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View Poll Results: When will the fans turn on TDK Trilogy in Mass?
When a reboot or JL film is announced 32 39.51%
When we get a poster/stills of the reboot/JL film 11 13.58%
The new Trailer(s) 20 24.69%
Week of Release 18 22.22%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-19-2013, 02:17 AM   #601
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
Its been awhile since I've seen BB so I could be wrong. As I understood it, in BB the idea was of creating a symbol that people could be inspired by. Bruce realized that just being Bruce Wayne wouldn't work and so he had to create something bigger...hence why he created the Batman persona. Was it referred to in BB that Batman could be anyone? In TDKR he clearly states that to Blake, but I don't recall that in BB or in TDK. I could be wrong though.
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Originally Posted by milost View Post
Nope, he never says that.
It's still not exactly a foreign concept based on his goals as stated in BB. He talks about people needing dramatic examples to be shaken out of apathy and such.

It's inherent to the anonymity that comes with being a symbol that the good people of Gotham would get the sense that "one of them" was taking action. They don't know who it is, therefore Batman could be anybody. And that inevitably adds to the inspiration factor. It's not that he wants everyone to take arms and join his crusade (obviously not, TDK makes that clear), he wants to show people that good can prevail over evil in Gotham, and get the good people to be less apathetic and more in touch with their inner hero.

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Old 05-19-2013, 04:23 PM   #602
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
I hope you turned on TDKR the minute you finished watching the film. Turning on the film the minute you saw it sounds unfair
Touche.

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Old 05-20-2013, 10:58 PM   #603
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The contrarian retro-active growing disdain for not just Nolan but his TDK trilogy is ridiculous, and extremely distasteful.

This guy elevated the genre to heights, and levels of respect it never would have achieved otherwise. And has YET to reach since. With Burton / Shumacher, those films had actual issues and problems as films and among the fans of the mythos.

Nolan didn't have a single issue in his films that made me upset in retrospect. In fact, my love for them has grown. And I am becoming even more fiercely defensive of them with the growing illogical hate brigade.

This isn't just easily the best superhero / comic book trilogy of all-time, it's arguably the best trilogy period. There are no Godfather III, or watered down Jar Jar Binks caliber Ewoks moments here.

Regardless if it wasn't the film YOU were expecting, TDK Rises was quality. It is a ballsy and intelligent deliberate conclusion to a story. The issues people have aren't even as bad as made out to be. No one holds the same level of scrutiny they did to TDK Rises as they do for other films. Plot holes, not as many as you think. Most explained in dialogue, or can be easily rationalized. For instance, the doctor didn't punch Bruce's back after being broke and then it was healed. He knocked a bulging disc back into place, that isn't that out of the realm of possibility.

Batman isn't taken or used out of character. He has retired and come back before in the most acclaimed Batman story. He's also given up the reigns of his legacy to someone else. Difference? Comics go on forever and maintain status quo and tread water. The characters of Robin / Nightwing / Batgirl ... what are those? Chosen heirs to his legacy. The brilliantly written John "Robin" Blake character is a tremendous amalgamation of those characters.

The hate for these films are absurd. BEGINS gave you a classic superhero origin, deconstructing the psychology of a modern myth / legend. It delivered theatrical Batman, gritty with elements of gothic surrealism seen in greater doses in previous films. Adapting seminal stories like Year One, Man Who Falls, and various 70's Ra's Al Ghul tales. Channeling the spirit of 1939 Batman and his war on organized crime. The Dark Knight, standing as a movie head and shoulders above all it's contemporaries (easily), gave you the best of: The Man Who Laughs, Killing Joke, and most importantly The Long Halloween. The Dark Knight Rises, even with it's at times sloppy narrative (well, it's an EPIC so it's forgiven) ... gives fans No Man's Land, Knightfall and a contemporary believable adaptation of TDK Returns.

All while being unique stories, and films. Incredible performances, tremendous and iconic / haunting visuals. Touched on a number of sociological and psychological issues. The best post 9/11 generational films. Zeitgeist caliber stuff. The fact that anyone would hate on this films is a disrespect to the character, the genre (comics in general), and films.

Even if you don't like them, I know their of great quality. And at the end of the day, these will always be "my" Batman films. But the rising hate for these films is totally distasteful.

Nolan and co. took the credibility of these films to heights never seen before, and maybe never seen again. At least I will always be around to protect these films from the mistaken contrarians.

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Old 05-20-2013, 11:04 PM   #604
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

OPINIONS.....are neither right or wrong...so they can't be a mistake....they are opinions.

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Old 05-20-2013, 11:13 PM   #605
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I voted for week of release. Most people have a "recent-film" bias.

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Old 05-20-2013, 11:15 PM   #606
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

Not really.

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Old 05-20-2013, 11:22 PM   #607
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NolanDCU View Post
The contrarian retro-active growing disdain for not just Nolan but his TDK trilogy is ridiculous, and extremely distasteful.

This guy elevated the genre to heights, and levels of respect it never would have achieved otherwise. And has YET to reach since. With Burton / Shumacher, those films had actual issues and problems as films and among the fans of the mythos.

Nolan didn't have a single issue in his films that made me upset in retrospect. In fact, my love for them has grown. And I am becoming even more fiercely defensive of them with the growing illogical hate brigade.

This isn't just easily the best superhero / comic book trilogy of all-time, it's arguably the best trilogy period. There are no Godfather III, or watered down Jar Jar Binks caliber Ewoks moments here.

Regardless if it wasn't the film YOU were expecting, TDK Rises was quality. It is a ballsy and intelligent deliberate conclusion to a story. The issues people have aren't even as bad as made out to be. No one holds the same level of scrutiny they did to TDK Rises as they do for other films. Plot holes, not as many as you think. Most explained in dialogue, or can be easily rationalized. For instance, the doctor didn't punch Bruce's back after being broke and then it was healed. He knocked a bulging disc back into place, that isn't that out of the realm of possibility.

Batman isn't taken or used out of character. He has retired and come back before in the most acclaimed Batman story. He's also given up the reigns of his legacy to someone else. Difference? Comics go on forever and maintain status quo and tread water. The characters of Robin / Nightwing / Batgirl ... what are those? Chosen heirs to his legacy. The brilliantly written John "Robin" Blake character is a tremendous amalgamation of those characters.

The hate for these films are absurd. BEGINS gave you a classic superhero origin, deconstructing the psychology of a modern myth / legend. It delivered theatrical Batman, gritty with elements of gothic surrealism seen in greater doses in previous films. Adapting seminal stories like Year One, Man Who Falls, and various 70's Ra's Al Ghul tales. Channeling the spirit of 1939 Batman and his war on organized crime. The Dark Knight, standing as a movie head and shoulders above all it's contemporaries (easily), gave you the best of: The Man Who Laughs, Killing Joke, and most importantly The Long Halloween. The Dark Knight Rises, even with it's at times sloppy narrative (well, it's an EPIC so it's forgiven) ... gives fans No Man's Land, Knightfall and a contemporary believable adaptation of TDK Returns.

All while being unique stories, and films. Incredible performances, tremendous and iconic / haunting visuals. Touched on a number of sociological and psychological issues. The best post 9/11 generational films. Zeitgeist caliber stuff. The fact that anyone would hate on this films is a disrespect to the character, the genre (comics in general), and films.

Even if you don't like them, I know their of great quality. And at the end of the day, these will always be "my" Batman films. But the rising hate for these films is totally distasteful.

Nolan and co. took the credibility of these films to heights never seen before, and maybe never seen again. At least I will always be around to protect these films from the mistaken contrarians.
If anything, the people who don't like TDKR have grown to appreciate BB/TDK more.

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Old 05-20-2013, 11:42 PM   #608
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NolanDCU View Post
The contrarian retro-active growing disdain for not just Nolan but his TDK trilogy is ridiculous, and extremely distasteful.

This guy elevated the genre to heights, and levels of respect it never would have achieved otherwise. And has YET to reach since. With Burton / Shumacher, those films had actual issues and problems as films and among the fans of the mythos.

Nolan didn't have a single issue in his films that made me upset in retrospect. In fact, my love for them has grown. And I am becoming even more fiercely defensive of them with the growing illogical hate brigade.

This isn't just easily the best superhero / comic book trilogy of all-time, it's arguably the best trilogy period. There are no Godfather III, or watered down Jar Jar Binks caliber Ewoks moments here.

Regardless if it wasn't the film YOU were expecting, TDK Rises was quality. It is a ballsy and intelligent deliberate conclusion to a story. The issues people have aren't even as bad as made out to be. No one holds the same level of scrutiny they did to TDK Rises as they do for other films. Plot holes, not as many as you think. Most explained in dialogue, or can be easily rationalized. For instance, the doctor didn't punch Bruce's back after being broke and then it was healed. He knocked a bulging disc back into place, that isn't that out of the realm of possibility.

Batman isn't taken or used out of character. He has retired and come back before in the most acclaimed Batman story. He's also given up the reigns of his legacy to someone else. Difference? Comics go on forever and maintain status quo and tread water. The characters of Robin / Nightwing / Batgirl ... what are those? Chosen heirs to his legacy. The brilliantly written John "Robin" Blake character is a tremendous amalgamation of those characters.

The hate for these films are absurd. BEGINS gave you a classic superhero origin, deconstructing the psychology of a modern myth / legend. It delivered theatrical Batman, gritty with elements of gothic surrealism seen in greater doses in previous films. Adapting seminal stories like Year One, Man Who Falls, and various 70's Ra's Al Ghul tales. Channeling the spirit of 1939 Batman and his war on organized crime. The Dark Knight, standing as a movie head and shoulders above all it's contemporaries (easily), gave you the best of: The Man Who Laughs, Killing Joke, and most importantly The Long Halloween. The Dark Knight Rises, even with it's at times sloppy narrative (well, it's an EPIC so it's forgiven) ... gives fans No Man's Land, Knightfall and a contemporary believable adaptation of TDK Returns.

All while being unique stories, and films. Incredible performances, tremendous and iconic / haunting visuals. Touched on a number of sociological and psychological issues. The best post 9/11 generational films. Zeitgeist caliber stuff. The fact that anyone would hate on this films is a disrespect to the character, the genre (comics in general), and films.

Even if you don't like them, I know their of great quality. And at the end of the day, these will always be "my" Batman films. But the rising hate for these films is totally distasteful.

Nolan and co. took the credibility of these films to heights never seen before, and maybe never seen again. At least I will always be around to protect these films from the mistaken contrarians.

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Old 05-21-2013, 12:32 AM   #609
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by NolanDCU View Post
But the rising hate for these films is totally distasteful.
That's something that you'll only really see around these parts, or other internet forums. The general public adores this trilogy. -- (Can't wait for someone to pop in and say that's not true and I can't speak for the general public) -- I haven't seen or heard any of the immense complains that I've read here anywhere else. I saw TDKR on five separate occasions in theaters, with different crowds and different groups of friends, all seemingly well satisfied and some saying it was the best of the trilogy.

Now, in terms of the more die-hard fans here at the Hype...yeah, some of them have said some pretty harsh things about TDKR. Some of certainly "turned on Nolan", in a sense. But, as far as I've noticed, it's mostly the same 8-12 Hypsters leveling the same complaints over and over again, which they have every right to do. Are some of their complaints about TDKR justified? Sure, I can admit that. It's not exactly the "tightest" movie ever made. There's a lot going on in it, a lot of ground covered. Some elements could have been stronger, or altered. Also, as we know, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, especially when it comes to an art form.

Do I think some of their complaints are a little absurd? Yeah, especially when compared to the other films in the trilogy. "In my opinion", it's pretty hard to justify that TDKR is the huge plunge in quality compared to TDK that some Hypesters make it out to be. With the way I've seen people discuss how much better TDK is compared to TDKR, you'd think they were comparing The Godfather Part II with Showgirls. I mean, some people think Nolan screwed it up really, really badly. Meanwhile, I think Batman Begins (which I also love) shares many of the same faults that I see people tossing at TDKR, and to me, those faults are even more glaring in BB -- lazy writing, unimpressive action sequences, a bit of bad editing, and some of the most lousy one-liners of the series.

Like I said, film is subjective, so anyone is welcome to hate TDKR and criticize Nolan for his work. However, what bothers me the most is seeing those same people (who openly admit they were very unhappy with TDKR) belittle the folks who love the film, as if the TDKR fans are sheep who will accept any drivel that is tossed their way. That **** is getting real old fast, and it's kept me out of the TDKR forums for the most part for some time.

But in the "real world" outside of these forums, I think it's safe to say this trilogy is beloved by most. And before someone asks me for proof of that, I have none...it's just obvious. TDK is the shining film in this trilogy, for sure, but the other two aren't far behind in my eyes or the eyes of the critics who reviewed the films -- BB: 85%, TDKR 87% RT ratings

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Old 05-21-2013, 02:04 AM   #610
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NolanDCU View Post
The contrarian retro-active growing disdain for not just Nolan but his TDK trilogy is ridiculous, and extremely distasteful.

This guy elevated the genre to heights, and levels of respect it never would have achieved otherwise. And has YET to reach since. With Burton / Shumacher, those films had actual issues and problems as films and among the fans of the mythos.

Nolan didn't have a single issue in his films that made me upset in retrospect. In fact, my love for them has grown. And I am becoming even more fiercely defensive of them with the growing illogical hate brigade.

This isn't just easily the best superhero / comic book trilogy of all-time, it's arguably the best trilogy period. There are no Godfather III, or watered down Jar Jar Binks caliber Ewoks moments here.

Regardless if it wasn't the film YOU were expecting, TDK Rises was quality. It is a ballsy and intelligent deliberate conclusion to a story. The issues people have aren't even as bad as made out to be. No one holds the same level of scrutiny they did to TDK Rises as they do for other films. Plot holes, not as many as you think. Most explained in dialogue, or can be easily rationalized. For instance, the doctor didn't punch Bruce's back after being broke and then it was healed. He knocked a bulging disc back into place, that isn't that out of the realm of possibility.

Batman isn't taken or used out of character. He has retired and come back before in the most acclaimed Batman story. He's also given up the reigns of his legacy to someone else. Difference? Comics go on forever and maintain status quo and tread water. The characters of Robin / Nightwing / Batgirl ... what are those? Chosen heirs to his legacy. The brilliantly written John "Robin" Blake character is a tremendous amalgamation of those characters.

The hate for these films are absurd. BEGINS gave you a classic superhero origin, deconstructing the psychology of a modern myth / legend. It delivered theatrical Batman, gritty with elements of gothic surrealism seen in greater doses in previous films. Adapting seminal stories like Year One, Man Who Falls, and various 70's Ra's Al Ghul tales. Channeling the spirit of 1939 Batman and his war on organized crime. The Dark Knight, standing as a movie head and shoulders above all it's contemporaries (easily), gave you the best of: The Man Who Laughs, Killing Joke, and most importantly The Long Halloween. The Dark Knight Rises, even with it's at times sloppy narrative (well, it's an EPIC so it's forgiven) ... gives fans No Man's Land, Knightfall and a contemporary believable adaptation of TDK Returns.

All while being unique stories, and films. Incredible performances, tremendous and iconic / haunting visuals. Touched on a number of sociological and psychological issues. The best post 9/11 generational films. Zeitgeist caliber stuff. The fact that anyone would hate on this films is a disrespect to the character, the genre (comics in general), and films.

Even if you don't like them, I know their of great quality. And at the end of the day, these will always be "my" Batman films. But the rising hate for these films is totally distasteful.

Nolan and co. took the credibility of these films to heights never seen before, and maybe never seen again. At least I will always be around to protect these films from the mistaken contrarians.




The problem with all this is that nobody is complaining about the "Dark Knight Trilogy" or Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. You're simply lumping them together when you shouldn't.

You say "films" when it's really just a film, which is TDKR. The complaints are directly pointed towards TDKR and TDKR alone. Just because folks don't like TDKR doesn't mean they've "turned on Nolan" or on his Batman films. That's nonsense and petty. You're also 100% wrong about fans being contrarian for the sake of it. They're not allowed to have a bone to pick? Just because not everyone is drinking the kool-aid doesn't mean that they're being "distasteful". Understand that. We're all entitled to our opinions.


Like JackWhite stated, if anything it's made people appreciate Begins and the Dark Knight even more. I just watched Batman Begins the other night and man, it's still great stuff. It feels so far removed from what we got last year that it's actually gratifying. I view it in the same light I viewed it in 2005 when there weren't "John Blakes", "Talias" and "Banes" running around in our minds.

TDKR? Not so much. In fact, I'd go as far as saying TDKR "perverts" all those nice little moments from the first two films with it's "full circle" nonsense of mirroring scenes. It couldn't find it's own story. All the original moments from film 1 and film 2 are much, much better in my opinion. Wayne climbing down into the cave and embracing his fear is much better than seeing the annoying newcomer, John Blake try and reenact the same feeling. The same holds true for all the other forced "symbolic" sequences that make up TDKR in a desperate attempt to tie everything together instead of making another unique entry.


I'll take a Bruce sitting in his study pouring over pics and information of allies and enemies over "pajama Bruce" from TDKR any day. Same holds true for Batman who is truly a "Dark Knight" in film two, but anything but by TDKR.





Quote:
Originally Posted by NolanDCU View Post
Nolan and co. took the credibility of these films to heights never seen before, and maybe never seen again. At least I will always be around to protect these films from the mistaken contrarians.


With an attitude like that, I wouldn't count on it. Not on this message board anyway.



Having a certain view or feelings on a particular film or subject matter that are different from your own isn't a "mistake".


Last edited by milost; 05-21-2013 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:22 AM   #611
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

I dont think its so much a disdain for the trilogy but a vocal group with disdain for Nolan's work (this started to become very apparent after tdk was released and then was very clear with Inception). That goes hand to hand with success. Even more with such a "strange" phenomenon like him. It its justified ? It depends from person to person. When its strictly critical its perfectly normal. This trilogy is far from perfect.

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Old 05-21-2013, 07:43 AM   #612
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NolanDCU View Post
The contrarian retro-active growing disdain for not just Nolan but his TDK trilogy is ridiculous, and extremely distasteful.

This guy elevated the genre to heights, and levels of respect it never would have achieved otherwise. And has YET to reach since. With Burton / Shumacher, those films had actual issues and problems as films and among the fans of the mythos.

Nolan didn't have a single issue in his films that made me upset in retrospect. In fact, my love for them has grown. And I am becoming even more fiercely defensive of them with the growing illogical hate brigade.

This isn't just easily the best superhero / comic book trilogy of all-time, it's arguably the best trilogy period. There are no Godfather III, or watered down Jar Jar Binks caliber Ewoks moments here.

Regardless if it wasn't the film YOU were expecting, TDK Rises was quality. It is a ballsy and intelligent deliberate conclusion to a story. The issues people have aren't even as bad as made out to be. No one holds the same level of scrutiny they did to TDK Rises as they do for other films. Plot holes, not as many as you think. Most explained in dialogue, or can be easily rationalized. For instance, the doctor didn't punch Bruce's back after being broke and then it was healed. He knocked a bulging disc back into place, that isn't that out of the realm of possibility.

Batman isn't taken or used out of character. He has retired and come back before in the most acclaimed Batman story. He's also given up the reigns of his legacy to someone else. Difference? Comics go on forever and maintain status quo and tread water. The characters of Robin / Nightwing / Batgirl ... what are those? Chosen heirs to his legacy. The brilliantly written John "Robin" Blake character is a tremendous amalgamation of those characters.

The hate for these films are absurd. BEGINS gave you a classic superhero origin, deconstructing the psychology of a modern myth / legend. It delivered theatrical Batman, gritty with elements of gothic surrealism seen in greater doses in previous films. Adapting seminal stories like Year One, Man Who Falls, and various 70's Ra's Al Ghul tales. Channeling the spirit of 1939 Batman and his war on organized crime. The Dark Knight, standing as a movie head and shoulders above all it's contemporaries (easily), gave you the best of: The Man Who Laughs, Killing Joke, and most importantly The Long Halloween. The Dark Knight Rises, even with it's at times sloppy narrative (well, it's an EPIC so it's forgiven) ... gives fans No Man's Land, Knightfall and a contemporary believable adaptation of TDK Returns.

All while being unique stories, and films. Incredible performances, tremendous and iconic / haunting visuals. Touched on a number of sociological and psychological issues. The best post 9/11 generational films. Zeitgeist caliber stuff. The fact that anyone would hate on this films is a disrespect to the character, the genre (comics in general), and films.

Even if you don't like them, I know their of great quality. And at the end of the day, these will always be "my" Batman films. But the rising hate for these films is totally distasteful.

Nolan and co. took the credibility of these films to heights never seen before, and maybe never seen again. At least I will always be around to protect these films from the mistaken contrarians.
Spot on mate. I don't care from the haters and nor should we. Explaining why we love this trilogy to these people is like talking to a brick wall. Hey I just want to talk to others that love this trilogy but talk always gets in the way of people that hate it. Its just one mean circle. I don't have any problem with anything from this trilogy but for some that gets them riled up. I just can't get enough of this trilogy.
Why should I, a batfan on a batforum prove why I love these films to people that hate them. And if I praise Nolan for making my favorite trilogy I get called a Nolanite.

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Old 05-21-2013, 07:46 AM   #613
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I also love the old four films aswell.

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Old 05-21-2013, 08:54 AM   #614
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OPINIONS.....are neither right or wrong...so they can't be a mistake....they are opinions.
Well then, let's just hope nobody jumps on NolanDCU for expressing HIS opinion.

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Old 05-21-2013, 09:03 AM   #615
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by milost View Post
The problem with all this is that nobody is complaining about the "Dark Knight Trilogy" or Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. You're simply lumping them together when you shouldn't.

You say "films" when it's really just a film, which is TDKR. The complaints are directly pointed towards TDKR and TDKR alone. Just because folks don't like TDKR doesn't mean they've "turned on Nolan" or on his Batman films. That's nonsense and petty. You're also 100% wrong about fans being contrarian for the sake of it. They're not allowed to have a bone to pick? Just because not everyone is drinking the kool-aid doesn't mean that they're being "distasteful". Understand that. We're all entitled to our opinions.


Like JackWhite stated, if anything it's made people appreciate Begins and the Dark Knight even more. I just watched Batman Begins the other night and man, it's still great stuff. It feels so far removed from what we got last year that it's actually gratifying. I view it in the same light I viewed it in 2005 when there weren't "John Blakes", "Talias" and "Banes" running around in our minds.

TDKR? Not so much. In fact, I'd go as far as saying TDKR "perverts" all those nice little moments from the first two films with it's "full circle" nonsense of mirroring scenes. It couldn't find it's own story. All the original moments from film 1 and film 2 are much, much better in my opinion. Wayne climbing down into the cave and embracing his fear is much better than seeing the annoying newcomer, John Blake try and reenact the same feeling. The same holds true for all the other forced "symbolic" sequences that make up TDKR in a desperate attempt to tie everything together instead of making another unique entry.


I'll take a Bruce sitting in his study pouring over pics and information of allies and enemies over "pajama Bruce" from TDKR any day. Same holds true for Batman who is truly a "Dark Knight" in film two, but anything but by TDKR.

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Old 05-21-2013, 09:08 AM   #616
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by BatmanBeyond View Post
Well then, let's just hope nobody jumps on NolanDCU for expressing HIS opinion.
If he only expressed his opinion that the movies were great...there would have been no response from me...but when he adds that those with a contrary view are wrong...then he stepped over the line.

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Old 05-21-2013, 09:19 AM   #617
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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If he only expressed his opinion that the movies were great...there would have been no response from me...but when he adds that those with a contrary view are wrong...then he stepped over the line.
Point taken.

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That's something that you'll only really see around these parts, or other internet forums. The general public adores this trilogy. -- (Can't wait for someone to pop in and say that's not true and I can't speak for the general public) -- I haven't seen or heard any of the immense complains that I've read here anywhere else. I saw TDKR on five separate occasions in theaters, with different crowds and different groups of friends, all seemingly well satisfied and some saying it was the best of the trilogy.

Now, in terms of the more die-hard fans here at the Hype...yeah, some of them have said some pretty harsh things about TDKR. Some of certainly "turned on Nolan", in a sense. But, as far as I've noticed, it's mostly the same 8-12 Hypsters leveling the same complaints over and over again, which they have every right to do. Are some of their complaints about TDKR justified? Sure, I can admit that. It's not exactly the "tightest" movie ever made. There's a lot going on in it, a lot of ground covered. Some elements could have been stronger, or altered. Also, as we know, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, especially when it comes to an art form.

Do I think some of their complaints are a little absurd? Yeah, especially when compared to the other films in the trilogy. "In my opinion", it's pretty hard to justify that TDKR is the huge plunge in quality compared to TDK that some Hypesters make it out to be. With the way I've seen people discuss how much better TDK is compared to TDKR, you'd think they were comparing The Godfather Part II with Showgirls. I mean, some people think Nolan screwed it up really, really badly. Meanwhile, I think Batman Begins (which I also love) shares many of the same faults that I see people tossing at TDKR, and to me, those faults are even more glaring in BB -- lazy writing, unimpressive action sequences, a bit of bad editing, and some of the most lousy one-liners of the series.

Like I said, film is subjective, so anyone is welcome to hate TDKR and criticize Nolan for his work. However, what bothers me the most is seeing those same people (who openly admit they were very unhappy with TDKR) belittle the folks who love the film, as if the TDKR fans are sheep who will accept any drivel that is tossed their way. That **** is getting real old fast, and it's kept me out of the TDKR forums for the most part for some time.

But in the "real world" outside of these forums, I think it's safe to say this trilogy is beloved by most. And before someone asks me for proof of that, I have none...it's just obvious. TDK is the shining film in this trilogy, for sure, but the other two aren't far behind in my eyes or the eyes of the critics who reviewed the films -- BB: 85%, TDKR 87% RT ratings
This, especially the bolded part. Great post all around though, theShape.

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Old 05-21-2013, 09:52 AM   #618
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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The problem with all this is that nobody is complaining about the "Dark Knight Trilogy" or Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. You're simply lumping them together when you shouldn't.
There's all different types of 'haters' out there when it comes to these movies.

The backlash started before Rises came out. TDK was the poster child for "overrated", and everything seemed to be about finding ways to knock the film down a peg. It was kind of a bummer, but that's what happens when something gets called "perfect" or "masterpiece". People have to prove that they're smarter and can see all its flaws.

To me, that's really what the backlash is all about. Something becoming huge and popular (TDK), receiving high acclaim and some fans needing to feel cool and "ahead of the curve" in order to feel ownership of the thing they love again, which is Batman. Mixed in with that is probably some resentment of the whole realistic take on the Batman mythos.

The thing is, most of the people remaining on these boards are true BB and TDK fans like you said. But this was not the case before Rises came out when you had a much bigger crowd here with all sorts of fans. There's also a sizable chunk of fandom that prefers BB to TDK, and a lot of those folks also tend to prefer TDKR to TDK because they actually wanted elements of BB to be revisited.

So yeah, I definitely consider people who just don't like TDKR to be in a separate camp altogether.

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TDKR? Not so much. In fact, I'd go as far as saying TDKR "perverts" all those nice little moments from the first two films with it's "full circle" nonsense of mirroring scenes. It couldn't find it's own story. All the original moments from film 1 and film 2 are much, much better in my opinion. Wayne climbing down into the cave and embracing his fear is much better than seeing the annoying newcomer, John Blake try and reenact the same feeling. The same holds true for all the other forced "symbolic" sequences that make up TDKR in a desperate attempt to tie everything together instead of making another unique entry.
See, I don't think it's supposed to be the same feeling at all. For me it creates a completely different feeling, for many many reasons. If that's perverting the original scene to you, then fair play, but I thought it was beautiful. Scenes don't exist in a vacuum, they're connected to what's preceeding and proceeding them.

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Old 05-21-2013, 10:23 AM   #619
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Like I said, film is subjective, so anyone is welcome to hate TDKR and criticize Nolan for his work. However, what bothers me the most is seeing those same people (who openly admit they were very unhappy with TDKR) belittle the folks who love the film, as if the TDKR fans are sheep who will accept any drivel that is tossed their way. That **** is getting real old fast, and it's kept me out of the TDKR forums for the most part for some time.
To be fair, those of us who don't like TDKR don't also liked to be belittled as if the only reason we didn't like the film is because it wasn't "TDK 2.0", which seemed to be a growing perception around here.

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Old 05-21-2013, 10:25 AM   #620
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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To be fair, those of us who don't like TDKR don't also liked to be belittled as if the only reason we didn't like the film is because it wasn't "TDK 2.0", which seemed to be a growing perception around here.
A false unfounded perception by about three people. Take no notice.

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Old 05-21-2013, 11:40 AM   #621
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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To be fair, those of us who don't like TDKR don't also liked to be belittled as if the only reason we didn't like the film is because it wasn't "TDK 2.0", which seemed to be a growing perception around here.
Fair enough. I haven't made a statement like that, but I did see maybe two people say something along those lines last week. Far from a growing perception around here, though.

To say "You didn't like TDKR cuz it was different from TDK!" is definitely a poor defense of the film.

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Old 05-21-2013, 12:17 PM   #622
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

This thread is so fun to read.

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Old 05-21-2013, 12:25 PM   #623
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by theShape View Post
That's something that you'll only really see around these parts, or other internet forums. The general public adores this trilogy. -- (Can't wait for someone to pop in and say that's not true and I can't speak for the general public) -- I haven't seen or heard any of the immense complains that I've read here anywhere else. I saw TDKR on five separate occasions in theaters, with different crowds and different groups of friends, all seemingly well satisfied and some saying it was the best of the trilogy.

Now, in terms of the more die-hard fans here at the Hype...yeah, some of them have said some pretty harsh things about TDKR. Some of certainly "turned on Nolan", in a sense. But, as far as I've noticed, it's mostly the same 8-12 Hypsters leveling the same complaints over and over again, which they have every right to do. Are some of their complaints about TDKR justified? Sure, I can admit that. It's not exactly the "tightest" movie ever made. There's a lot going on in it, a lot of ground covered. Some elements could have been stronger, or altered. Also, as we know, everyone's entitled to their own opinions, especially when it comes to an art form.

Do I think some of their complaints are a little absurd? Yeah, especially when compared to the other films in the trilogy. "In my opinion", it's pretty hard to justify that TDKR is the huge plunge in quality compared to TDK that some Hypesters make it out to be. With the way I've seen people discuss how much better TDK is compared to TDKR, you'd think they were comparing The Godfather Part II with Showgirls. I mean, some people think Nolan screwed it up really, really badly. Meanwhile, I think Batman Begins (which I also love) shares many of the same faults that I see people tossing at TDKR, and to me, those faults are even more glaring in BB -- lazy writing, unimpressive action sequences, a bit of bad editing, and some of the most lousy one-liners of the series.

Like I said, film is subjective, so anyone is welcome to hate TDKR and criticize Nolan for his work. However, what bothers me the most is seeing those same people (who openly admit they were very unhappy with TDKR) belittle the folks who love the film, as if the TDKR fans are sheep who will accept any drivel that is tossed their way. That **** is getting real old fast, and it's kept me out of the TDKR forums for the most part for some time.

But in the "real world" outside of these forums, I think it's safe to say this trilogy is beloved by most. And before someone asks me for proof of that, I have none...it's just obvious. TDK is the shining film in this trilogy, for sure, but the other two aren't far behind in my eyes or the eyes of the critics who reviewed the films -- BB: 85%, TDKR 87% RT ratings

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Old 05-21-2013, 12:43 PM   #624
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Well then, let's just hope nobody jumps on NolanDCU for expressing HIS opinion.
If anything, they'd jump on his attitude. Even if one were inclined to agree with him on some of his points, it's hard not to get past the feeling that a mere 11 posts in his words radiate with the smugness of an A1 d***head.

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Old 05-21-2013, 01:22 PM   #625
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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If anything, they'd jump on his attitude. Even if one were inclined to agree with him on some of his points, it's hard not to get past the feeling that a mere 11 posts in his words radiate with the smugness of an A1 d***head.
Exactly. It's his sort of attitude that gives Nolan fans a bad rep. It should not be applauded.

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