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Old 07-30-2012, 02:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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I wouldn't use the word hate....

You have one of the most powerful--if not the most powerful--and famous superheroes of all time. In all that time he really hasn't changed enough to garner any attention. To be fair, when he has changed drastically, fans scream bloody murder.

Fans know the character and care, but the GA has stopped caring about Superman because they feel they already know him and can't relate.

Quite frankly, I don't feel MOS is really going to bring that much new to the table. Come on, be honest--how much different is this film really going to be from previous films.....how much can you really get away with when it comes to changing Superman?...How many people are going to get that "been there done that" feeling from this film?

This new "take" on Superman will probably find a place with some, but others simply will not look past the fact that it's still just Superman.
Considering this movie will be based squarely on the comics, and not at all on prior movies, I think it is assuredly going to be very different for the general audience.

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Old 07-30-2012, 02:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Yeah, the thing is, they can change A LOT from the Donner films in tone and character terms, because most of the Superman comics of the last few decades don't have too much in common with them.

If MoS is based on those comics, then it has the potential to show general audiences a Superman they never knew existed. So I'd say it has a lot "new" to bring to the table.

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Old 07-30-2012, 02:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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While i'm not the biggest superman fan in the world i've come to appreciate him in a number of comics like red son and all-star and i do hope man of steel turns out great.

What i'm getting to is the fact that out of all the big superheroes i feel superman attracts the most hate from people. All over the net or wherever even random people on the street anytime superman is mentioned you'll get the people who jump up and start criticizing superman the same old he's too boring and powerful and lame etc. etc.

I wonder if the movie will find a way to get over the fact that superman has become the superhero punching bag for a number of ppl in the general audience especially in this post MCU/TDK world.
IMO, the only people criticizing Superman as being too old, boring and lame are fanboys and girls of other superheroes. For the general public, Superman is still one of the most powerful and recognisable superheroes of all time. Yes, other heroes are becoming more well known, but that doesn't lessen Superman's fame. I actually think the rise of these other heroes (who have not experienced this sort of popularity before in their history) is a good thing because good CBMs create new comic and superhero fans.

I know all of us fanboys and girls love our little rivalries, but in the scheme of things we are the only ones wondering if peope really like Superman, Batman, or Ironman better. The general public likes them all and probably doesn't spend time trying to rank them in their mind...like we do...lol

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

They certainly don't. They just want to be entertained by a fun movie.

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #30
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

I find the 'unrelatable' complaint unfounded.

I think it has more to do with current culture and social values than the character itself. Besides being strong and having all sorts of powers, Superman will always be relatable as an immigrant who has strong morals and tries to do good.

Flawed heroes aren't necessarily more relatable. They're relatable to people who are content with being flawed.

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:21 PM   #31
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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Flawed heroes aren't necessarily more relatable. They're relatable to people who are content with being flawed.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

when i hear that people say batman is more relatable

i think it says more about society in 2012 than it does about superman

are people in this day and age so cynical that a farm boy from mid west with strong morals and family values who has wanted to help people since he was a child so unrelatable?

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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when i hear that people say batman is more relatable

i think it says more about society in 2012 than it does about superman

are people in this day and age so cynical that a farm boy from mid west with strong morals and family values who has wanted to help people since he was a child so unrelatable?
Yes, it is aggravating. The world is full of cynicism today and its much easier to call everything "cheesy".

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Oh how I miss the days of sunshine lollipops and rainbows, everything that's wonderful... And the breaking out in song and dance.

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:40 PM   #35
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I don't mind as long as they aren't hypocrites. I always have to when someone says they dislike Superman because he is too overpowered and then talk about how much they love the Thor, Silver Surfer, etc.

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Old 07-30-2012, 05:56 PM   #36
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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Flawed heroes aren't necessarily more relatable. They're relatable to people who are content with being flawed.

This...

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Old 07-30-2012, 06:04 PM   #37
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

When someone says they like heroes with flaws, what flaws is it they want them to have? Routh's Superman was certainly flawed, but it sure didn't seem to please anyone.

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Old 07-30-2012, 06:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

I don't hate Superman, but I don't really like him. With that said, I'm very excited for this movie. I think I'll try to get into the character more, especially with the New 52. I pretty much hated Thor, but after watching his movie, I kinda like him now. So a really good movie can always change my opinion for a character.

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Old 07-30-2012, 09:37 PM   #39
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Sure, there are definitely people who do hate Superman for being "too perfect, lame, not that bright, a simpleton with no conflicts or problems, etc" (I see plenty of such comments on non-superhero related blogs and sites, really, we've seen them all), but for the audience in general, it's also popular right now to be into (moody and dark and angsty) anti-heroes than straighter-than-straight cookie-cutter heroes. Sadly, that's how lots of people see Superman, as the ever-smiling "goody two shoes", and it's mostly due to pop culture, and the big media push for darker heroes that are presented to us as more modern and relatable than Superman. For a long time, people have been basically programmed into liking heroes that are more like Batman (and Batman sells). It's created a big trend.

We have to remember the general audience isn't familiar with the Superman comicbook version and how complex he can really be. They don't know he can at times be an ass (oh, yes) or condescending or overprotective or too caught up in his struggles and hurt to see he can't save everyone, or too Alpha Male or too stubborn, and so on. He has his moments. He makes mistakes and he fails. He's also capable of a lot of rage that is deeply frightening to anyone around him. THESE ARE ALL GOOD THINGS, I think, because he's never been perfect in my eyes. Indeed, the man shares many character traits with Batman that make him less than perfect but the average Joe doesn't know that (not to mention, these kind of traits are what makes Batman more appealing).

They don't know about the character's struggles on a daily basis. They just know the bare basics from Superman: The Movie, and maybe a rare cartoon from childhood, and the rest is purely pop culture/internet/friends. I've lost count how many times I've seen/heard mind-boggling yet unsurprising lines like: "Well, no, I don't know really know Superman, sure, but my boyfriend told me enough about him and he said he sucks! I hate Superman!" There's quotes like that on this very board. Someone's hatred of the character being passed on and influencing another person. That person doesn't even make up their own mind about Superman or go find out more about him, no, they just accept the boyfriend's opinion as "fact".

This is more common than some people realize, perhaps. Can you tell how much this bothers me? Who says that person wouldn't have liked Superman more than, say, Batman? But now they don't because they already have negative preconceived notions about him.

Speaking of people not really knowing Superman. See, my mom's not a big fan of action films in general and can't tell superheroes apart. When she first saw a quick shot of Tobey's Spider-Man on tv one day, she turned to me and went: "Does he have that mask on all the time?" As much as fans and even directors like to say superheroes are known all around the world, and there are pissing contests about who's the most recognizable and beloved hero, not *everyone* knows about them. To some, they're just young good-looking people in colorful costumes.

It takes a good character arc and good character moments for the more "clueless" general audience to fall in love with and feel invested in a character. And right now, the media's all about "THIS IS THE KIND OF HERO YOU SHOULD ROOT FOR. THIS ONE RIGHT HERE." And most fingers point to Batman. But it could happen to Superman, too, if MOS delivers. MOS needs to open the door. People, when given the chance, can make up their own goddamn mind about superheroes.

Prefering Batman is all fine and dandy - and, hey, I love Batman - but I'm truly hoping we're not THAT stuck in this dark hero trend that there's no place for another Superman. Because I really want Superman's popularity to soar again and make a difference for future superhero films. I think people can get over the Superman hate, there just needs to be some shift in pop culture that allows people to form their own opinions about less dark characters like Superman. Not to mention, allows them their love for the character without laughing in their face or trying to influence them into liking someone else instead. Superman needs to be given a chance. People need to see who he really is as a character. Enough with the "footnotes" version the media's pushing. He's so much more than that.

Sorry for the rant!

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Old 07-30-2012, 09:37 PM   #40
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

i dont think "hate" is the right word...

i think the word "corny", "campy", or "childish" would be a better word to describe... Superman was plagued in the 50's - 90's from the CCA, or the Comics Code Authority. in the earlier days of comic books, there were no rules in which comic books had to follow, so there were a lot of horror stories, murder stories, etc, etc... plus, the Superman of the 50's and 60's was an overpowered giant, so with the disability to write certain stories, and Superman being a behemoth of a being that could blow out a galaxy like you would a candle, interesting stories become hard to make for superman... and we have all seen the ridiculous comic book covers, the comediands that made fun of superman in the 70's and 80's, even Superman III and IV...

people dont like Superman because people see him as a goody-two shoes... a push-over, or a Mr Nice Guy...

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Old 07-30-2012, 09:51 PM   #41
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

^^^

On a related note did superman ever get a year-one/the dark knight returns treatment that brought it out of the camp like miller or even neal adams/denny o'neil earlier than that perhaps did for batman?

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Old 07-30-2012, 09:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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^^^

On a related note did superman ever get a year-one/the dark knight returns treatment that brought it out of the camp like miller or even neal adams/denny o'neil earlier than that perhaps did for batman?
as far as my knowledge goes, i do not believe Superman ever did receive that treatment that batman got like he did in "TDKR"

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Old 07-30-2012, 09:56 PM   #43
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

i also think one of the problems with Superman, in today's society, is that people want to relate to him...

the problem is, though, how can you relate to a god-like superhero?

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Old 07-30-2012, 10:05 PM   #44
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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i also think one of the problems with Superman, in today's society, is that people want to relate to him...

the problem is, though, how can you relate to a god-like superhero?
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are people in this day and age so cynical that a farm boy from mid west with strong morals and family values who has wanted to help people since he was a child so unrelatable?
And here we have the difference between someone who doesn't understand the character, and someone who does.

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Old 07-30-2012, 10:13 PM   #45
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

people want to see Superman struggle with real-life issues, real-life problems, and find a way to relate to the common man...

not be the perfect, untouchable boyscout in red, yellow, and blue.

not everyone had the chance to grow up on a farm, with mid-west american morals... some kids grew up on the street, and the only thing they had close to a model was Superman. People want to see how Superman deals with certain controversial topics, like racism, terrorism, politics, relationships, religion, etc...

Superman is such a tough person to write for because of his powers.

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Old 07-30-2012, 10:46 PM   #46
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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people want to see Superman struggle with real-life issues, real-life problems, and find a way to relate to the common man...
To a certain extent, though. Probably not, for example, an ex-girlfriend moving on and having a child out of wedlock, engaged to another man.....so he uses his powers to eavesdrop on their conversation and later sneak into the kid's room....


...what's next, a tax audit?

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:53 PM   #47
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i think the word "corny", "campy", or "childish" would be a better word to describe... Superman
I don't agree with this particular statement because I think these words can be used to describe any superhero who has been portrayed in the media...not just Superman. It's all in the portrayal and the time of the portrayal.

Looking back on any thing in hindsight makes nearly everything seem corny, campy and childish.


Examples:

Spiderman TV 1977
Superman The Movie 1978
Batman 1960s
Shazam 1970s
Wonder Woman 1970s
Flash Gordon 1954 and 2007
Batman Forever 1995
Batman & Robin 1997
Superman II 1980
Lois and Clark 1990s

Just because they seem campy, corny and childish NOW does not mean they actually were at the time.

LOL...though... of course, some on these things fit those words to a "T".

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.

Last edited by charl_huntress; 07-30-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:01 PM   #48
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Superman gets these words attached to him a lot because of his long history with America, especially in the comics in the 50's, and the 70's

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Old 07-30-2012, 11:29 PM   #49
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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To a certain extent, though. Probably not, for example, an ex-girlfriend moving on and having a child out of wedlock, engaged to another man.....so he uses his powers to eavesdrop on their conversation and later sneak into the kid's room....


...what's next, a tax audit?
lol, well, i agree with that... there is indeed a fine line in which issues should be given to Superman to face.

however, though, i think, since Superman is an alien, i kinda think in this movie he should have to face up to his illegal immigrant status. i think that would be an interesting plot point for the character. it would also play in his portrayal towards other people in Metropolis, not to mention the military

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Old 07-30-2012, 11:40 PM   #50
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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Superman gets these words attached to him a lot because of his long history with America, especially in the comics in the 50's, and the 70's

Still disagree, but not like stringently....lol

I have been reading comics and following Superman for over 30 years. I have comics dating from the age of STM, though I wasn't old enough to read those comics when they were released.

Again, during those times he was not corny, campy or childish. IN hindsight and especially in comparison with MC, (which is not appropriate IMO), he may be considered that way. Still, that was NOT the way the GP viewed him at that time.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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