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Old 08-28-2012, 12:41 PM   #526
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I just saw this again last night and regardless of whether she was underutilized or poorly characterized, I think we can all agree that Marion Cotillard looked absolutely gorgeous in this movie.

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #527
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I just saw this again last night and regardless of whether she was underutilized or poorly characterized, I think we can all agree that Marion Cotillard looked absolutely gorgeous in this movie.
To be honest, I think she's probably the only part about the role that still made Miranda/Talia effective in the movie. If it had been any other, more ordinary actress, I think her part would have been far more bland.

It's amazing to me how much Marion can really pull out of a role, despite what little was put into it. As Mal in Inception, where she again had very little screen time, her character was devastating.

Also, I'm surprised nobody else (that I've seen) has mentioned how HUGE her breasts looked in the scene where she and Bruce had just broken into Bruce's mansion, and she was looking at the picture of Rachel. It's like the costuming department decided, "Well, you were just pregnant, so let's pick those puppies up TENFOLD!" and then told her to touch her elbows together behind her back every time she was on screen without a jacket.

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:50 PM   #528
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Yeah, 'cause Endless criticisms are always welcome, and praise should be short for a movie like TDKR.
I'm sure glad phrases like the bolded are relegated to lame attempts at sarcasm, and aren't statements that people have actually made regarding this movie. LOL.

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:57 PM   #529
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Of course, if everyone was praising it, you'd never want it to.
Maybe you are assuming to much.

There are many pages same posters keep saying same things over and over again. It's dumb. If i keep saying Talia was great,Marion did great job and how Talia is neccassary in every 5 pages it would be same.

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:14 PM   #530
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

^ I truly, truly doubt you would say "This discussion will never end" if the thread were constant praising of marion for five pages.

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:48 PM   #531
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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^ I truly, truly doubt you would say "This discussion will never end" if the thread were constant praising of marion for five pages.
There is nothing to wrong praising the actor you love. Especially in a thread dedicated to her. (Especially for a talented & beautiful woman like Marion Cottilard)

However, it's just same posts from same posters... There are pages of entire argument about why LOS connection or Talia needed etc. It's not better than explaining evulotion theory to a catholic priest at this point.

Most of the people like the character or at least allright with it comes up with good reasons. They posted Talia is quite evil in new comics, Bane,Talia & Ra's had connection in comics etc. They posted how it was important for story etc.

Haters keeps ignoring these and just "It was a cheap twist.Boo!" "French actress has french accent boo!" That's not even an argument. If you don't like it's fine, you don't have to post it 20 times to make it look like a fact. It still looks like hating. If it's gonna be such posts without any argument, at least new posters should do that. We already expressed our feelings. We must come up with something new & smart if this is still a debate.

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:50 PM   #532
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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To be honest, I think she's probably the only part about the role that still made Miranda/Talia effective in the movie. If it had been any other, more ordinary actress, I think her part would have been far more bland.
I couldn't disagree more. She scarcely seemed interested in the role, to me.

I suppose there wasn't much to merit her interest, to be fair, but she still signed the contract and took the money.

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:58 PM   #533
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I couldn't disagree more. She scarcely seemed interested in the role, to me.

I suppose there wasn't much to merit her interest, to be fair, but she still signed the contract and took the money.
Something must have caught her eye if she was willing to film it whilst she was pregnant. I swear there was an interview which said she was given many offers but TDKR was the only film she wanted to do.

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #534
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Also, I'm surprised nobody else (that I've seen) has mentioned how HUGE her breasts looked in the scene where she and Bruce had just broken into Bruce's mansion, and she was looking at the picture of Rachel. It's like the costuming department decided, "Well, you were just pregnant, so let's pick those puppies up TENFOLD!" and then told her to touch her elbows together behind her back every time she was on screen without a jacket.
Umm...yes! They looked miraculous marvelous delicious.

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #535
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Something must have caught her eye if she was willing to film it whilst she was pregnant. I swear there was an interview which said she was given many offers but TDKR was the only film she wanted to do.
Didn't she- and this is just a paraphrase- say that she agreed to do it because it was easy?

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:02 PM   #536
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I can see why she took it. It's a small role (small enough to work with her schedule especially after giving birth) in a HUGE movie. Plus, it gives her the oppurtunity to work with Nolan again. The pay is probably the biggest she's ever had in her (non-French) career as well.

It probably helped too that Nolan told her that she was who he had in mind when he was writing the character.

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:04 PM   #537
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Didn't she- and this is just a paraphrase- say that she agreed to do it because it was easy?
She may have but doesn't mean she didn't find it interesting. She mainly had talking scenes.

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:05 PM   #538
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

And she said she's been a huge fan of Batman since Batman 89.

Honestly, there's not too many people who wouldn't have taken a role in this movie.

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Old 08-28-2012, 06:17 PM   #539
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

That analysis basically just comes down to "She does a couple of things to manipulate Bruce so she can betray him for revenge, and she and Bane have the connection we're told they do in the film".

There's stuff to her character, just not much. Stating the obvious in an analysis doesn't grant her any more depth than she had in the film.

Saw this again today...Cotillard is really kind of just "there" as Tate. It's only when she finally reveals herself as Talia that her performance pops at all.

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Old 08-28-2012, 06:52 PM   #540
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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I couldn't disagree more. She scarcely seemed interested in the role, to me.

I suppose there wasn't much to merit her interest, to be fair, but she still signed the contract and took the money.
Really? I honestly thought she was really, for lack of better phrasing, captivating in the role, especially in her delivery (aside from the death, obviously ) after her reveal as Talia. Her accent shifted, her face was stone cold, and she seemed like a different person altogether.

As forced as her presence was after much thought, I came away feeling it was believable because of Marion's effectiveness.

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Umm...yes! They looked miraculous marvelous delicious.
Lol, they just looked awkward to me.

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Old 08-28-2012, 06:53 PM   #541
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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That analysis basically just comes down to "She does a couple of things to manipulate Bruce so she can betray him for revenge, and she and Bane have the connection we're told they do in the film".

There's stuff to her character, just not much. Stating the obvious in an analysis doesn't grant her any more depth than she had in the film.

Saw this again today...Cotillard is really kind of just "there" as Tate. It's only when she finally reveals herself as Talia that her performance pops at all.
That was their way of hiding her importance...I mean, with Neeson and Eckhardt they gave away early on in the films they were a bit crazy and over-the-top at times.

Tatelia was an exercise in tiny clues in her dialogue that most people wouldn't catch until a second viewing, or in my case, the first viewing knowing in advance she was Talia. It's not a flashy performance as Tate, but then again, Talia is not a flashy character in comics the far vast majority of the time...which is why I came to like the character when I was very young as it's not a villain that's a typical Batman rogue, someone that belongs locked in Arkham Asylum. I realize that seems to be what a lot of Batman fans want. Flashy nutjobs as Batman villains.

Though that's changed in the past 15 years, where she is more and more of an Arkham Asylum type of villain that doesn't even need Bruce/Batman to appear in some of her stories. Maybe that's helped her appeal with some people but not with me.

I think there's depth to Tate/child Talia/Talia's character, I mean her backstory is pretty elaborate and a trick the first time through for most people, but on a character interaction scale I give it low marks. In terms of the two female characters, on depth Miranda/Talia I give it to, and on character interaction, Selina obviously takes that category.


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Old 08-28-2012, 07:23 PM   #542
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

If you were going to remove either Bane or Talia from the script, and re-apportion the actions and motives of one to the other, making the necessary adjustments, which would you choose?

I think most people would agree that the movie could exist in much the same state without the "twist" and the crossover in purpose between Talia and Bane. So which is the more dispensable?

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Old 08-28-2012, 07:24 PM   #543
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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And she said she's been a huge fan of Batman since Batman 89.

Honestly, there's not too many people who wouldn't have taken a role in this movie.
Imagine if you're given the chance to deliver the "No more dead cops" line in the movie :P

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Old 08-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #544
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If you were going to remove either Bane or Talia from the script, and re-apportion the actions and motives of one to the other, making the necessary adjustments, which would you choose?

I think most people would agree that the movie could exist in much the same state without the "twist" and the crossover in purpose between Talia and Bane. So which is the more dispensable?
I look at it like less of a view of, "They should have gotten rid of her," and more from the standpoint of, "This should have been a two-parter, so we could care more about her character and her relationship with Bruce." Excuse the brevity.

I feel her character could have been a greater disservice to the film had it been underperformed (in my opinion), but she also could have stood as one of the best parts of the series had she had time to develop. Honestly, I've been wishing we could have seen more from Talia since the first time I've seen The Dark Knight Rises. Just by knowing the character from the comics, and seeing how she played out on screen, I feel like the two-parter idea would have served Talia far more than it did any other character.

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Old 08-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #545
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I look at it like less of a view of, "They should have gotten rid of her," and more from the standpoint of, "This should have been a two-parter, so we could care more about her character and her relationship with Bruce." Excuse the brevity.
A two parter would have made this the greatest on-screen superhero story ever IMO.

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Old 08-28-2012, 08:05 PM   #546
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Imagine if you're given the chance to deliver the "No more dead cops" line in the movie :P
I yelled it endlessly during the Heinz field shoot. Even when they told us not to say anything.

They uncooly didn't put it in the final film.

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Old 08-28-2012, 08:22 PM   #547
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I yelled it endlessly during the Heinz field shoot. Even when they told us not to say anything.

They uncooly didn't put it in the final film.
You were there? That must've been a memorable day!

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Old 08-28-2012, 08:43 PM   #548
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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If you were going to remove either Bane or Talia from the script, and re-apportion the actions and motives of one to the other, making the necessary adjustments, which would you choose?

I think most people would agree that the movie could exist in much the same state without the "twist" and the crossover in purpose between Talia and Bane. So which is the more dispensable?
Well, you couldn't really have Bane accomplish what Miranda did: invest in the fusion reactor and become a member of the Wayne Enterprises board. That element serves multiple purposes to the story:

- it gives Bruce some culpability in the creation of the nuke, almost serving as an analogy to his work as Batman...in both cases his impulse to do good had unforeseen negative consequences.

- it gives Wayne Enterprises/Lucius Fox an important role to play in the story

- Does all of this without making it seem like a huge coincidence that Bruce just happened to develop this fusion reactor that could be turned into a nuke that his enemies use against him...instead it's there by the design of the LOS.

Now, obviously Bane was a much cooler character in this film, so if I had to choose I'd keep him over Talia. But I think it would have to be a drastically different movie if you didn't have the two of them. Without Talia I think the whole LOS return is kind of pointless. Now I know a lot of people would have rather seen Bane's endgame simply be the revolution with him leading his own band of mercs...but again, that's a drastically different film.

Personally, I thought incorporating elements like the League of Shadows, Ra's and Talia into Bane's backstory did wonders for bringing the story full circle. Not just in terms of having the plot connect, but in terms of how they all relate to the themes present in Bruce's character arc, legacy in particular.

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Old 08-28-2012, 09:25 PM   #549
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There is nothing to wrong praising the actor you love.
Wow. I was at least hoping you'd at least try to prove me wrong.

Just as I figured, I wasn't assuming at all.

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Old 08-28-2012, 10:21 PM   #550
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Marion was really good in the revelation scene.

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