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Old 01-11-2013, 06:29 PM   #976
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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okay so now that the timeline has been settled, what are theories regarding Coulson?
Coulson's death was a manipulation by Fury. As a result Coulson get promoted. He's no longer a field agent now he's training the next level of field agents. Remember SHIELD was decimated in Avengers (Project Pegasus), plus maybe some of the agents he train may become street level superheroes.


His job as field agent can be handled by Jasper Sitwell. Coulson could also be the liason for SWORD who we know is coming.

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:34 PM   #977
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I love it!
The problem with that is they will need to have all questions answered. Like why cant our The Avengers team cant go there & save that world. Which they would do & why cant alternate Phil go back etc. All types of other stuff as well to be answered. That just seems more complicated then it needs to be. Then with a LMD answer

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:41 PM   #978
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

I'm thoroughly surprised that SHIELD is being set after The Avengers. There were so many reasons why it would be so much easier to set it pre-Iron Man. Now I'm really perplexed as to how they will handle this...

As far as Coulson...I still believe he's dead and will only appear in flashbacks...

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:43 PM   #979
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As far as Coulson...I still believe he's dead and will only appear in flashbacks...
It has been confirmed that he is the main character of the show. The show will follow Coulson & his team

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:49 PM   #980
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It has been confirmed that he is the main character of the show. The show will follow Coulson & his team
I just...don't know. I feel like the whole LMD thing would be absolutely terrible. In fact, making his death fake at all really cheapens the deep emotions that brought the Avengers together.

I guess I'll just wait and see... IN WHEDON I TRUST!

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Old 01-11-2013, 07:07 PM   #981
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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I just...don't know. I feel like the whole LMD thing would be absolutely terrible. In fact, making his death fake at all really cheapens the deep emotions that brought the Avengers together.

I guess I'll just wait and see... IN WHEDON I TRUST!
He very well may have died, and was subsequently resurrected by SHIELD super-science. I love the fact that the Coulson character is returning, just so long as they show the severe health repercussions of having one's torso pierced by Thanos' mind gem powered spear.

Once he decided to executive produce a SHIELD tv show, Whedon really didn't have a choice. I'm sure more than one ABC executive asked about the availability of the extremely likeable fan-favorite who had major roles in three MCU films and actually had experience starring in a network television show.

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Old 01-11-2013, 07:38 PM   #982
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

Of course he had a choice. I see the advantage of having him alive, but I seriously doubt the show hinged on that decision.

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:59 PM   #983
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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I called that right from the start. It really wouldn't make sense to make Coulson the main character of the show, only to set it in the past and explain that he actually died in The Avengers. That would be confusing for the audience, for one thing, who would need to be constantly reminded that all events in the show took place in the past. It would also squander the opportunity to build on ties to the movie universe and on Agent Coulson's familiarity and popularity.

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Of course he had a choice. I see the advantage of having him alive, but I seriously doubt the show hinged on that decision.
When Marvel announced that Clark Gregg would be starring in the SHIELD TV show, Joss Whedon said [paraphrasing], "We were never going to do a SHIELD show without Agent Coulson." Someone should ask him what he meant by that.

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:03 PM   #984
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I would prefer the super-science aspect to an LMD, with Coulson left weakened from the whole thing, rather than "enhanced" or some ****. It would also fall in line with the angle of very un-super people living in, and wrangling, a world where super people exist.

It's not the best idea, but it feels better than the cop-out that they faked the whole thing.

Also very happy it's not a prequel. Like Chewy said, let's look forward.

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Old 01-11-2013, 09:18 PM   #985
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I was never on board with the idea of it being set pre-Avengers, so this news couldn't make me happier.

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:56 AM   #986
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

The explanation for Coulson's survival should be rooted in comic book tradition, IMO. An LMD would make sense since the android doppelgängers are so intrinsically linked to SHIELD in comics lore. The Infinity Formula is another possibility, though Whedon has made it clear that none of the characters will have powers. They might also say that SHIELD's doctors used experimental nanotechnology on Coulson as that has been used in the Hulk films and is suitably science fiction-y. Whedon simply needs to make it absolutely plausible in a comic book universe; "realism" is highly overrated where comic book movies (and shows) are concerned. The closer it comes to comic book science fantasy the better, in my opinion.


As for the direction of the series, this quote summed it up perfectly:

Quote:
Whedon meanwhile spoke to MTV this week, and commenting on the smaller scale of S.H.I.E.L.D. compared to the Marvel movies said, “You've got to bring a bit of spectacle to it. It’s got to be bigger than your average cop show. But at the end of the day, it’s about the peripheral people. It’s about the people on the edges of the grand adventures. The whole point of the show is that even with all these big things, the little things matter. So it’s about people who don’t have super powers. There will be some people with powers, there will be FX, there will be the spectacle of science-fiction storytelling, but all played on a very human, small level. That’s the appeal of the thing.”
Whedon understands the reason Agent Coulson resonated so with the audience in his film appearances. Coulson was always the more or less normal guy who was called in to deal with all of the abnormal stuff that happens when superheros and aliens roam the earth. He and his SHIELD teams were always hopelessly outgunned, as Fury put it, yet they still willingly confronted beings who could easily destroy them and possibly the world itself. It will be interesting to see how Coulson and his minions deal with it all. Coming up against the superhuman and inhuman on a daily basis must do a number of the psyche of even the most jaded agent. A lot of drama can come from the collision of the ordinary and the extraordinary , as well as a lot of humor.


The confirmation that we'll see characters with powers in the show was reassuring. Earlier comments from Whedon had left that unclear. There are so many minor characters available that it would have been a crime not to use them. For every Doctor Strange and Black Panther in Marvel's catalog there are a dozen Doctor Druids and Batroc the Leapers, characters who would never appear in the film universe. SHIELD is a good place to make use of those guys.

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Old 01-12-2013, 03:42 AM   #987
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

If Agent Coulson turns out to have survived then frankly there are no risks for any character in the Marvel Universe. *shrugs*

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Old 01-12-2013, 03:49 AM   #988
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

JMC, that's always been the case I can count the number of MU characters who have stayed dead on my fingers.

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Old 01-12-2013, 04:10 AM   #989
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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As for the direction of the series, this quote summed it up perfectly:
Haha, that quote sounds a lot like a certain Buffy episode from Season 3 called "The Zeppo," which focused on the stuff that Xander - the "regular guy" of Scoobies - had to deal with in the periphery while Buffy & Co were saving the world. And considering "The Zeppo" is one of my all-time favorite Buffy episodes, I'm gonna take that as a good sign.

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Old 01-12-2013, 04:14 AM   #990
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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JMC, that's always been the case I can count the number of MU characters who have stayed dead on my fingers.
Then there's no point in doing anything like what happened in Avengers again coz all you're doing is stringing the audience along. If Coulson can't even be killed then there's no chance a principle cast member is going to be at risk ever. Whatever, their universe, they can do what they want.

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Old 01-12-2013, 04:50 AM   #991
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If Coulson can't even be killed then there's no chance a principle cast member is going to be at risk ever.
I love ya, jmc, but that's kind of a ridiculous exaggeration, imo. If they go in that direction, which we don't know they're doing yet - just because a character who was thought to be dead (when a known liar simply SAID he was declared dead off-screen) turned out to be alive, once, that means no other death matters? No other death will stick? This is Joss Whedon we're talking about - he who feeds on pain and misery. He's not afraid to kill off characters and keep them dead. He's literally done it with (multiple) major characters in every single universe he's created. It's kind of his hobby.

Raising the stakes has never been an issue for him, so I see no reason to think it will start being an issue now just because Coulson may have survived his injury and Nick Fury may have told a(nother) lie for the sake of the mission at hand. Of course I don't want to get ahead of ourselves since we don't even know if that's gonna be the case it yet. But it certainly wouldn't ruin anything for me if it were.

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Old 01-12-2013, 05:40 AM   #992
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

My point was if a lesser character like Coulson can be brought back when he was killed off means any future death of any major character will have no emotional weight since that character has just as much chance of returning again. I read some people say in the Avengers thread they got emotional when Coulson died, and whilst I didn't think there was enough weight to the character to warrant such a response I'm not going to begrudge someone who did, but now those people have been short changed.

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Old 01-12-2013, 07:09 AM   #993
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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My point was if a lesser character like Coulson can be brought back when he was killed off means any future death of any major character will have no emotional weight since that character has just as much chance of returning again. I read some people say in the Avengers thread they got emotional when Coulson died, and whilst I didn't think there was enough weight to the character to warrant such a response I'm not going to begrudge someone who did, but now those people have been short changed.
Nobody felt short-changed when Spock "died" in The Wrath of Khan and came back one film later as good as ever. And Spock's "death" scene still carries far more resonance with fans than Coulson's ever could.

As for the fear that there's never any "risk" of an important character dying: of course there is. I'm 100% positive that we're going to see at least one major death in IM3 this year, and possibly even more in Thor: TDW. Add to that Joss' recent comment that he plans to bring the personal pain to the heroes in Avengers 2, and I'd say that Phase II films will probably be chock full of supporting cast dropping like flies --- and who knows, maybe even an actual superhero as well.

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Old 01-12-2013, 08:34 AM   #994
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I can't speak for what people's reactions were 30 years ago to Spock being brought back to life, all I know is that his death was pointless in the grand scheme of things and the emotional impact that films ending has is lost, a great way to have ended the character for real, but completely undone by him returning. But like I said it's not my universe, they wanna start bringing characters back to life then that's their choice, it just starts watering down the risk to all the character if they start doing it.

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Old 01-12-2013, 08:46 AM   #995
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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Nobody felt short-changed when Spock "died" in The Wrath of Khan and came back one film later as good as ever. And Spock's "death" scene still carries far more resonance with fans than Coulson's ever could.
The difference here is that Spock's return was set up before he even died, when he transferred his memories into McCoy before he climbed into the reactor.

Coulson's return wasn't set up at all. If you're going to yell "they mentioned LMDs!", that's a pretty poor set up. It was a throw-away line by Stark. We never actually saw an LMD or heard anything that should lead us to believe they even exist or what they are. The GA has no idea what an LMD is at this point, so Coulson's return being explained by one would seem like a pretty hard retcon.

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As for the fear that there's never any "risk" of an important character dying: of course there is. I'm 100% positive that we're going to see at least one major death in IM3 this year, and possibly even more in Thor: TDW. Add to that Joss' recent comment that he plans to bring the personal pain to the heroes in Avengers 2, and I'd say that Phase II films will probably be chock full of supporting cast dropping like flies --- and who knows, maybe even an actual superhero as well.
For me personally, Coulson's return doesn't bother me in that I fear no one will die in the MCU ever, but rather that Coulson's death specifically meant nothing in The Avengers. It obviously affected The Avengers in a profound enough way that they united to save the world (basically in Coulson's honor!).

And furthermore, we know the Avengers already have little trust for Fury and know him to be a manipulator...but they all love Coulson. If Coulson didn't die (or even worse, if he was an LMD), then he lied to the Avengers as well, and is therefore just as bad as Fury. Will Coulson then still be so beloved by the Avengers, or even by fans?

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Old 01-12-2013, 01:07 PM   #996
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

Coulson is a secret agent, he does what's practical, even if it means lying.

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Old 01-12-2013, 06:01 PM   #997
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Coulson is a secret agent, he does what's practical, even if it means lying.

Deception is an essential part of spycraft. It would be more of a problem if Fury & co. didn't lie, scheme and deceive. For Fury (and perhaps Coulson) to manipulate Stark and Rogers so brazenly makes him a much more dangerous and badass character than he would be if he played everything above-board. Not only is Fury not to be trusted, but he will use any means to get what the results he wants.


The lie, once exposed, could be integral in shaping the Avengers' relationship with Fury and SHIELD going forward. The heroes already distrust Fury, but finding out that Coulson is alive would further anger and alienate them. That could provide great dramatic material for Whedon's "bringing the pain" scenario for the sequel.

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Old 01-12-2013, 08:41 PM   #998
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

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The difference here is that Spock's return was set up before he even died, when he transferred his memories into McCoy before he climbed into the reactor.
That subplot wasn't created until Trek III. In TWOK, Harve Bennett just had Spock do the mind-meld on Bones and had Spock say, "Remember." It wasn't until well after TWOK's success that Paramount even approached Nimoy about coming back, and the writers added the whole deus ex about Spock transferring his spirit into McCoy in the previous film.






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For me personally, Coulson's return doesn't bother me in that I fear no one will die in the MCU ever, but rather that Coulson's death specifically meant nothing in The Avengers. It obviously affected The Avengers in a profound enough way that they united to save the world (basically in Coulson's honor!).
Actually, it didn't. We've hashed this out quite verbally in the main Avengers thread for many, many pages back many moons ago. The only person who was visibly affected by Coulson's death, and who was manipulated by Fury into getting off his ass and "avenging" Coulson, was Tony Stark. Only. To everyone else except Thor, Coulson was peripheral at best; and Thor didn't require the death scene to motivate him into action. In fact, Thor was already on his way back into action long before even finding out that Coulson had died; as was Banner. Cap knew him only as a fairly creepy stalkerish fanboy; and it was never made clear the extent of Natasha and Clint's working relationship with Coulson ---- in any event, neither seemed particularly overwhelmed by news of Coulson's death, unlike Tony's dramatic reaction.

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Will Coulson then still be so beloved by the Avengers, or even by fans?
Yes. A thousand times, yes. Ask any fan, even right now.

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Old 01-13-2013, 05:18 PM   #999
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Buffy freakin Summers died and I already knew she was coming back before I even saw the episode. In fact she came back after one summer. Yet it still resonates with me and makes me tear up every time I rewatch the episode over a decade later. If Joss Whedon can make that work and most of all have consequences I'm sure Coulson's death and lack thereof can be done right.

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Old 01-14-2013, 12:51 AM   #1000
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Default Re: Disney/Marvel & ABC working on Avengers spin-off tv show?

Anybody else a bit annoyed that there's no Marvel SHIELD characters in this?

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