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Old 08-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #251
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Is it mentioned that she is?
Talia's nationality is not mention no. Thats the point. How can you say an accent is wrong, if you dont know where the character is from?

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Old 08-11-2012, 02:25 PM   #252
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

So you are suggesting either that Talia was rewritten (implicitly) as French in order for the mono-accented Marion to be cast, or that the character just became French anyway because Marion can't or won't change her accent.

I don't find either variable palatable.

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Old 08-11-2012, 02:32 PM   #253
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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So you are suggesting either that Talia was rewritten (implicitly) as French in order for the mono-accented Marion to be cast, or that the character just became French anyway because Marion can't or won't change her accent.

I don't find either variable palatable.
What do you mean "rewritten as French"? The character's nationality is unimportant and unknown to the viewer. The character is not written as being from any particular place, other than based on what we know of her orgin that she is most likely not, but could be, american. If say Keira Knightley or Scarlett Johansson played the character, would you say she was rewritten as Brittish or as rewritten as American?

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Old 08-11-2012, 02:39 PM   #254
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Is it mentioned that she is?
Is it mentioned that she isn't?


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Old 08-11-2012, 02:47 PM   #255
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Running out of topics to debate, I see.

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Old 08-11-2012, 03:07 PM   #256
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Yeah, I think a nonsensical accent debate is a good sign that this thread has pretty much run its course. Or at least into the ground.

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Old 08-11-2012, 03:46 PM   #257
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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1) There was nothing much wrong with Brando's English accent- it was acceptable if imperfect. Same goes for Russel Crowe in "Gladiator".

2) For comparison, Eva Green is a French actress who can play an English role with a perfectly acceptable accent. Perhaps it is not Marion's fault that she lacks the skill to do likewise, but that probably means she should stick to playing French characters.

3) There may well be lots of American actors who are incompetent at changing their accent, but there are a lot of British actors who are extremely good at it. Think of Dominic West and Idris Elba in The Wire, Hugh Laurie in House, or the entire British cast of Nolan's Batman movies. I think it is just complacency that disinclines some actors to bother.



I'm afraid that you are so obviously wrong that your opinion isn't valid in this instance.

Have you ever met a British person, or heard one speak?
Uh...yes I have. Obviously she has a french accent and, if she did have a British one in this film, it would be hugely twinged with French. But to me in lines like "What if we can't" during the reactor scene, and some of the times she said "Mr. Wayne", it made me think she was attempting a British accent.

I don't understand why my comment generated such a strong negative response lol. All you have to say is "I disagree", not something along the lines of, "You must my stupid to think that."

And I love how people cherry picked that one comment and ignored the rest of my points.

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Old 08-11-2012, 04:13 PM   #258
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

In the novel, it was mentioned that even if Alfred has traveled in Europe a lot, he still couldn't place what Tate's accent is.

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Old 08-11-2012, 04:23 PM   #259
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

This thread time has come. Like Tom Hard as Bane or Anne Hathaway as Catwoman threads before it the thread has become a breeding ground for suffering and injustice. It is beyond saving and must be allowed to die. This is the most important function of the moderators.Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII... must be destroyed.

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Old 08-11-2012, 04:52 PM   #260
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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In the novel, it was mentioned that even if Alfred has traveled in Europe a lot, he still couldn't place what Tate's accent is.
Obviously, he should have asked regwec

Okay, I'm done.

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:34 PM   #261
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I don't play videogames, so I have no idea what it is like.
Hahahahahahahahahaha..

So you better play it.. Or at least, watch the walkthrough or the cutscene on Youtube.. So, you'll get some other references about Talia..
Talia doesn't have any specific accent.. Even her accents is different with her father's.. She speaks in different accents in different media, different writer/director..
Some said that her accent is a little bit Arabic/Middle Eastern, the other said she has Eastern European accent.
I'm just curious, how come some of the guys here know one specific accent for Talia?.

My conclusion is, Talia is not a character that have a specific accents.. She just have to sound exotic, whatever the accent is.


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Old 08-11-2012, 08:49 PM   #262
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

(Some) past Talia voice actresses for cartoons and video games:

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/...Talia-Al-Ghul/

I like Helen's and Stana's best there.

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Old 08-11-2012, 09:22 PM   #263
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Yeah, I think a nonsensical accent debate is a good sign that this thread has pretty much run its course. Or at least into the ground.
At this point I think the thread has become more about attacking the actress than about the actual Tatelia character.

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Old 08-12-2012, 04:32 AM   #264
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Regrettably so, and I am sorry to have been drawn into that.

Marion's was a weak performance, but the character itself was paper-thin, so she can only really be apportioned a fraction of the blame.

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:25 AM   #265
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Writing female characters is Nolan's greatest weakness.

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:27 AM   #266
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Yep.. We can't really say/debate/have a discussion about her accent in this film.. Because Talia herself never have a specific accent.. But her accent is quite exotic (like Talia should be) in TDKR, in my opinion...

But yeah, her character is not well developed in TDKR...
She didn't get enough screen time, didn't have a well developed relationship with Batman/Bruce (unlike her father, Ra's, in Begins)...

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:49 AM   #267
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Writing female characters is Nolan's greatest weakness.
Catwoman was pretty strong all round to be fair.

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:53 AM   #268
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Yes, she was a pleasant surprise.

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Old 08-12-2012, 06:03 AM   #269
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Catwoman was pretty strong all round to be fair.
To be honest, I thought she was also underdeveloped and not really interesting. Although she was still way better than Miranda/Talia.

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Old 08-12-2012, 06:03 AM   #270
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Writing female characters is Nolan's greatest weakness.
Mmm, yeah. And they decided to use two important ones this time around. Both drew short sticks...one got a visible backstory and the other didn't. One got to interact with both Bruce and Batman and the other didn't until the very end. But it's (the flashbacks) not a great substitute for character interaction. It didn't help they decided to put Bruce in prison... where he can't freakin' interact with anyone important except Bane briefly and the ghost of Ra's al Ghul.

Even taking Alfred out of the equation (which they did), time just doesn't seem to managed well in this film. In Batman Begins, Ducard/Ra's disappears for an hour. Scarecrow doesn't make an early appearance. Falcone comes and goes. The characters of Dent, The Joker, and Gordon received big importance in TDK right out the gate until the very end and I still think they could have used a bit less time with them and more for Bruce. TDKR is the opposite. Either it's not enough time or the time was managed poorly with what the characters were doing. And I won't start on John Blake...this time.


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Old 08-12-2012, 06:12 AM   #271
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I liked Blake well enough for his inclusion to be worthwhile to me, especially since it allows for the sense of renewal at the film's end.

I don't think Talia was necessary at all. She is added, I suppose, to link TDKR to BB, but Bane's backstory did that anyway. The character serves as a plot device to show Bruce letting his guard down, but she wasn't developed any further than that, and Catwoman's earlier betrayal of Batman already served the same purpose.

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Old 08-12-2012, 06:31 AM   #272
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Mmm, yeah. And they decided to use two important ones this time around. Both drew short sticks...one got a visible backstory and the other didn't. One got to interact with both Bruce and Batman and the other didn't until the very end. But it's not a great substitute for character interaction. It didn't help they decided to put Bruce in prison... where he can't freakin' interact with anyone important except Bane briefly and the ghost of Ra's al Ghul.

Even taking Alfred out of the equation (which they did), time just doesn't seem to managed well in this film. In Batman Begins, Ducard/Ra's disappears for an hour. Scarecrow doesn't make an early appearance. Falcone comes and goes. The characters of Dent, The Joker, and Gordon received big importance in TDK right out the gate until the very end and I still think they could have used a bit less time with them and more for Bruce. TDKR is the opposite. Either it's not enough time or the time was managed poorly with what the characters were doing. And I won't start on John Blake...this time.
It's interesting because I think Nolan made the same mistake they all make with the last instalment. Too much going on.
It was probably to please the fans. It seems like he wanted this to be that big, epic thing, so he put so much things in it.
I was laughing hard when people were talking about "the curse" because I don't believe in curses, but I don't know how to say it, but I understand now how there's actually a "curse".

You know, I remember someone (maybe Wally) saying how some crew members prefer BB and others TDK and I thought Nolan wanted this film to be the best of both films. That's what I thought when he brought back the League and the Al Ghuls.
BB is my favourite film of the trilogy. But after seeing TDKR, I'm now sure that the reason I love BB so much isn't because of the LOS or Ra's Al Ghul. I don't know what it is, but it was not in TDKR.

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Old 08-12-2012, 06:55 AM   #273
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I love BB so much isn't because of the LOS or Ra's Al Ghul. I don't know what it is, but it was not in TDKR.
I think BB has a sense of promise about it, by virtue of being the first one.

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Old 08-12-2012, 07:10 AM   #274
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I liked Blake well enough for his inclusion to be worthwhile to me, especially since it allows for the sense of renewal at the film's end.

I don't think Talia was necessary at all. She is added, I suppose, to link TDKR to BB, but Bane's backstory did that anyway. The character serves as a plot device to show Bruce letting his guard down, but she wasn't developed any further than that, and Catwoman's earlier betrayal of Batman already served the same purpose.
I disagree, I think the Talia's betrayal was supposed to be the last straw. And then, he really finds the strengh to rise.
To make it totally work, the relationship between them should have been more developed but then, how make Batman and Catwoman kiss 2 minutes later?

I think Catwoman's betrayal in the beginning was only shoking to some because Catwoman is a famous and beloved character.
But despite the fact that the Talia/Bruce relationship has been underdeveloped, Talia's betrayal was still stronger.

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Old 08-12-2012, 07:16 AM   #275
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

You have point, but I don't think that the plot point that Tate/Talia provides is really sufficient to justify her character, especially since Bruce has already been shown to let down his guard.

The result is that Tate/Talia occupies time and space in the movie, without a great deal to do. If anything, that's unfair on Marion, because it means too much is expected of her to sell an underwritten character.

I happen to think the role could have been better played, regardless. But the structure of the movie would have been more satisfactory without her altogether, in my opinion.

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