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Old 12-26-2012, 07:33 PM   #801
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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lol; if we had gotten a more comics accurate version of their relationship, we might have gotten something like this instead:

If only. Most are upset about Talia inclusion, which I can relate to. I'm most upset at how underdeveloped her character was given the depth and richness she has in the mythos.

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Old 12-26-2012, 07:36 PM   #802
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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It looks like Marion offered several takes of the infamous death scene. Sounds like the talk about that scene reached even them. It does make me wonder though if Marion was unhappy with how she was painted in that scene and if it means that she won't work with Nolan again (assuming of course that Nolan wants to work with her again). And funny that he mentioned that Mila looks like Marion because I remember a lot of people noticing too that Mila looks like a younger Marion Cotillard.

Interview with Guillaume Canet (Marion's boyfriend and director of Blood Ties) from the Dec/Jan French issue of Premiere Magazine:



http://marion-cotillard.org/news-rum...te-on-set-pics
Eeek! Guillaume doesn't sound too happy with the whole situation. I wonder if this will potentially throw a spanner in the works regarding any more collaborations between Marion and Chris Nolan. I sure hope not.

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Old 12-26-2012, 08:01 PM   #803
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I’m not sure if it’s just me that saw the moment like this, but back at the fireplace scene where Talia responds to Bruce by saying “Not Always” after he had remarked on how he had thought that she was from a wealthy family, it kind of came off as though Talia had a moment where she wasn’t responding as “Miranda” but instead as “Talia”. There was definitely some sense of sadness and regret in her tone when she said that. I thought it was a great delivery from Marion’s end.

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Old 12-26-2012, 08:11 PM   #804
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

^ I think you're right. I've always seen it that way.

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Old 12-26-2012, 08:15 PM   #805
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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^ I think you're right. I've always seen it that way.
Same here.

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Old 12-26-2012, 09:14 PM   #806
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Man, it would have been more interesting to see Talia's reaction if we were presented with a scenario, where during one of their supposed intimate moments, Bruce reveals to Talia (without Bane or any of her henchmen there) that he knows who she really is.

On another note, in regards to the different takes that Nolan has of Marion's scenes in TDKR; one thing that I did wish that they had gone with instead of what we eventually got was this:





When the first theatrical trailer came out, some noted/speculated on how Marion must have been acting in as a means of some happiness for the recluse Bruce as shown by their expressions towards each other in these shots.

However, in the takes that we eventually got for the scene, Bruce came off as more awkward with Miranda while Miranda displayed frustration, mixed with some sarcasm, and some sense of contempt for Bruce's remarks and such.

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Old 12-27-2012, 11:32 AM   #807
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

I loved Talia's reveal.

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Old 12-27-2012, 11:46 AM   #808
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Ja, her reveal is great. I still can't believe that her death looks so funny.

And I still think she should've been called Nyssa.

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Old 12-27-2012, 11:48 AM   #809
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

The fact this was Nolan and his editor's fault doesn't surprise me one little bit.

Nothing against him, but if you're gonna ***** about choices like the batvoice or talia's death scene then the person directing the actors is just as responsible if not moreso than they are, especially when we're talking about two oscar winners here.

It's obvious they were capable of something different if the director demanded it, but he didn't. I get sick of people bashing great actors and actresses for things that went wrong with the collaboration itself.

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Old 12-27-2012, 11:54 AM   #810
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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The fact this was Nolan and his editor's fault doesn't surprise me one little bit.

Nothing against him, but if you're gonna ***** about choices like the batvoice or talia's death scene then the person directing the actors is just as responsible if not moreso than they are, especially when we're talking about two oscar winners here.

It's obvious they were capable of something different if the director demanded it, but he didn't. I get sick of people bashing great actors and actresses for things that went wrong with the collaboration itself.
She has already proven to be a great actress, but he's in control here obviously. It's not that she improvised her whole part. Was he afraid? starstruck? or both?

Or does he have a crush?

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:04 PM   #811
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

@ Batman jr.
I don't know. It doesn't really matter at this point to be honest, what's done is done and whether Nolan still likes the take he chose the most or not he's far too proud to release another cut. It's pointless throwing out blame or speculating for what else could have been at this point, and besides not everyone hated it.

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Yeah, I'm all about subtext. I'm pretty sure I could watch two hours of monkeys mating if it had a mass of subtext underneath it all. :o
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:05 PM   #812
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We shall never know Nevincah.

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:18 PM   #813
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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If only. Most are upset about Talia inclusion, which I can relate to. I'm most upset at how underdeveloped her character was given the depth and richness she has in the mythos.
She was misused for sure IMO. She's not just Ra's-Lite, she's a far better character than that.

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Yeah, I'm all about subtext. I'm pretty sure I could watch two hours of monkeys mating if it had a mass of subtext underneath it all. :o
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:36 PM   #814
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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The fact this was Nolan and his editor's fault doesn't surprise me one little bit.

Nothing against him, but if you're gonna ***** about choices like the batvoice or talia's death scene then the person directing the actors is just as responsible if not moreso than they are, especially when we're talking about two oscar winners here.

It's obvious they were capable of something different if the director demanded it, but he didn't. I get sick of people bashing great actors and actresses for things that went wrong with the collaboration itself.
Yeah, for all his brilliance, Nolan really seems prone to these weird and frankly quite baffling choices/decisions. Every genius has his dark-side I guess...oh, and now I've remembered Wally saying that he likes Michael Bay's movies. Then again, as clicheic as it sounds, nobody's perfect.

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #815
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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Yeah, for all his brilliance, Nolan really seems prone to these weird and frankly quite baffling choices/decisions. Every genius has his dark-side I guess...oh, and now I've remembered Wally saying that he likes Michael Bay's movies. Then again, as clicheic as it sounds, nobody's perfect.

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Yeah, I'm all about subtext. I'm pretty sure I could watch two hours of monkeys mating if it had a mass of subtext underneath it all. :o
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:28 PM   #816
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

Ja, Nolan gives us masterful casting & rich stories combined with silly stuff.

"Rachel Dawes..." *whispers*

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:32 PM   #817
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Yeah, and I don't like to knock him for it much because it's at least consistent. The one film with the least of it is TDK, but then the editors were working their butts off to give Heath's role the most respectful sendoff possible so I suspect that could have had something to do with it. Most people used to put it down to Goyer's writing but since TDKR that is somewhat debateable, I think Nolan enjoys his cheese too for the most part.

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Yeah, I'm all about subtext. I'm pretty sure I could watch two hours of monkeys mating if it had a mass of subtext underneath it all. :o
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:38 PM   #818
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Yeah, and I don't like to knock him for it much because it's at least consistent. The one film with the least of it is TDK, but then the editors were working their butts off to give Heath's role the most respectful sendoff possible so I suspect that could have had something to do with it. Most people used to put it down to Goyer's writing but since TDKR that is somewhat debateable, I think Nolan enjoys his cheese too for the most part.
Well... I know what you mean ()

But the positive part, the casting, is among the strongest of all directors:

1) He made me a Christian Bale fan. You should've seen me checking out movies like Rescue Dawn & Harsh Times!

2) He dared to cast Heath (dear God, that outcry). Why? "because he's fearless..."

3) He made me a Marion (with Inception) & "Annefan". They are on their ways to become huge, make no mistake, especially the latter.

4) He let Oldman finally bring out his good guy side for real

So yeah, I'll always respect the man.


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Old 12-27-2012, 01:41 PM   #819
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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The fact this was Nolan and his editor's fault doesn't surprise me one little bit.

Nothing against him, but if you're gonna ***** about choices like the batvoice or talia's death scene then the person directing the actors is just as responsible if not moreso than they are, especially when we're talking about two oscar winners here.

It's obvious they were capable of something different if the director demanded it, but he didn't. I get sick of people bashing great actors and actresses for things that went wrong with the collaboration itself.
Completely agree.

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #820
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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She was misused for sure IMO. She's not just Ra's-Lite, she's a far better character than that.
Absolutely. It's a darn shame she wasn't utilised and tapped into better.

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:46 PM   #821
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

But if she would've been in it more, there would've been complaints like "she takes time away from Catwoman", "we don't need to know her story" "why couldn't they bring back Ra's more" etc.

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:53 PM   #822
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

For all we know maybe Nolan's original intention was just to have Talia as the main female character. Though given Jonah's insistence on Selina being included, as well as Marion's light work schedule, thing's changed.

That reminds me, wasn't there rumblings early in pre-production that Nolan originally offered Marion the pick of either the Selina role or Talia role?

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Old 12-27-2012, 02:00 PM   #823
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I seem to vaguely remember that yeah. It was at least "whispered in the dark".

He really wanted to work with her, but I'm so glad we got Anne for Selina.

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Old 12-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #824
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Default Re: Marion Cotillard as Miranda Tate VIII (Team Frenchie Edition)

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For all we know maybe Nolan's original intention was just to have Talia as the main female character. Though given Jonah's insistence on Selina being included, as well as Marion's light work schedule, thing's changed.

That reminds me, wasn't there rumblings early in pre-production that Nolan originally offered Marion the pick of either the Selina role or Talia role?
Wow. The more I think about it, that's a very fascinating idea and makes quite a bit of sense. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case at all, Van.

I'm glad Selina was included in the end but I think before either was announced it was always a question of "Selina or Talia?" and I always got the vibe that Nolan would want to go for the femme fatale that was less comic booky and more Bond-ish so to speak.

Even the Selina we got didn't have all the facets Catwoman is known for, just the very core traits like jewel thievary and a suit. Still a lot better than Miranda/Talia who was thoroughly underdeveloped and not written as well IMO.

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #825
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Wow. The more I think about it, that's a very fascinating idea and makes quite a bit of sense. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case at all, Van.

I'm glad Selina was included in the end but I think before either was announced it was always a question of "Selina or Talia?" and I always got the vibe that Nolan would want to go for the femme fatale that was less comic booky and more Bond-ish so to speak.

Even the Selina we got didn't have all the facets Catwoman is known for, just the very core traits like jewel thievary and a suit. Still a lot better than Miranda/Talia who was thoroughly underdeveloped and not written as well IMO.
It does make me wonder. Nolan's apparent disapproval for Talia's inclusion in Justice League Mortal? I reckon he may of at least at the back of his mind had the idea of brining the trilogy full circle with Talia's eventual inclusion as well as possibly the return of the Joker if Heath was still with us.

At the end of the day, Ra's was a huge part of [i]this[/] Batman's creation and including Talia as a way of brining things full circle back to the very beginning for Bruce and Batman would make sense. It's just a shame that we really got a throw-away character with the 'Talia' name tag, rather than a more fleshed and deeper character akin to how she is presented in the comics.

I know I'll more than likely get destroyed for this, but the more I think about it and the more I watch TDKR, I find that the Selina/Catwoman character is one that isn't really essential to the story nor is it one that if taken out would be very detrimental to the structure of the story. At most times she feels more tacked on than anything, likely due to Jonah's insistence on having her worked into the story. Apart from stealing Bruce's fingerprints I don't see where exactly she plays into the main structure of the story, but rather just hangs on to it for the ride.

Given Marion's light schedule I presume Nolan saw the opportunity to include another iconic character from the mythos which would please the fanboys and fangirls, while also subsidising and hgelping fill the void of the female charcter part for an underutilised Talia character that quite possibly due to Marion's able commitment may not have been what Nolan truly originally intended her (Talia) to have been.

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