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Old 07-31-2012, 12:47 AM   #51
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

the whole reason Superman the Movie came out, though, was to make Superman relatable to the general public again, was it not?

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Old 07-31-2012, 12:51 AM   #52
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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the whole reason Superman the Movie came out, though, was to make Superman relatable to the general public again, was it not?

Ummm...NO. It was to make money off him.

Please remember after SIV they made Superboy in 1988 and failed and then tried again later with Lois and Clark and were very successful.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:58 AM   #53
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Please remember after SIV they made Superboy in 1988 and failed and then tried again later with Lois and Clark and were very successful.
no, that's not true at all. The Superboy series did falter in the ratings during the first season, however, after an actor change of Superboy and Lex Luthor, the ratings were great for the TV series from season 2-4.

The reason Superboy was taken off the air were for 2 reasons:

1.) there was a lein for the ownership properties to who owned the Superboy franchise and likeness thereof. After SIV, the Salkinds thought they had the rights to make a TV series, but unfortunately, they didn't.

2.) the producers did not want two Superman shows airing at the same time, for they feared that the general audience would become confused to watching two different shows.

because of these conflicts, Warner Bros was able to pull the Superboy franchise from the air at its height on syndicated television... the Salkinds were planning to do a movie tie-in to finish up the series, but was never able to make it.

i've seen the opening credits of the Superboy show for season 4... it bears an amazing and striking resemblance to the opening redits of Lois and Clark, so I am under the impression that WB stole the design logos and intro texts from the Superboy show

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:09 AM   #54
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no, that's not true at all. The Superboy series did falter in the ratings during the first season, however, after an actor change of Superboy and Lex Luthor, the ratings were great for the TV series from season 2-4.

The reason Superboy was taken off the air were for 2 reasons:

1.) there was a lein for the ownership properties to who owned the Superboy franchise and likeness thereof. After SIV, the Salkinds thought they had the rights to make a TV series, but unfortunately, they didn't.

2.) the producers did not want two Superman shows airing at the same time, for they feared that the general audience would become confused to watching two different shows.

because of these conflicts, Warner Bros was able to pull the Superboy franchise from the air at its height on syndicated television... the Salkinds were planning to do a movie tie-in to finish up the series, but was never able to make it.

i've seen the opening credits of the Superboy show for season 4... it bears an amazing and striking resemblance to the opening redits of Lois and Clark, so I am under the impression that WB stole the design logos and intro texts from the Superboy show
Why do you think they kept Superboy on the air after it faltered so badly in the first two seasons? And this is not just late hype....the show got VERY bad reviews for its time.

Yet, WB/DC kep it FOR the money.....It did actually make money.

Also, why do you think they blantanly copied some of Superboys intro....????

For the money.....

I fail to see how you cannot see this, but you lost me TOTALLY when you attempted to argue the merits of Superboy.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:48 AM   #55
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Superboy was a show based in action/science fiction.
Lois and Clark was a romantic comedy.

Superboy did well enough to have a possibly a tie-in tv movie.
Lois and Clark tanked in the fourth season because of its ratings, and was never renewed for a fifth season.

and for the record, it didn't "falter" after the second season... it's third and fourth season were the seasons which got its highest ratings, and it actually got good ratings, not bad ratings... and actually, i stand corrected, as Salkind had planned two more seasons for the tv series. The Adventures of Superboy had high ratings all-throughout its remaining two seasons, and the biggest reason it was pulled because of the lien.

there was a LOT of merit to the Superboy TV series, as it was a very good tv series- and there is a lot more going for it than the Lois and Clark show , which was cancelled due to terrible ratings and poor storyline. Superboy was never cancelled because of poor ratings, or poor storylines... it was cancelled because of the lien with WB and the fact that WB did NOT want two Superman shows being aired at the same time.

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Old 07-31-2012, 02:04 AM   #56
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Superboy was a show based in action/science fiction. Lois and Clark was a romantic comedy.
Yep, but if you look at some of the story lines from both shows....there are A LOT of similarites. Many more similarities then people would like to admit. One of the shows creators was A FANGIRL of Superboy, Deborah Joy LeVine. Also, Lois N' Clark is an action/science fiction show. However, another main focus is the romance between Supes/Lois and Clark, which is why the show is called Lois and Clark!

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Superboy did well enough to have a possibly a tie-in tv movie.Lois and Clark tanked in the fourth season because of its ratings, and was never renewed for a fifth season.
OK...stop the hatred for Lois and Clark.

Lois and Clark was suddenly cancelled after ABC said they would have a fifth season. The ratings for the fourth season were not as good in comparison to the earlier seasons, but the ratings were still strong. ABC was going to renew the show, but they changed their mind's based off the cost and rising actor salaries (both Cain and Hatcher wanted more money). The problem...like all Superman shows...is the cost didn't add up. That's always a tough call when you have worry about laser beams shooting from the eyes.

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there was a LOT of merit to the Superboy TV series, as it was a very good tv series- and there is a lot more going for it than the Lois and Clark show , which was cancelled due to terrible ratings and poor storyline. Superboy was never cancelled because of poor ratings, or poor storylines... it was cancelled because of the lien with WB and the fact that WB did NOT want two Superman shows being aired at the same time.
We disagree about Lois and Clark and I do not believe you know your facts in this case. Yet, my whole point was Superboy can be and IS called corny, campy and childish based on his ONE live action TV show. I am simply saying that calling Superman the same is just as corny, silly, childish and stupid.....

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:09 AM   #57
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

and yet superman still gets called childish, campy, corny, silly, and on some points, even stupid...

mostly because he no longer relates to people anymore.

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Old 07-31-2012, 02:13 AM   #58
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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and yet superman still gets called childish, campy, corny, silly, and on some points, even stupid...

mostly because he no longer relates to people anymore.

Mostly because those people are idiots fanboys and girls who do not like Superman. The general public is NOT saying this. Google any TOP SUPERHERO POLL in the last ten years and you will still see Superman near the TOP!!!!!!

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:08 PM   #59
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and yet superman still gets called childish, campy, corny, silly, and on some points, even stupid...

mostly because he no longer relates to people anymore.
Well....it seems that Supes was always less about relating to, and more about aspiring to as an ideal and, yes, perhaps an ultimately unattainable package of perfection. It's really more about him having more power and ability than anyone to do whatever he wants, yet he chooses to help people with it. Maybe not relatable as a person or something that we would do...but the important thing is why.

I think the key is to maintain that dynamic of being more aspiration than identifiability...but to portray that as something that even people in today's society would find inspirational. I think the way to do that is to set up conflicts and contexts that are much more in line with today's sensibiltiies...i.e., they need to make the story and stakes more relatable, and not just some idealized structure like ages past where Superman predictably comes in and saves the day...because that's how these things go, and so on. It's okay to introduce elements of moral ambiguity and iconoclasm...it's all around us in our own real world. But if you believe that such conditions can benefit even more from a simpler, more resolute moral outlook...then that's what Superman must represent...not old-school, but the importance of absolution and solidarity as a concept and a virtue in a crazy world.

I said it before that Superman the character does not need to change...it's the stories you put him in and the experience of Superman being Superman that needs updating. If they do that well, I doubt that the character's 'relatability' will be an issue. Wolverine or Batman may be more 'relatable' to some, but if you put them in a square story, they become boring too.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)

Last edited by KalMart; 07-31-2012 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:15 PM   #60
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

I used to hate Superman....

...I'm more than over it. I am so excited for Man of Steel.

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:32 PM   #61
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I used to hate Superman....

...I'm more than over it. I am so excited for Man of Steel.
What did you hate about him? What makes you excited for MOS?

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Old 07-31-2012, 02:35 PM   #62
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Will Nolan's name as a producer draw in audience that would normally avoid Superman movies ?

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Old 07-31-2012, 02:47 PM   #63
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Will Nolan's name as a producer draw in audience that would normally avoid Superman movies ?
It'll probably help, yeah.

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Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:55 PM   #64
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

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Will Nolan's name as a producer draw in audience that would normally avoid Superman movies ?
Most likely anyone who enjoyed any of his Batman movies will at least be paying attention to it now.

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Old 07-31-2012, 03:36 PM   #65
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

"Superhate"? You mean "ignorance" and "a lack of imagination"?

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Old 07-31-2012, 03:40 PM   #66
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"Superhate"? You mean "ignorance" and "a lack of imagination"?
That's more like it.

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Old 07-31-2012, 03:55 PM   #67
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Can't put all the blame on the audience. The playing field has evolved quite a bit around him over the years as well.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)

Last edited by KalMart; 07-31-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:01 PM   #68
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Can't put all the blame on the audience. The paying field has evolved quite a bit around him over the years as well.
No doubt.

At the same time, I love when people tried to tell me about Superman without having ever read a single comic. Really, it's the price of being arguably the greatest pop culture icon.

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Old 07-31-2012, 04:03 PM   #69
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No doubt.

At the same time, I love when people tried to tell me about Superman without having ever read a single comic. Really, it's the price of being arguably the greatest pop culture icon.
Icon for some, maybe just a familiar brand for others.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:10 PM   #70
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Icon for some, maybe just a familiar brand for others.
I didn't mean icon as in some form of idolatry. I meant it as in the way that Mickey Mouse is an icon -- extremely recognizable and known (to whatever degree). You don't have to be a fan of either character to see that.

Regardless, even being a brand means that his impact on popular culture transcends that a typical character. His symbol alone stands for more than him.

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Old 07-31-2012, 04:13 PM   #71
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

I think the only people that have a problem with going to see a Superman movie or have issues with the character are the fanboy that doesn't like him to begin with or the GA member that didn't like SR. Most movie goers will go to any movie they catch wind of being good regardless of who the protagonist is.

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Old 07-31-2012, 04:15 PM   #72
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Most likely anyone who enjoyed any of his Batman movies will at least be paying attention to it now.
If Nolan was directing too people would already be talking about how its a masterpiece despite being a year away from its release

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Old 07-31-2012, 04:17 PM   #73
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I didn't mean icon as in some form of idolatry. I meant it as in the way that Mickey Mouse is an icon -- extremely recognizable and known (to whatever degree). You don't have to be a fan of either character to see that.

Regardless, even being a brand means that his impact on popular culture transcends that a typical character. His symbol alone stands for more than him.
But I don't think Mickey exists in the kind of competitive atmosphere that Superman does these days. So his 'iconography' is probably more secure than Supes' is.....and his fall in popularity isn't exactly a 'cost' of it, it's more about the perception of being surpassed by the concept, even if he helped create it way back when.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:19 PM   #74
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Default Re: Will people get over the super hate?

Nah, I think the Superman logo is just as recognizable as Mickey's silhouette worldwide.

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Old 07-31-2012, 04:24 PM   #75
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But I don't think Mickey exists in the kind of competitive atmosphere that Superman does these days. So his 'iconography' is probably more secure than Supes' is.....and his fall in popularity isn't exactly a 'cost' of it, it's more about the perception of being surpassed by the concept, even if he helped create it way back when.
I think you're over thinking it a bit. In comics and now superhero films, sure, competition is factor but in general popular culture, Superman is near the top if not on top. I would say is he is definitely far above any superhero in terms of pop culture standing.

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