Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by shauner111

You're a waste of space.

What are you, 5 years old? I dislike a fictional character so you insult me personally?

People like you are the reason why Nolan fans have such a bad rep.

Ive seen this movie with a lot of people, many different times, and i never heard any complaints.

Hate to break it to you but your social circle isn't the representative of the general consensus.

Oh well, people like to nitpick.

I'd take a nit picker over a childish name caller

Talia wasnt a waste of space.

She was. Easily the worst Nolan villain.

I enjoyed her character, i saw the reveal coming, mainly because of spy pics and reading about the casting. People who didnt know any information didnt seem to know. The reveal was well done, and i enjoyed it. Dont care about the haters.

If you didn't care about the haters you wouldn't be here now throwing your toys out of the pram because I don't like Talia.

Originally Posted by regwec

Spot on.

Thanks. Just posting the facts though.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

What are you, 5 years old? I dislike a fictional character so you insult me personally?

People like you are the reason why Nolan fans have such a bad rep.

Oh boy. Why is everyone so serious all the time on here. I wasnt even being serious when i said that. I should have put in brackets that i was joking, give you a heads up, since people get insulted too easily on here.

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Hate to break it to you but your social circle isn't the representative of the general consensus.

Well thank god for that then. I come on the TDKR part of this forum and it's about the only time i read such extreme nitpicking. Thank god my social circle are different from the general consensus.

Originally Posted by Fudgie

She was. Easily the worst Nolan villain.

That's your opinion, not fact. Since she only had time to be a "villain" at the very end, it's not really fair to compare her to the other rogues who appeared in this trilogy. I liked her just fine and for me? That's all that matters.

If i came on here without seeing the movie and just went through a bunch of reactions, i would think it's the worst movie of the decade. Thankfully i walked out of the theater with my friends and a full house of people in Imax and we all gave it a standing ovation and said "it's gonna be hard to top this one".

I didnt hear any complaints about Talia as a character, it tied back perfectly to Begins with Ras. And like Kevin Smith said "whether you knew she was Talia or not..it was still badass to see Talia in a Batman movie. The fact that they got away with it is amazing". (Completely paraphrasing and butchering his quote but thats pretty much what he said). And i feel the same way. Marion Cotillard was solid. And im happy Talia was in this trilogy.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by Van Petrol

From what I recall it was more a case of it not being for a minor role in terms of significance, rather than appearance and screentime.

Significance is what I was referring to.

[Baneis8feettall]

GA: This movie just showed you that's full of people ready to believe in quality.

Hater: Until their spirit breaks completely. Until they get a good look at the real Talia Al Ghul, and all the stuff things she's done in comics. You didn't think I'd risk losing the battle for cinema's soul in a fistfight with you? No. You need an ace in the hole. Mine's Talia.

GA:What did you do?

Hater: I took Talia's death scene and I posted it on my tumblr. It wasn't hard. You see, hype, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push!

[The Batman]

It never stops being sad when some fanboys, so desperate to have people love something as much as they do, complain about the criticisms fans have.

Thats the only logical reasoning I have for people who seem to actually be affected by fanboy reaction to this movie. Its like...get over it. Of course fans are more critical than your family and friends, who know little to nothing about how some of these characters are in the comics/cartoons/etc. Ignorance is bliss.

These "I liked everything about the movie, and if you didnt, you suck" fans tell you "The general audience liked it", like people were saying their views were the majority. Its like these fans are trying to tell themselves "Ok, everyone else liked it, so my opinion is validated, and these peoples arent cause they're negative".

I wish I could be as accepting about Talia's underwhelming role in this movie. But I'm not. Cause I actually care about the character and I don't go "SQUEEE" just because someone crammed a comic character in there without taking the time to make sure the character is interesting.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by The Batman

It never stops being sad when some fanboys, so desperate to have people love something as much as they do, complain about the criticisms fans have.

Thats the only logical reasoning I have for people who seem to actually be affected by fanboy reaction to this movie. Its like...get over it. Of course fans are more critical than your family and friends, who know little to nothing about how some of these characters are in the comics/cartoons/etc. Ignorance is bliss.

These "I liked everything about the movie, and if you didnt, you suck" fans tell you "The general audience liked it", like people were saying their views were the majority. Its like these fans are trying to tell themselves "Ok, everyone else liked it, so my opinion is validated, and these peoples arent cause they're negative".

I wish I could be as accepting about Talia's underwhelming role in this movie. But I'm not. Cause I actually care about the character and I don't go "SQUEEE" just because someone crammed a comic character in there without taking the time to make sure the character is interesting.

You...complete... ME!

Well said, Bats.

[joker1524]

Originally Posted by The Batman

It never stops being sad when some fanboys, so desperate to have people love something as much as they do, complain about the criticisms fans have.

Thats the only logical reasoning I have for people who seem to actually be affected by fanboy reaction to this movie. Its like...get over it. Of course fans are more critical than your family and friends, who know little to nothing about how some of these characters are in the comics/cartoons/etc. Ignorance is bliss.

These "I liked everything about the movie, and if you didnt, you suck" fans tell you "The general audience liked it", like people were saying their views were the majority. Its like these fans are trying to tell themselves "Ok, everyone else liked it, so my opinion is validated, and these peoples arent cause they're negative".

I wish I could be as accepting about Talia's underwhelming role in this movie. But I'm not. Cause I actually care about the character and I don't go "SQUEEE" just because someone crammed a comic character in there without taking the time to make sure the character is interesting.

Very well said

[JackWhite]

Talia's setup was good, it's just that when she's revealed as Talia, the daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, she just dies shortly after, lol.

With Ra's, he burned down Bruce's home, strutted his stuff for a bit, and had an epic fight on the monorail with Batman. Unfortunately, Talia didn't have such great moments after her reveal. And the death scene sure didn't help her case.

But honestly, I really enjoyed her deception throughout the first two acts of the film.

[Caped Crusader]

On the flip side I care about the character as well & l actually liked Talia's role. That being said I respect everyone's opinion.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by Caped Crusader

On the flip side I care about the character as well & l actually liked Talia's role. That being said I respect everyone's opinion.

Oh yeah, same here. I really expected more from her when she was revealed, so the criticism is for sure valid.

I mean, I know some people had the Ra's/Ducard reveal spoiled for them in BB, but I'm pretty sure they were satisfied with how it all worked out. The same can't be said for Talia's in TDKR though.

[Caped Crusader]

Imagine if the Taila pics weren't leaked last summer.. Hmm

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by Caped Crusader

Imagine if the Taila pics weren't leaked last summer.. Hmm

Would have been a lot better when she stabs Batman. Instead, because I knew the reveal, I was just waiting for it to happen.

Still wouldn't have saved her death scene though, lol.

[The Batman]

^ I really hope you're not implying that if people didnt know about the twist, theyd love Talia's role in the movie.

Cause that never stops being a weak and tired argument.

[JackWhite]

Originally Posted by The Batman

^ I really hope you're not implying that if people didnt know about the twist, theyd love Talia's role in the movie.

Cause that never stops being a weak and tired argument.

No, I'm talking about the initial reveal. When she stabs Bruce, that should have been a WTF? moment. Instead it's like, oh yeah, almost forgot that's suppose to happen.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by The Batman

It never stops being sad when some fanboys, so desperate to have people love something as much as they do, complain about the criticisms fans have.

Thats the only logical reasoning I have for people who seem to actually be affected by fanboy reaction to this movie. Its like...get over it. Of course fans are more critical than your family and friends, who know little to nothing about how some of these characters are in the comics/cartoons/etc. Ignorance is bliss.

These "I liked everything about the movie, and if you didnt, you suck" fans tell you "The general audience liked it", like people were saying their views were the majority. Its like these fans are trying to tell themselves "Ok, everyone else liked it, so my opinion is validated, and these peoples arent cause they're negative".

I wish I could be as accepting about Talia's underwhelming role in this movie. But I'm not. Cause I actually care about the character and I don't go "SQUEEE" just because someone crammed a comic character in there without taking the time to make sure the character is interesting.

I think just about any fan of anything has been in a position where they found themselves defending something that they felt was getting bashed a little too much. It's no different than when people go out of their way to knock something down a peg when they feel it's being overrated.

Personally, I was satisfied with her role in the film because I knew it was coming, and I was worried about how it would effect Bane's role in the story. When I saw how it unfolded, I was pleasantly surprised with the way it gave Bane an added layer and still rendered him a crucial figure in the overall story. I also just really enjoyed the richness that Talia/Bane/Ra's backstories added to the overall story of the trilogy, how it accented the themes of fathers, surrogate fathers and legacies. It was one of main elements I found myself dwelling on a lot immediately after my first screening.

I do respect your opinion if you feel you got shortchanged on a good adaptation/characterization of Talia, you seem completely genuine in your disappointment and it's obvious that you're not someone just trying to hate on the movie. No one's asking you to change your opinion.

It's just easier for some fans to accept TDKR on its own terms, and it doesn't mean that they're "lesser" fans who don't respect the mythos, or that they're just throwing on the fanboy blinders and trying to praise everything about the movie.

[regwec]

Originally Posted by The Batman

It never stops being sad when some fanboys, so desperate to have people love something as much as they do, complain about the criticisms fans have.

Thats the only logical reasoning I have for people who seem to actually be affected by fanboy reaction to this movie. Its like...get over it. Of course fans are more critical than your family and friends, who know little to nothing about how some of these characters are in the comics/cartoons/etc. Ignorance is bliss.

These "I liked everything about the movie, and if you didnt, you suck" fans tell you "The general audience liked it", like people were saying their views were the majority. Its like these fans are trying to tell themselves "Ok, everyone else liked it, so my opinion is validated, and these peoples arent cause they're negative".

I wish I could be as accepting about Talia's underwhelming role in this movie. But I'm not. Cause I actually care about the character and I don't go "SQUEEE" just because someone crammed a comic character in there without taking the time to make sure the character is interesting.

Hear hear!

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

I was pleasantly surprised with the way it gave Bane an added layer and still rendered him a crucial figure in the overall story.

Did it?

My opinion is that it removed about six layers from Bane, gave him a new thin layer that was alien to everything we knew about his character, and subordinated him to another, tertiary character who had not been sufficiently developed to earn their centrality to the plot.

Imagine, during Batman final showdown with The Joker in TDK, it had been revealed that The Joker had really been working for Reese.

The effect on everything you had watched before would be much the same. It would remove a lot of the resonance of what The Joker said and did, while leaving you with a bland tertiary character who has suddenly been afforded a lot of importance.

The Tate/Talia twist was unnecessary, and it was cheap. The question is "why bother"? I think it may just be that Nolan felt obliged to put some kind of twist in what was otherwise a very simple story.

[BatLobsterRises]

I just really enjoyed the touch of humanity it gave Bane. It made him feel like a fully fleshed out protagonist with an arc of his own, rather than just a one-note monster. Even if we only got hints of his journey. It made me leave the movie craving a Bane prequel comic or something.

Now yes, if they had tried to pull that kind of twist with The Joker it would have been horrible for endless reasons. I liked it with Bane for the precise reason that it wasn't The Joker and it offered some further contrast from The Joker in that Bane is like a dark mirror of Bruce. Both had that impulse to risk themselves to protect the innocent. The environments they were raised in couldn't be more different though.

Anyway, that's talk for the Bane thread.

[Baneis8feettall]

Joker is polar opposite of Batman, Bane is his evil twin.

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by jmc

Significance is what I was referring to.

Ah, I see. While I agree, the character is still one that can and was tied to the main antagonist of both TDKR (presumably) and BB in regards to significance rather than a character that didn't have any ties to any characters of any real significance (i.e. Foley).

[Demon Hunter]

I didn't know that Talia was supposed to be in the movie and I was genuinely surprised when the twist happened. I loved it. Few scenes before it I was still a bit disappointed that Nolan decided to ignore the comics and had made Bane Ra's son when I clearly knew he wasn't supposed to be.
You know... spoiling the movie for yourself and then claiming something isn't important or wasn't a twist at all... I don't get that.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by regwec

Did it?

My opinion is that it removed about six layers from Bane, gave him a new thin layer that was alien to everything we knew about his character, and subordinated him to another, tertiary character who had not been sufficiently developed to earn their centrality to the plot.

Imagine, during Batman final showdown with The Joker in TDK, it had been revealed that The Joker had really been working for Reese.

The effect on everything you had watched before would be much the same. It would remove a lot of the resonance of what The Joker said and did, while leaving you with a bland tertiary character who has suddenly been afforded a lot of importance.

The Tate/Talia twist was unnecessary, and it was cheap. The question is "why bother"? I think it may just be that Nolan felt obliged to put some kind of twist in what was otherwise a very simple story.

Well said

[Van Petrol]

Originally Posted by regwec

Did it?

My opinion is that it removed about six layers from Bane, gave him a new thin layer that was alien to everything we knew about his character, and subordinated him to another, tertiary character who had not been sufficiently developed to earn their centrality to the plot.

Imagine, during Batman final showdown with The Joker in TDK, it had been revealed that The Joker had really been working for Reese.

The effect on everything you had watched before would be much the same. It would remove a lot of the resonance of what The Joker said and did, while leaving you with a bland tertiary character who has suddenly been afforded a lot of importance.

The Tate/Talia twist was unnecessary, and it was cheap. The question is "why bother"? I think it may just be that Nolan felt obliged to put some kind of twist in what was otherwise a very simple story.

Agree. Bane's abrupt end with no after thought at all just completed this for me.

[MagnarTheGreat]

Originally Posted by Demon Hunter

I didn't know that Talia was supposed to be in the movie and I was genuinely surprised when the twist happened. I loved it. Few scenes before it I was still a bit disappointed that Nolan decided to ignore the comics and had made Bane Ra's son when I clearly knew he wasn't supposed to be.
You know... spoiling the movie for yourself and then claiming something isn't important or wasn't a twist at all... I don't get that.

I was surprised at the heavy-handedness of the script in trying to mislead the audience into thinking that. It's funny looking back at comments from Lindy Hemming and Jonah Nolan now, Lindy Hemming said in a pre-release interview Bane is not a child in the film, "...he’s also an older character. He’s not a young kid. He’s an older man who as you see the film, you’ll know that he’s been around for a long time, so that’s as much as I can kind of tell you..." Oops! But Jonah gave some misleading comments to Sci Fi Magazine (August 2012 issue), "...we thought that the backstory of a kid raised in Hell really resonates with, and amplifies, Bruce's Wayne's backstory." I see what you did there Jonah!

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by MagnarTheGreat

I was surprised at the heavy-handedness of the script in trying to mislead the audience into thinking that. It's funny looking back at comments from Lindy Hemming and Jonah Nolan now, Lindy Hemming said in a pre-release interview Bane is not a child in the film, "...he’s also an older character. He’s not a young kid. He’s an older man who as you see the film, you’ll know that he’s been around for a long time, so that’s as much as I can kind of tell you..." Oops! But Jonah gave some misleading comments to Sci Fi Magazine (August 2012 issue), "...we thought that the backstory of a kid raised in Hell really resonates with, and amplifies, Bruce's Wayne's backstory." I see what you did there Jonah!

That's true, but at the same time the film ends up leaving Bane's true origins ambiguous. He does mention being "born in darkness", so it's possible he was born there too and could explain why he shows such protectiveness over Talia.

We'll probably never know for sure though.

[Demon Hunter]

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

That's true, but at the same time the film ends up leaving Bane's true origins ambiguous. He does mention being "born in darkness", so it's possible he was born there too and could explain why he shows such protectiveness over Talia.

We'll probably never know for sure though.

In the comic books isn't Bane born in a prison or at least sentenced to one as a young boy?