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Old 08-12-2012, 02:45 PM   #301
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I think it is one of Bale's best performances, and it is also one that allows him a lot of range.
Certainly was the best one for Bale to flex his acting muscles in the most in the trilogy.

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Old 08-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #302
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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People like to say "Miranda was just supposed to be a fling!", but the way Bale acted in that scene, it really confirmed for me that Miranda was supposed to be set up as the main romantic interest for the film. Too bad the Nolans suck at writing a proper romance.
Exactly, thats what they wanted you to believe when you saw it, so it worked in its aim.

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Old 08-12-2012, 02:52 PM   #303
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

^ No...it didnt.

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People always claim that Batman's villains are more interesting than he is. Even in the comics.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #304
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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^ No...it didnt.
But you just said yourself you believed she was meant to be the main love interest!! You proved the scene's intentions's yourself worked..... upon your very self!!

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Old 08-12-2012, 03:00 PM   #305
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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But you just said yourself you believed she was meant to be the main love interest!! You proved the scene's intentions's yourself worked..... upon your very self!!
I didnt say it worked. I said the way Bale acted in that scene confirmed the filmmakers intentions regarding Miranda. I didnt say that those intentions were done properly onscreen. In fact, Bale's reaction just seemed like an overreaction, albeit a nicely acted one, because of how badly the nolans wrote the Bruce/Miranda romance before that scene.

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People always claim that Batman's villains are more interesting than he is. Even in the comics.
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:28 PM   #306
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Exactly, thats what they wanted you to believe when you saw it, so it worked in its aim.
You are suppose to buy into the relationship. The issue here is if we're not given a reason to care about Miranda/Talia then her turn on Bruce has no impact whatsoever, especially to people like us who had speculated long ago she was Talia. I've heard people say you're not suppose to buy into the relationship, or that there isn't meant to be one, but what's the point of the character then? A one night stand does not make a connection. The common phrase I hear in regards to this character is 'well it enough worked for me'. That to me translates more like 'well I got Talia, that's all I care about', I guarantee you had it been any other character people would be blowing up about it more, but people seem to be giving it a pass because it's Talia.

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Old 08-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #307
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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You are suppose to buy into the relationship. The issue here is if we're not given a reason to care about Miranda/Talia then her turn on Bruce has no impact whatsoever, especially to people like us who had speculated long ago she was Talia. I've heard people say you're not suppose to buy into the relationship, or that there isn't meant to be one, but what's the point of the character then? A one night stand does not make a connection. The common phrase I hear in regards to this character is 'well it enough worked for me'. That to me translates more like 'well I got Talia, that's all I care about', I guarantee you had it been any other character people would be blowing up about it more, but people seem to be giving it a pass because it's Talia.
Spot on. Most of the fans on here don't know about and dont care about Talia, especially since they believe Batman has only had one significant love interest (as wrong as that is). So they're totally fine with the poor treatment she got and they try to make up excuses.

"She's supposed to be a one night stand". Really? In that case, Those two european girls in BB should've turned out to be Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy, and that Russian Ballerina in TDK should've been Vicki Vale using a fake russian accent.

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People always claim that Batman's villains are more interesting than he is. Even in the comics.
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Yeah but those people are ****s more or less. :o
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:51 PM   #308
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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You are suppose to buy into the relationship. The issue here is if we're not given a reason to care about Miranda/Talia then her turn on Bruce has no impact whatsoever, especially to people like us who had speculated long ago she was Talia. I've heard people say you're not suppose to buy into the relationship, or that there isn't meant to be one, but what's the point of the character then? A one night stand does not make a connection. The common phrase I hear in regards to this character is 'well it enough worked for me'. That to me translates more like 'well I got Talia, that's all I care about', I guarantee you had it been any other character people would be blowing up about it more, but people seem to be giving it a pass because it's Talia.
I guess hardcore fans of Talia may have more issues with her than most, especially those knew she was going to be in the film, always thought her a weak character in the comics to be honest so was surprised Nolan used her but at least the twist was good for us non fans of her.

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:13 PM   #309
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Connecting some dots.

Ra's al Ghul: "Your compassion is a weakness your enemies will not share."

Bruce Wayne saves Ra's al Ghul:

Ra's al Ghul: "I warned you about compassion, Bruce."

Bane saves lil Talia. Talia later returns the favor and finds her father.

Talia: "[Bane] was a reminder of the hell he left his wife to die in. He excommunicated Bane from the League of Shadows. His only crime was that he loved me."

So Ra's saw the compassion he once had for his wife in Bane, which is why he later got kicked out. "That impossible anger strangling the grief until the memory of your loved one is just...poison in your veins. And one day, you catch yourself wishing the person you loved had never existed...so you'd be spared your pain." No room for love or compassion in Talia's father's League of Shadows.


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Old 08-12-2012, 07:14 PM   #310
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Thumbs up Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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You are suppose to buy into the relationship. The issue here is if we're not given a reason to care about Miranda/Talia then her turn on Bruce has no impact whatsoever, especially to people like us who had speculated long ago she was Talia. I've heard people say you're not suppose to buy into the relationship, or that there isn't meant to be one, but what's the point of the character then? A one night stand does not make a connection. The common phrase I hear in regards to this character is 'well it enough worked for me'. That to me translates more like 'well I got Talia, that's all I care about', I guarantee you had it been any other character people would be blowing up about it more, but people seem to be giving it a pass because it's Talia.
Well said.

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Old 08-12-2012, 07:55 PM   #311
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

It's kind of eerie (in a good way.lol) on how much this shot reminds me of the way that they executed Talia's betrayal of Bruce in the film:


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Old 08-14-2012, 04:23 AM   #312
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

After watching "Inception" again today...man, IF ONLY Nolan had been able to give us a more emotional farewell scene between these two (granted that Talia being written better in general as well.lol)


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Old 08-14-2012, 04:31 AM   #313
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

If only...


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Old 08-14-2012, 04:51 AM   #314
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

They wanted her to be supremely evil, and die happy and gloating so it wouldn't fit. I once thought a long time ago she might turn on the waterworks at an earlier point in the film, but it was not to be...

Enjoy some more fan-art:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


(Click for source)

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Old 08-14-2012, 05:10 AM   #315
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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You are suppose to buy into the relationship. The issue here is if we're not given a reason to care about Miranda/Talia then her turn on Bruce has no impact whatsoever, especially to people like us who had speculated long ago she was Talia. I've heard people say you're not suppose to buy into the relationship, or that there isn't meant to be one, but what's the point of the character then? A one night stand does not make a connection. The common phrase I hear in regards to this character is 'well it enough worked for me'. That to me translates more like 'well I got Talia, that's all I care about', I guarantee you had it been any other character people would be blowing up about it more, but people seem to be giving it a pass because it's Talia.
Look, we're fed tons of dialogue about Tate being Bruce's love interest from Alfred, Fox, then she's referred to as his "girlfriend" and so on, so come on people. Clearly, jmc's right on that, no argument.

The relationship aspect failed, it isn't involving, and it's even more significantly undercut by the sizzling chemistry shared with Selina Kyle. That said, I know what she means to Bruce, and Bale's performance in the big reveal (along with hers), raised it to become one of my favorite scenes of the film. The Batman facade crumbles from the sting of betrayal and out comes Bruce Wayne, speaking in his real voice in the bat suit for the firs time ever in the trilogy. That contrast sold the emotional weight of the scene for me, even if I didn't give a damn about it before the reveal.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:33 AM   #316
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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After watching "Inception" again today...man, IF ONLY Nolan had been able to give us a more emotional farewell scene between these two (granted that Talia being written better in general as well.lol)

That kinda happened except it wasn't for Batman and Talia. Bane was Mal and Talia was Cobb.

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Old 08-14-2012, 10:40 AM   #317
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

....I think the fact that people ship Bane and talia now makes me even more annoyed at Nolan's portrayal of her.

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Old 08-14-2012, 11:02 AM   #318
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I wonder if those 'shipping' Bane and Talia based on TDKR are even aware of her relationship with Bruce/Batman from the comics. I'm guessing not. Quite funny how Nolan presented Bane's love for her as very fatherly and yet the two are being shipped as some forbidden epic romantic love by the fans.

If we're just going by Nolan's version alone, there's no way anyone could really fancy Bats/Bruce with her either as Tate or Talia. Bane can have her. It's Selina/Catwoman all the way for Bats.

It's an endless debate of course in other mediums and versions.

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Old 08-14-2012, 11:19 AM   #319
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I think it's because people can't accept "fatherly or friendly" love between man and woman. Because in movie there is no other sign. (The connection between evil woman & evil guy might cause this as well)

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Old 08-14-2012, 11:27 AM   #320
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:44 AM   #321
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I wonder if those 'shipping' Bane and Talia based on TDKR are even aware of her relationship with Bruce/Batman from the comics. I'm guessing not. Quite funny how Nolan presented Bane's love for her as very fatherly and yet the two are being shipped as some forbidden epic romantic love by the fans.

If we're just going by Nolan's version alone, there's no way anyone could really fancy Bats/Bruce with her either as Tate or Talia. Bane can have her. It's Selina/Catwoman all the way for Bats.

It's an endless debate of course in other mediums and versions.
This was Talia's big onscreen debut, and pretty much her intro to a larger pop culture, so to see her character misrepresented so badly just makes things worse.

She's commonly seen as being in love with Batman...in Nolan's version, she hates him.

In the comics, she has a fling with Bane, but is ultimately disgusted by him. In Nolan's version, you can interperet them as being starcrossed lovers.


To see a character who can be complex pretty much rendered one dimensional just sucks. Its worse that most fans don't care.

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Old 08-14-2012, 12:24 PM   #322
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

the reason why the bruce and tate relationship did not work is because at the beginning bruce was in exile for 8 years n then when he finally gives into her, his back is broken n hes taken to a prison...nolan didnt even do so well with selina either n the cause for this was the story was trying to go into too many places at once that characters barely got to interact with eachother

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Old 08-14-2012, 12:32 PM   #323
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Meh. It was Talia's first movie, yes, but she got a ton of exposure in Arkham City too, a game played by millions. So her more definitive characterization is still out there in the mainstream.

This whole telling of the al Ghul story has been its own thing from the start, what with Ra's training Bruce and Bruce bringing about his very real and permanent demise. In the comics she's always characterized as torn between loyalty to her father and her love for Bruce. In this version, the stakes are higher as Ra's doesn't have a Lazzy pit to bring him back. And she has no prior relationship with Bruce.

So it's a completely different story, but nothing is necessarily out of character with what would potentially happen if Bruce had actually brought about the final demise of Ra's in the comics.

They could have made Selina more of the villain and Talia more of a heroine if they chose. Personally, with both of them in the same film, I'm glad they went the way they did.

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Old 08-14-2012, 04:32 PM   #324
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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That kinda happened except it wasn't for Batman and Talia. Bane was Mal and Talia was Cobb.
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I wonder if those 'shipping' Bane and Talia based on TDKR are even aware of her relationship with Bruce/Batman from the comics. I'm guessing not. Quite funny how Nolan presented Bane's love for her as very fatherly and yet the two are being shipped as some forbidden epic romantic love by the fans.

If we're just going by Nolan's version alone, there's no way anyone could really fancy Bats/Bruce with her either as Tate or Talia. Bane can have her. It's Selina/Catwoman all the way for Bats.

It's an endless debate of course in other mediums and versions.
I think I'd rather ship Batman/Bruce with Mal as this point.

Mal seems like a more better character for Nolan's Bruce Wayne.haha

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Old 08-14-2012, 04:37 PM   #325
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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This was Talia's big onscreen debut, and pretty much her intro to a larger pop culture, so to see her character misrepresented so badly just makes things worse.

She's commonly seen as being in love with Batman...in Nolan's version, she hates him.

In the comics, she has a fling with Bane, but is ultimately disgusted by him. In Nolan's version, you can interperet them as being starcrossed lovers.


To see a character who can be complex pretty much rendered one dimensional just sucks. Its worse that most fans don't care.
I didn't see Bane and Talia as starcrossed lovers, but partners or two with a common kinship.

But on to your comment about Talia being misrepresented...are you sure?

Because while she wasn't reflective of the Talia who loved Batman but was devoted to her father, she felt pretty reflective of the Talia that's been getting portrayed for the last 6 years.

In the movie, Talia was cold, calculating, vindictive, sought to destroy Gotham and Batman. And she was a bit unhinged.

In the comics right now, she's almost portrayed the same way.

For the sake of spoilers for those who haven't caught up in the comics:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I mean, this woman had her affections for Batman spurned, watched as the son they had together choose to be with his father and allies. In response, she's executing a revenge plan that she's been working on for years, and just about everything that's happened from Batman & Son to Batman Inc is linked to her. She's declared war on Batman, has started invading and infiltrating Gotham using her own organization.

And the son that turned on her? She's put a bounty on his head for half a billion dollars, and now every assassin the world is coming to Gotham to kill him. A bounty on her own son. She's half-crazy. Talia in the comics is a straight up villain.

Nolan's Talia just doesn't represent the Talia that you prefer. And I can understand that because that's the Talia that I had first learned about. But I don't agree that she was misrepresented here. Minus the death scene anyway.

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