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View Poll Results: When will the fans turn on TDK Trilogy in Mass?
When a reboot or JL film is announced 32 39.51%
When we get a poster/stills of the reboot/JL film 11 13.58%
The new Trailer(s) 20 24.69%
Week of Release 18 22.22%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-23-2013, 11:30 PM   #651
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Nothing wrong in "clinging" to his films, though. While my least enjoyed film of Nolan's is Insomnia, I've always gotten excited over every Nolan-directed film just because they always give me something new to enjoy.
That's different. I'm talking about the people that put him on a pedestal and say he can do no wrong.

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Old 05-23-2013, 11:31 PM   #652
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

The hate will come full force once the reboot movies have been announced and trailers start rolling in.

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Old 05-23-2013, 11:33 PM   #653
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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That's different. I'm talking about the people that put him on a pedestal and say he can do no wrong.
Ahh...so you mean someone who will just be obsessed with Nolan, lol.

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:21 AM   #654
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

BB is the best 'Batman' movie IMO the last two, you can really get lost in the glitz and glamor. I am on the fence here. It's a fantastic trilogy. Brooding, dark, gritty -- these are words that are commonly used to describe Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy.

I do hope when a reboot IS in development that it does become more successful than its predecessors. By no means does it deserve to be compared to Nolan's take but it will be. That is inevitable. It'd be a 'Reboot' just like Begins was, and like Amazing Spiderman. The difference ultimately is, Rises didn't leave a bad taste in 50% of people's mouths. Whereas Batman & Robin did and Spiderman 3.

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Old 05-24-2013, 11:58 AM   #655
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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At least for me, that is correct. That has always been the case and I've always been open about it. I've stated several times that whenever I stated TDKR to be "bad", I never meant that it is bad in the same way things like the Transformers films and the Star Wars prequels are. Those are just bad movies period. TDKR is an alright movie and it is enjoyable (I won't lie that it's not enjoyable). What I always meant by "bad" is that it is not only nowhere near the standard set by the first two films (IMO) but it also doesn't live up to the standard that the movie tries to set for itself.

Quite frankly, there are things in TDKR that I criticize the movie for that I would not criticize them if they were present in, for example, The Avengers. But that is mainly because I try to judge things by what they are trying to be. If a movie tries to be a musical, I judge it as a musical. If a movie tries to be just a fun popcorn flick, I judge it as that. If a movie just wants to be a cheesy action movie with not much story, I look at it as just that. In the case of TDKR, the film really tries to be the most intelligent, realistic, and most complex comic book movie there is and because it is trying to be just that, I judge it as just that. And in my opinion (and it is just my opinion - you're entitled to yours), it did not achieve what it was trying to be. It did not reach the standard that the movie has set for itself.

I also never bought the argument that I am overanalyzing things such as themes, character motivations, and story. That would be a fine argument if it was used to defend movies where that arguments fits and is more appropriate but the thing is that Nolan's trilogy was built on just that. The Dark Knight specifically is the most overanalyzed film in the past 10 years and despite that, it still holds up (at least it does in my opinion). Now I'm not saying that TDKR should be criticized for not being as good as TDK because that would be unfair to not just TDKR but to every other comic book movie out there. However, I do think it is a bit unfair for other people to say that fans had no right to expect a film with meanings and themes that could be analyzed deeper than just from the surface level without the film itself falling apart - and once again, please note that I didn't say TDKR has to necessarily live up to the standard set by TDK; just that it shouldn't be able to fall apart as easily as it does when you try to dig a bit into the film (IMO).
Precisely my thoughts. I also agree that there are some fans that feel Nolan can do no wrong and there are some fans that feel that everything he does is wrong. I'd hope I fall in the middle. I enjoy Nolan's films, but it didn't necessarily mean he'd get a 'free ride" from me when TDKR hit, just because I loved the first 2 films. It does get a bit ridiculous when people start saying well "lots hated tdkr" or "lots loved tdkr" as what are we using to measure this? Most of my friends didn't care for tdkr as much as the other 2, does that mean I should make the assumption that most didn't? By the same token, people will say that they left a theatre and everyone loved it. How could that be proven? In end its futile to start to use faux statistics like lots did or lots didn't in order to prove a point or enhance one's opinion.


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Old 05-24-2013, 12:35 PM   #656
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

I don't doubt for a second that the GA all loved TDKR for the most part. However, I don't see what that proves either. The GA also loved the Transformers movies. Does that automatically mean they are good?

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Old 05-24-2013, 12:51 PM   #657
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
At least for me, that is correct. That has always been the case and I've always been open about it. I've stated several times that whenever I stated TDKR to be "bad", I never meant that it is bad in the same way things like the Transformers films and the Star Wars prequels are. Those are just bad movies period. TDKR is an alright movie and it is enjoyable (I won't lie that it's not enjoyable). What I always meant by "bad" is that it is not only nowhere near the standard set by the first two films (IMO) but it also doesn't live up to the standard that the movie tries to set for itself.

Quite frankly, there are things in TDKR that I criticize the movie for that I would not criticize them if they were present in, for example, The Avengers. But that is mainly because I try to judge things by what they are trying to be. If a movie tries to be a musical, I judge it as a musical. If a movie tries to be just a fun popcorn flick, I judge it as that. If a movie just wants to be a cheesy action movie with not much story, I look at it as just that. In the case of TDKR, the film really tries to be the most intelligent, realistic, and most complex comic book movie there is and because it is trying to be just that, I judge it as just that. And in my opinion (and it is just my opinion - you're entitled to yours), it did not achieve what it was trying to be. It did not reach the standard that the movie has set for itself.


I also never bought the argument that I am overanalyzing things such as themes, character motivations, and story. That would be a fine argument if it was used to defend movies where that arguments fits and is more appropriate but the thing is that Nolan's trilogy was built on just that. The Dark Knight specifically is the most overanalyzed film in the past 10 years and despite that, it still holds up (at least it does in my opinion). Now I'm not saying that TDKR should be criticized for not being as good as TDK because that would be unfair to not just TDKR but to every other comic book movie out there. However, I do think it is a bit unfair for other people to say that fans had no right to expect a film with meanings and themes that could be analyzed deeper than just from the surface level without the film itself falling apart - and once again, please note that I didn't say TDKR has to necessarily live up to the standard set by TDK; just that it shouldn't be able to fall apart as easily as it does when you try to dig a bit into the film (IMO).
I think you're judging the movie for something it isn't trying to be. It's trying to be a movie that entertains as a summer blockbuster but offers more depth from a character and thematic standpoint. It is trying to capture that grand scope of old epics such as Lawrence of Arabia. It is trying to get people to care enough about Bruce that they don't care that he's not in the Batman suit the majority of the movie, and have us invested enough into the character to care about the fate of Gotham as it relates to his personal journey and mission statement. To have us root for him to put all this stuff behind him and find life anew. To me, the film succeeded at what it was trying to accomplish in nearly every important way.

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Old 05-24-2013, 12:51 PM   #658
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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I don't doubt for a second that the GA all loved TDKR for the most part. However, I don't see what that proves either. The GA also loved the Transformers movies. Does that automatically mean they are good?
In my opinion "no". Which is why I stay away from using generalities or faux polls to justify my issues with TDKR.

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Old 05-24-2013, 12:56 PM   #659
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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I don't doubt for a second that the GA all loved TDKR for the most part. However, I don't see what that proves either. The GA also loved the Transformers movies. Does that automatically mean they are good?
The general audiences are like the Oscars: best, most credible thing ever if they support my film, worst, most vile thing ever if they don't. The general audiences are scum for liking and making Transformers a huge hit, but they are also legit because they liked and made Rises a hit.

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:11 PM   #660
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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The general audiences are like the Oscars: best, most credible thing ever if they support my film, worst, most vile thing ever if they don't. The general audiences are scum for liking and making Transformers a huge hit, but they are also legit because they liked and made Rises a hit.
Ha, good point

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:25 PM   #661
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When has the Oscars ever been credible to anyone's eyes?

They screwed that pooch back in 2008.

I will just say this about the general audience...I have a group of friends that would populate that demo and only one friend that actually is into comic books and etc that I am as well, and when they like the film, and when they didn't care for films like Bayformers, it says a lot to me. But the general audience can be used in that stereotype as well for CB fans...the general audience likes a specific CBM as well, and CB fans will bring it up, but when the GA likes a film that some CB fans don't like, they'll bring up that the GA likes films like Bayformers too.


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Old 05-24-2013, 01:29 PM   #662
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

Sorry, none of us were aware of your specific group of friends when you referred to the GA. We thought you meant the GA writ large, you know.

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:30 PM   #663
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^ And that's only your first problem

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:34 PM   #664
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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^ And that's only your first problem
My problem is that I don't have psychic powers to clarify that which you don't make clear?

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #665
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Your problem is your argument seems to be solely towards me apparently, lol.

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:44 PM   #666
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Your problem is your argument seems to be solely towards me apparently, lol.
What?

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:48 PM   #667
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

I only state what I meant mostly about the 'general audience' when most of my friends fit in that category and then you make it seem like your argument is towards me with these posts.

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Sorry, none of us were aware of your specific group of friends when you referred to the GA. We thought you meant the GA writ large, you know.
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My problem is that I don't have psychic powers to clarify that which you don't make clear?
I'm sorry if it's not my place to explain why I make mention of the GA so much because I guess it was a A and B conversation and I should've C'd my way out

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:57 PM   #668
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

Well, the parameters of what defines "GA" goes beyond petty anecdotal evidences. None of this matters though, because at the end using the GA as vindication is fallacy as they don't automatically win points in debates. Because they've proven to be alarmingly imprudent by making genuine crap like "Epic Movie" and "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" profitable. I wouldn't heed the consensus of the layman after that.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:00 PM   #669
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And what does any of that have to do with me exactly? You're generalizing me with everyone who brings up the general audience. Great job

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:01 PM   #670
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

The last point was broad, not just for you.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:11 PM   #671
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So you're refraining from your point of making your argument towards just me then, good. Gotta admit, didn't appreciate such hostility with those two posts just because I gave my opinion of the topic, lol.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:18 PM   #672
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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Well, the parameters of what defines "GA" goes beyond petty anecdotal evidences. None of this matters though, because at the end using the GA as vindication is fallacy as they don't automatically win points in debates. Because they've proven to be alarmingly imprudent by making genuine crap like "Epic Movie" and "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" profitable. I wouldn't heed the consensus of the layman after that.
Agreed

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #673
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But what does that make TDK when it gets like a 90-something on RT from the general audience? We should just not care about what the GA likes?

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:24 PM   #674
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Default Re: How long before the fan community turns on the Nolan films?

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So you're refraining from your point of making your argument towards just me then, good. Gotta admit, didn't appreciate such hostility with those two posts just because I gave my opinion of the topic, lol.
I didn't specifically target anybody. I chose to respond to you because your post came after mine's addressing the GA thing.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #675
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But what does that make TDK when it gets like a 90-something on RT from the general audience? We should just not care about what the GA likes?
TDK should be discussed on its own merits like everything else.

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