough in National elections. It's called the corruption of "human nature" not a letter behind the name.

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Old 08-10-2012, 07:41 PM   #103
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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The only reason that Libertarians do not have the same history, is because they have not gotten far enough in National elections. It's called the corruption of "human nature" not a letter behind the name.

No, both major party's, D's and R's don't want a 3rd party in America. When 80% of Americans would consider voting 3rd party...but then the polling companies don't list a 3rd party in their surveys..something is up.

Hell, the Republicans put Huntsman in time out because he said America needed a 3rd party. Didn't get invited to RNC.

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Old 08-10-2012, 07:48 PM   #104
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

That doesn't apply to what Kelly said at all.

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Old 08-10-2012, 07:58 PM   #105
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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That doesn't apply to what Kelly said at all.
If your party's nominee isn't being included in the polls, he or she isn't likely to make a dent. The only way if Johnson makes a dent is if a crap load of Paul Supporters come his way, which is likely, not 100% gaurantee, but likely. If it wasn't for Ron Paul I wouldn't have known about the Libertarian Party, which means I wouldn't have known about Johnson, and wouldn't have been registered Libertarian now in NC. Yeah, there's the web and radio, but fact is 3rd parties don't get much tv time.

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Old 08-10-2012, 08:02 PM   #106
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

Which still has nothing to do with her post.

Kelly was saying that Libertarians would be just as susceptible to corruption as the other parties. Not about why they can't get into power.

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Old 08-10-2012, 08:06 PM   #107
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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Which still has nothing to do with her post.

Kelly was saying that Libertarians would be just as susceptible to corruption as the other parties. Not about why they can't get into power.

Kelly is a woman? Did Kelly used to be the mod known as Kel?

Libertarians can't be corrupt, but then again, I read Libertarians don't like Wayne Allan Root...and I read the party could be dead in a few years...no idea how true this is though.

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Old 08-10-2012, 09:52 PM   #108
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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The Federal government might as well declare a state of national emergency, we are already over 100% of the GDP to Federal debt ratio. As much as it won't get dealt with because of an election year the US is dangerously close to default and bankruptcy is already inevitable.
The UK had a Debt/GDP Ratio of over 320% in the 19th century and they didn't default. Similarly many minor Italian states had Debt/GDP ratios of over 400% and were still able to service their debts without defaulting. I don't see any reason the US defaulting anytime soon, particularly when we're on a fiat monetary system plus the fact that the American economy is still deleveraging.

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Old 08-10-2012, 09:57 PM   #109
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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The UK had a Debt/GDP Ratio of over 320% in the 19th century and they didn't default. Similarly many minor Italian states had Debt/GDP ratios of over 400% and were still able to service their debts without defaulting. I don't see any reason the US defaulting anytime soon, particularly when we're on a fiat monetary system plus the fact that the American economy is still deleveraging.
16 Trillion debt says otherwise...weak dollar says otherwise...

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Old 08-10-2012, 10:18 PM   #110
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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16 Trillion debt says otherwise...weak dollar says otherwise...
The absolute amount is irrelevant, what is striking is that most people tend to look at the Federal debt solely, neglecting private sector debt. The US private sector has been and still is deleveraging since 2008, cutting the federal deficit now would tank the American economy.

As for the weak dollar, Americans forget to remember that the primary reason why the dollar was so strong (overvalued in fact) in the late 1990s was due to then Treasury Secretary Robin Rubin's strong dollar policy. The US doesn't need that now, not especially when inflation is so low and unemployment is so high– not to mention the US trade deficit is over $500 billion, which is by far the larger threat than the budget deficit.

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Old 08-10-2012, 11:29 PM   #111
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

I don't think comparing the economies of the 19th century British Empire and Renaissance Italian states is necessarily relevant. Greece is at 165% and it likely to default in some form either through direct collapse or exiting the Eurozone. If it does it will mean at least a major double dip recession for Europe and America.

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Old 08-11-2012, 12:46 AM   #112
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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I don't think comparing the economies of the 19th century British Empire and Renaissance Italian states is necessarily relevant. Greece is at 165% and it likely to default in some form either through direct collapse or exiting the Eurozone. If it does it will mean at least a major double dip recession for Europe and America.
It technically isn't, because back then they were on the gold standard which made debt far harder to finance than on a fiat system, not to mention the capital markets back then were far less efficient than they were today. But the fact that they didn't default back then in spite of the circumstances shows that the US isn't defaulting on debt-to-GDP ratios of 100%.

Also interesting that you brought up Greece because it too is very unlike the US. Greece can't print it's own currency and their EU membership allows capital flights to take place very easily by moving deposits from Greek to German banks; Greece isn't defaulting solely because of their public debt burdens.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:12 AM   #113
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

I've heard that America can never go bankrupt because it print's its own currency, say lost it's status as the holder of the world's reserve currency this could not remain. A collapse of Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland, or Portugal will inevitably happen in the next few years. When it does the slow recovery America has endured since 2008 will completely reverse itself. They will go in a domino effect I imagine once the Eurozone is severely hit. Instead of the projected return to full recovery in 2017 according to the White House then it will probably take until around 2020. In which time China will also become the world's largest economy.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:27 AM   #114
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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I've heard that America can never go bankrupt because it print's its own currency, say lost it's status as the holder of the world's reserve currency this could not remain. A collapse of Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland, or Portugal will inevitably happen in the next few years. When it does the slow recovery America has endured since 2008 will completely reverse itself. They will go in a domino effect I imagine once the Eurozone is severely hit. Instead of the projected return to full recovery in 2017 according to the White House then it will probably take until around 2020. In which time China will also become the world's largest economy.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:29 AM   #115
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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I've heard that America can never go bankrupt because it print's its own currency, say lost it's status as the holder of the world's reserve currency this could not remain. A collapse of Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland, or Portugal will inevitably happen in the next few years. When it does the slow recovery America has endured since 2008 will completely reverse itself. They will go in a domino effect I imagine once the Eurozone is severely hit. Instead of the projected return to full recovery in 2017 according to the White House then it will probably take until around 2020. In which time China will also become the world's largest economy.
China is going to get hit harder by the Euro crisis than the US would. The Chinese economy is roughly 20% exports, of which the EU is their largest customer. On the other hand, US exports to the EU only account to 2% of GDP. Sure the DJIA and corporate earnings will take a hit, but really the US is in a much better position than China in that regard.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:39 AM   #116
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

The reason I think China will be the world's largest economy is because it will eventually take the experience its had in manufacturing for the West over the past four decades and starting using it for themselves instead of their own. They will eventually refuse to keep taking on US debt and reduce their economic dependency on Western manufacturing for cheap products. Manufacturing is never going to return to the US because it's been in Asia for decades now and eventually it will be completely automated as an industry too. In other words China and India too will start to become self-sufficient as manufacturing powers and other industries.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:52 AM   #117
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Iraq oil production surpasses Iran

Despite the negative news of the oil fire causing a rise of oil prices, this is a great sign. One of the major factors for the spike in oil prices since 2003 was the drawn out US led invasion that stopped the production of oil in the country and then destroyed tons of infrastructure. As the economy slowly begins to heal, NATO withdrawals from Afghanistan, the Arab Spring resolves and allows in Western investment, tension from war is reduced in the Middle East and more I can see US oil prices returning to being under $1.50 per gallon again around 2018-2020. The world just needs to heal from a decade of poor economics now.

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:47 AM   #118
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

China will never become the world's larget economy, they heavily dependent on other countries for raw materials, their economy is based on the Europeans & American economy, because they are their largest customers, and their econmy is on the verge of collapse like everyone else, but much worst because they don't have the infrastructure to withstand collapse and the huge population that's a drag on their economy....reasons why they are in a mad dash to build their Navy & Air Force, to go to war with Europe & America when these two decide to default on payments.

Neitherless, expect a huge worldwide popuation decrease...as the world's infrastructure become more automated, the less human labor is needed, which means more people will access more resources than contributing back to society, so the population will need to decrease....."By Any Means Necessary!" Be aware.

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Old 08-11-2012, 12:26 PM   #119
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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China will never become the world's larget economy, they heavily dependent on other countries for raw materials, their economy is based on the Europeans & American economy, because they are their largest customers, and their econmy is on the verge of collapse like everyone else, but much worst because they don't have the infrastructure to withstand collapse and the huge population that's a drag on their economy....reasons why they are in a mad dash to build their Navy & Air Force, to go to war with Europe & America when these two decide to default on payments.

Neitherless, expect a huge worldwide popuation decrease...as the world's infrastructure become more automated, the less human labor is needed, which means more people will access more resources than contributing back to society, so the population will need to decrease....."By Any Means Necessary!" Be aware.
Oh noooooes, the NWO, they tainted the vaccines.

that why I don't get vaccines.

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Old 08-11-2012, 02:06 PM   #120
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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China will never become the world's larget economy, they heavily dependent on other countries for raw materials, their economy is based on the Europeans & American economy, because they are their largest customers, and their econmy is on the verge of collapse like everyone else, but much worst because they don't have the infrastructure to withstand collapse and the huge population that's a drag on their economy....reasons why they are in a mad dash to build their Navy & Air Force, to go to war with Europe & America when these two decide to default on payments.

Neitherless, expect a huge worldwide popuation decrease...as the world's infrastructure become more automated, the less human labor is needed, which means more people will access more resources than contributing back to society, so the population will need to decrease....."By Any Means Necessary!" Be aware.
I know their economy is on the brink, but what they are going to at a point is just stop allowing in Western investment when their economic stability becomes too uncertain and will start relying on their own industry. Them building their Asian Manhattan and starting to invest in Africa are examples of this, and will only increase.

This isn't Red Dawn, China isn't building it's military to challenge the West offensively. China has always been super secure about its borders, most of its wars in the modern era have been about this especially with India and Vietnam. They have nearly two billion people and their military isn't even near the size of the United States yet. That's over six times the population of America. Remember those largely rural areas have earthquakes, floods, famines, and more that can kill thousands in one strike. They need that for a landmass as large, but much less build up in infrastructure as the US mainland.

There will certainly be a worldwide population decrease as industry spreads across the planet and education grows too. Industries like logistics and manufacturing will eventually be completely automated.

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Old 08-14-2012, 02:22 PM   #121
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

French riots: Amiens buildings torched in clashes

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Old 08-14-2012, 04:18 PM   #122
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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China will never become the world's larget economy, they heavily dependent on other countries for raw materials, their economy is based on the Europeans & American economy, because they are their largest customers, and their econmy is on the verge of collapse like everyone else, but much worst because they don't have the infrastructure to withstand collapse and the huge population that's a drag on their economy....reasons why they are in a mad dash to build their Navy & Air Force, to go to war with Europe & America when these two decide to default on payments.

Neitherless, expect a huge worldwide popuation decrease...as the world's infrastructure become more automated, the less human labor is needed, which means more people will access more resources than contributing back to society, so the population will need to decrease....."By Any Means Necessary!" Be aware.
I beg to differ..... and others do as well.



Many believe that China will overtake the US as top economy as early as 2020. They aren't far behind us now....and this isn't just GDP, this is PPP as well. Right now their Industrial GDP % is more than 2x ours.

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Old 08-14-2012, 04:23 PM   #123
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

Martin Jacques: Understanding the rise of China

I completely welcome their rise because it will mean a more transparent Chinese society and a rapid end to US imperialism around the world for good. Welcome too the rise of India's economy to be the same size of the US and with a resurgence of Brazil, Russia, South Africa, and others because it will put an end to American and Western military and economic globalization of the planet because they will have to play fair for a change.


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Old 08-14-2012, 05:51 PM   #124
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China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy in five years

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Old 08-14-2012, 07:13 PM   #125
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Default Re: Discussion: The Economy, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

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Hollande deserves it

He plans to:

- create 60k teaching jobs
- cut the retirement age from 62 to 60

All the while he must meet his deficit target by cutting 12 billion this year, and 33 billion next year. All Euro and based on incredibly padded and presumptuous analysis. By presumptuous it assumes rich people will bend over and take it.

Oh the while companies are now firing people left and right thanks to his insanely stupid "making it harder to fire someone" policy coming up. And when that does, no one will hire anyone. Belgium and Switzerland is booming with wealth with the exodus of not only millionaires, but the next couple traunches of earners who are not millionaires. Tons are companies are now moving all their jobs and capital overseas.

As of right now, more than half of France's GDP comes from government spending. They will cannibalize themselves, like a snowball rolling down a mountain.

So what will happen to the vaunted social safety net?

Let them burn. Let it ****ing burn. You voted for it, reap it.

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