Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux

[American Maid]

I'm going to wind up having a couple of posts, too, since I'm trying to respond by topic.

Originally Posted by elizah72

Yes. He does not have the right to make the decision to subjugate humanity and force them into peace under his thumb, that is doing it wrong. But at the same time, in a way isn't that what Daddy Odin has been doing for all the 9 realms? And didn't big brother go down to Jotunheim with those same intentions of making them fall under his thumb and fear him. So he is following by example, what he does is really not all that different from what he sees Odin and Thor do in those situations.
And there will always be those who say that "what gives you the right to decide?" etc etc... but in truth, we do need order and someone needs to create that order. We cannot rely upon ourselves with no rules or police or leaders and just live in peace. It's just not possible for humanity (at least not at this stage in our evolution).

[QUOTE=jaqua99;24867101]

But for Odin, it is a little different. He is the king of asgard, and his people love and respect him. He isn't necessarily deciding how the asgardians live, in the sense that loki was deciding how mankind would live. Odin is Agard's ruler, and his people love and respect them. He is their king, opposed to just deciding how they should live. Af for the 9 realms, well he is the king of Asgard. He will do what he must to protect the 9 realms, but I wouldn't go as far to say that he is telling them how to live. Jotenheim, yeah, but they attacked earth and were going to take it over or whatever. The Asgardians defeated them, and took the source of their power, so they won't attack again (we can assume this is the reason). Again, I think it's slightly different then just declaring yourself king, cause you think you know what's best for them. Slightly different

Originally Posted by elizah72

it is and yet, I feel certain Laufey would have been like "what gives him the right to keep my people down. What gives him the right to keep my people from expanding and growing across the cosmos?" So order is needed and leaders are necessary in order to keep the peace, even on Midgard, because we have people like Laufey here too, who would use bloodshed in the furthering of their own group.

Elements I glean from the above:
Someone has to be in charge. People need structure; they can't rule themselves.
Who gets to decide who is in charge?
What gives someone else the right to decide to take charge of where I live?

In response to which I quote:
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Yes, there needs to be structure, but the legitimacy arises from the people. And the people need to decide what the governance should be, or it won't really be accepted. And the people ultimately should be the ones who choose their leaders.

That's why Loki's actions are wrong, even if well-intentioned. And ultimately, he really can't know what's best for Earth's peoples. As for the Jotun, they should not be able to infringe on other peoples.

Asgard, as I've observed, is more of a feudal system. Since there's not a divine over Odin granting him legitimacy, it's not as clear how his authority is derived, although Jon suggests it's again the will of the people.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I did agree with what you were saying about him taking some pleasure in fear, and equating fear to respect (since he can't get respect through love, then through fear)... but also Thor equates fear with respect in the beginning of Thor 1. and that is an evil element.

Originally Posted by elizah72

One issue is in order for Loki to get the respect and love from Odin he desires, and be considered worthy, he must change how he goes about his good intentions. Loki definitely thinks two wrongs make a right, and the end justifies the means, but I'm sure Odin would not agree. So I think in order for Loki to get the approval he craves, he's got to do something good, and do it in the right away, so that Odin does approve and has a chance to show Loki that. And that is a question, whether Loki is capable of pulling that off, doing something right, and doing it with honorable methods? And not only that can he do it without the clichéd old, the character must sacrifice his life in order to redeem himself? Because that is very clichéd story element and I don't want to see Loki die like that. I want to see something new!

I think There will be something that will quench that thirst, and put an end to the madness, maybe in Thor 2, but certainly by the end of the series. What that will be I don't know. I think Loki needs that self worth and place in the world, and if he's able to find it then that may allow him to leg go of that hate, but I don't feel that his family can provide it for him. If anyone who is already MCU established, that would be Frigga since he does not appear to hate her, and has no reason to really. Other than that, again possibly a story with Sigyn could send him in that direction but as I've stated they'd have to be really really careful how they told and and definitely make some serious changes with how that relationship was depicted in the comics in order to not send a dangerous message.

One comment about thirst-quenching: as I'm using it, that refers to the thing that he is missing. He is seeking power to quench that thirst, but per our earlier discussion, what he appears to really need is respect and appreciation, from the people around him to be sure. I think he also needs to develop it for himself. Having people fear him might serve as a proxy, but it would be a poor substitute.

I agree with Elizah's comments about some of the things Loki would need to do to gain the approval he craves.

I also think his animosity toward Thor arises out of this primary thirst. It would seem he resents Thor for having the acceptance of those around him. He is literally the tow-haired child of the family. If the primary deficit is addressed, then I think this secondary issue will be abated.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Aging Fangirl

I love complex psychological studies, especially those of characters whose minds are like "bags of cats".

Originally Posted by Aging Fangirl

I can agree with this to an extent, but there is definitely a cruel element to Loki's character. I don't know if it's due to nature or nurture - I'm asssuming there are centries worth of MCU Thor/Loki back story we're not yet privy to - but it's there. Having said that, I have to disagree with this:

<Day of triumph will come with time>

I don't think Loki had any intention of Thor ever coming back... . That scene in Thor I where he appears to Thor in the SHIELD interrogation room ... still gives me chills.

I agree that his intention might have been to do what he felt was best for Asguard, but his methods left no room at all for brotherly feeling.

Regarding the earlier scene that you quoted, where Thor had just overturned the table, and Loki tells him his rule will come with time--at that moment, do you think Loki was anticipating Thor being exiled?

Me, I'm not so certain. For one, neither of the boys are as mature or as wise as Odin. For another, as that scene plays out, Loki seems to react like this situation is spinning a little bit out of his control.

I agree, though, that he rolls with what develops and leverages it pretty ruthlessly later on to secure his own power.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Aging Fangirl

I don't think Loki had any intention of Thor ever coming back. Quite the opposite, he wanted Thor permanently out of the way. That scene in Thor I where he appears to Thor in the SHIELD interrogation room ... still gives me chills. Those lies he told -- 'Father is dead, Mother doesn't want to see you, peace with Jotunheim is contingent on you staying where you are' -- were calculated to hurt in the worst possible way, and would only hold traction if Thor stayed right where he was. Not to mention the fact that permanent exile on Midgard with no access to Idun's apples meant nothing less than a death sentence.

I agree that his intention might have been to do what he felt was best for Asguard, but his methods left no room at all for brotherly feeling.

The "it will come in time" line is prior to all of that actually. prior to him deciding that he was what is best for Asgard not Thor. Up until then he figures Thor will be king, but when he's really ready, and Loki doesn't feel he is so he throws in some diversions to push it back. I think he maybe loves Asgard more than he loves Thor, in fact I'd definitely say that or he could not have done what he did. But that doesn't negate any feeling of love he had or still has for Thor. He just again felt that the end justified the means and was doing what was best for Asgard combined with jealousy, insecurity, lack of self worth of course. Loki is not just one thing going on, and I'm not saying love of Asgard alone motivates him, not at all. But back to that very bad no-no Loki did at the Shield base, saying those things to Thor. The only way to convince Thor to give up on the idea of returning is to make him think that father was dead and mother hates him, and then with Thor out of the way, Asgard is no longer in danger from his "idiotic" rule. And he'd decided at that point (at Shield) that Thor was definitely not what was best for Asgard and it was up to him to save Asgard from Thor's rule, but not prior during the "it will come" scene at the beginning.

Might I point out also, that Thor being mortal at that time, and Loki not, if he really had no love for his brother and only wanted him out of the way permanently, I'm pretty sure he could have killed him then and there, with no one knowing (could have told his parents Shield killed him) but he hadn't come to the point to have to make that choice yet between his brother and Asgard. Really there is a development over time of his thinking motivations and feelings, it's not just all the same all throughout.

from a Tom interview earlier this year....

In the heart of Loki there is the heart of a lost child and around it he’s wrapped in a cloak of hatred and anger and pain and enormous power. But I think it’s much more exciting if I think there’s always a possibility (for redemption) because then it makes him three-dimensional, it makes him complex, and you hope some people in the audience are fighting for that. It’s part of Thor’s motivation. It’s part of what makes Thor a good character, because Thor is fighting for his brother back. He wants his brother! He appeals to their childhood in this film, he says, “We fought together, played together. Do you remember none of that?” And Loki’s response is, “I remember a shadow.” So I hope that somewhere down the line – I haven’t seen a script for Thor 2 – I hope that somewhere in Thor 2 that’s something that is expanded on. I keep finding myself saying, I can’t remember who said it, but, “The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference” and Loki is not indifferent to Thor. Loki hates Thor, which must mean that underneath that he still loves him.

Originally Posted by Silvermoon

MTV's Splashpage has Loki as one of the "Heroes of 2012" (in the sense of "list of individuals who made a major impact on the comic book movie community in 2012.") - the guest blogger writing about it was one of the masterminds behind "Project Wendy" (still slightly bummed I let myself miss out on participating... I'm an introvert that doesn't like taking pictures of myself, and I was too lazy to come up with a clever alternative like some other people did):

Yes, Thomas, people have been saying nice things about you again...



Tom says, don't be so shy next time Silvermoon. He's a very pleasant chap, really.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Regarding the earlier scene that you quoted, where Thor had just overturned the table, and Loki tells him his rule will come with time--at that moment, do you think Loki was anticipating Thor being exiled?

no I think he was anticipating Thor would be king eventually when he was ready, but he was also purposely trying to get him to aggravate Odin, so that it wouldn't come too soon, because Thor really isn't ready. And this had probably gone on for a while.

I think the speech Loki gives in the pre coronation deleted scene is him being truthful actually. and he's also being truthful in the healing room scene where he says he' loves Thor more dearly than any of you. But those feeling twist around on themselves during the course of the film for various reasons.

Me, I'm not so certain. For one, neither of the boys are as mature or as wise as Odin. For another, as that scene plays out, Loki seems to react like this situation is spinning a little bit out of his control.

I think he was hoping that Odin would show up just before they land on Jotunheim and chastise Thor and then Thor being king would be put off for a bit, and that was all the goal he had *at that time*. I definitely think things got out of his control quickly and one of my favorite little things is when they first land on Jotunheim, and Loki has this "whoah. *** just got real" look in his face. LOL

Originally Posted by American Maid

Elements I glean from the above:
Someone has to be in charge. People need structure; they can't rule themselves.
Who gets to decide who is in charge?
What gives someone else the right to decide to take charge of where I live?

In response to which I quote:
"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

Yup. But did all the 9 realms consent to being governed by Odin and the Asgardians? Probably not. And that's what may very well be the most exciting and interesting part of Thor 2, I hope.

Originally Posted by American Maid

One comment about thirst-quenching: as I'm using it, that refers to the thing that he is missing. He is seeking power to quench that thirst, but per our earlier discussion, what he appears to really need is respect and appreciation, from the people around him to be sure. I think he also needs to develop it for himself. Having people fear him might serve as a proxy, but it would be a poor substitute.

I agree with Elizah's comments about some of the things Loki would need to do to gain the approval he craves.

I also think his animosity toward Thor arises out of this primary thirst. It would seem he resents Thor for having the acceptance of those around him. He is literally the tow-haired child of the family. If the primary deficit is addressed, then I think this secondary issue will be abated.

Yes. I would agree. But certainly I don't see Thor as being able to do that, he is too much the focal point of Loki's rage, but perhaps Frigga, or Odin, or someone else could help him with that.

[Aging Fangirl]

Originally Posted by American Maid

Regarding the earlier scene that you quoted, where Thor had just overturned the table, and Loki tells him his rule will come with time--at that moment, do you think Loki was anticipating Thor being exiled?

Good point! I should probably go back and watch the movie again to be sure I have my timeline straight. At that point, Loki had not yet even planted the germ of an idea in Thor's head that would eventually result in his exile.

I agree, though, that he rolls with what develops and leverages it pretty ruthlessly later on to secure his own power.

Absolutely!

Based on the timeline, I must concede that Loki's idea of Thor being his brother had also changed drastically by then, but even so, he didn't have to appear before Thor and tell him what he did. That was intentional cruelty.

Here's a question I've wondered about (though it's probably already been discussed). Loki was well aware of how easy it would be to influence Thor. As clever as he was, it would have been so simple for him to rule from the sidelines. I wonder why he even bothered fiddling with the coronation at all? (And before you say it, yes I know it would have made for a much shorter movie. Just trying to follow his thought processes.)

[elizah72]

I think because while Thor might have been easy to influence, he was also rather hot headed and hard to control, those scenes where Thor decides to go down to Jotunheim and bash some heads in is perfect example. So Loki would certainly have realized this. He can manipulate to some extent, but he's playing with fire, and that is not what's best for Asgard either.

[Aging Fangirl]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Yes, Thomas, people have been saying nice things about you again...

Okay, that does it. I've just got to indluge my fangirl moment.

That man has got the most adorable squint I've ever seen. Probably needs corrective lenses.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

I think because while Thor might have been easy to influence, he was also rather hot headed and hard to control, those scenes where Thor decides to go down to Jotunheim and bash some heads in is perfect example. So Loki would certainly have realized this. He can manipulate to some extent, but he's playing with fire, and that is not what's best for Asgard either.

LOL.....you can't look back at that, and look at thor, and be like, what a ****ing hot headed idiot haha. Seriously, like..seriously lol

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

LOL.....you can't look back at that, and look at thor, and be like, what a ****ing hot headed idiot haha. Seriously, like..seriously lol

Of course I can. Because he was.

guess we've found another agree to disagree thingy.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

it is and yet, I feel certain Laufey would have been like "what gives him the right to keep my people down. What gives him the right to keep my people from expanding and growing across the cosmos?" So order is needed and leaders are necessary in order to keep the peace, even on Midgard, because we have people like Laufey here too, who would use bloodshed in the furthering of their own group.



The moment you say it is unquenchable, it kind of does go into one dimension villain land. I'm sorry it really does. Because once there is nothing that will satisfy or stop it, all the deeply rooted pain that those feelings came from is obsolete. it means nothing at that point, and the character has lost all humanity.

Think what I said about Faith on Buffy a few posts ago, certainly there were moments that people could have wondered if her hatred jealousy and need to harm Buffy was unquenchable, but yet she did stop hating Buffy and find that peace in the end. That's what made her a great character and a great story arc, and not just purely and simply a villain.

I wish I could remember better what happened with Callisto and Xena on that series too, they managed to redeem her in an interesting and different way, and of course Xena herself committed some atrocities before becoming a hero, and yet she was always troubled/tortured by her acts from the past (a big part of which is where Callisto as a villain came from).

In regards to Thanos and Death, from my understanding from what I've read, if he received Death's love somehow then that thirst for killing may very well be quenched. He would no longer feel the need to impress her by killing everything for her because he thinks that's what she wants, he would have her love already. he may still have desire for power but he would likely no longer feel the need to kill indiscriminantly. So in that way, I dont think that Thanos' need to kill is unquenchable. But from my understanding of her character, what he doesn't understand is she doesn't want the death of all things, she wants balance for the most part, with perhaps a slight advantage to her sometimes, because if all things are dead, then she has no place in the world herself, nothing for her to do, similar to the story where nothing dies. There was also reference in a character bio to Death not being able to stand suffering, which makes sense since suffering often ends in Death. So the suffering that Thanos creates (such as with his "granddaughter") horrifies her, but he can't understand why it wouldn't impress her. Or why him being all poweful wouldnt impress her, she wants balance in all things, even their potential relationship. So it's an endless circle for them, unless Thanos can suddenly figure out that what she wants is balance and he needs to keep that balance for her so she will love him (and that doesnt mean killing *everything*). So I believe her desire is balance and Thanos doesn't understand that about her and so keeps going about wooing her the wrong way, just as Loki keeps trying to do the right thing to impress Odin but in the wrong way. The question is can Loki or Thanos ever accomplish their goals in the right way? And that is what makes them multidimensional, btw, not just a tragic past and wounded emotions, but as soon as you say that nothing will quench that desire for revenge or killing, *absolutely nothing* that is when they go into 1 dimensional villain land again, no matter the past.

I see what you are saying. But it doesn't change the fact that there IS all that characterization there. Like I said, I didn't have time to really think about it, so at that point in time, since I couldn't figure out what would satisfy loki's hunger, i just said at the moment, nothing. Obviously if a character is rooted in THAT much pain, with trying to accomplish the goal, the possibility of removing the pain IS MOST CERTAINLY THERE. that is what you are essentially saying, correct? Saying loki's thirst is unquenchable is wrong, I just sorta jumped to that conclusion cause i couldnt think of anything that could quench it. The bigger issue, I think, as you do too, is not whether or not the the thirst is quenchable, but how they go about quenching it in the best way for for their own well being.

with that being said, I still can't really formulate an idea as to what would quench loki's thirst. I probably could, but my mind is jumping from marvel film to marvel film right now. That is something loki will have to figure out for himself. I think, that longing to get rid of that thirst is what makes a character so interesting.

Which is what makes thanos AND loki my two favorite villains. Thanos has sort of actually turned into an antihero. After Marvel: The End, once he got his fill of power and literally destroyed the marvel universe, he simply wasn't the same titan anymore. Not the same titan who would kill and kill for death. Which is basically a good example of what you were saying. Again, i think that longing to get rid of that thirst is what makes a character so interesting, which is why I prefer Thanos when he was willing to kill in death's name

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Of course I can. Because he was.

guess we've found another agree to disagree thingy.

no no no, we are agreeing on that. It's just the way I worded it lol

What I meant was that, it was so laughable at how..horrible thor was, that it is completely natural, and expected to laugh at him for his wrecklessness.

we agree on that, I think it was hilarious, he's yelling at odin as if he somehow knows better. Okay Thor, keep running your mouth lol

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I see what you are saying. But it doesn't change the fact that there IS all that characterization there. Like I said, I didn't have time to really think about it, so at that point in time, since I couldn't figure out what would satisfy loki's hunger, i just said at the moment, nothing. Obviously if a character is rooted in THAT much pain, with trying to accomplish the goal, the possibility of removing the pain IS MOST CERTAINLY THERE. that is what you are essentially saying, correct? Saying loki's thirst is unquenchable is wrong, I just sorta jumped to that conclusion cause i couldnt think of anything that could quench it. The bigger issue, I think, as you do too, is not whether or not the the thirst is quenchable, but how they go about quenching it in the best way for for their own well being.

yes.

with that being said, I still can't really formulate an idea as to what would quench loki's thirst. I probably could, but my mind is jumping from marvel film to marvel film right now. That is something loki will have to figure out for himself. I think, that longing to get rid of that thirst is what makes a character so interesting.

yes again, and it is tough to think of what could do it. But I'm sure there are better writers than me that have worked on it, and they have a freakin' awesome actor for the job, so I have faith that it can be done, if they choose to go in that direction.

Which is what makes thanos AND loki my two favorite villains. Thanos has sort of actually turned into an antihero. After Marvel: The End, once he got his fill of power and literally destroyed the marvel universe, he simply wasn't the same titan anymore. Not the same titan who would kill and kill for death. Which is basically a good example of what you were saying. Again, i think that longing to get rid of that thirst is what makes a character so interesting, which is why I prefer Thanos when he was willing to kill in death's name

I had read that too about him yes, and I think he will be a really really interesting villain for the MCU. Maybe not as developed as Loki but still, should be interesting. The whole Mistress Death - Thanos love affair is quite intriguing. (wonder if there will be a big Thanos fangirl revolution as a result? lol!) Is he cast yet for A2?

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

no no no, we are agreeing on that. It's just the way I worded it lol

What I meant was that, it was so laughable at how..horrible thor was, that it is completely natural, and expected to laugh at him for his wrecklessness.

we agree on that, I think it was hilarious, he's yelling at odin as if he somehow knows better. Okay Thor, keep running your mouth lol

oh, okay i was a little surprised when I thought that you didnt' agree. LOL

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

yes.



yes again, and it is tough to think of what could do it. But I'm sure there are better writers than me that have worked on it, and they have a freakin' awesome actor for the job, so I have faith that it can be done, if they choose to go in that direction.



I had read that too about him yes, and I think he will be a really really interesting villain for the MCU. Maybe not as developed as Loki but still, should be interesting. The whole Mistress Death - Thanos love affair is quite intriguing. (wonder if there will be a big Thanos fangirl revolution as a result? lol!) Is he cast yet for A2?

Agreed on all accounts..

Thanos certainly can be developed as much as loki. But since chances are we won't get a full history on his character like we have had for loki, the oppritunity may not be there to ellaborate on his past. He will certainly be a great villain, a very very complex individual. While I would love to see thanos as the way he is, I don't think he will be too deep. Maybe a little past history. But I think the majority of his personality and emotional state will simply be the love for death, and the desire to destroy. more one dimensional than he really is. But that totally works on screen. Especially for a villain that is a threat to the entire universe. Infact, I think it would be better, makes him more scary

[elizah72]

Note by the way Eccleston was quoted by someone on twitter a while back (from an event) as saying that he was playing a bad guy with "no redeeming qualities" ... so sort of sounds likely Malekith will be a pretty straightforward baddie, but that's okay. Sometimes a just plain nasty evil villain is okay too, we don't need to sympathize with all the bad guys! lol And hopefully the more complicated character development stuff in the film will be saved for Loki, Thor and other characters we're already invested in.

a few more shareworthy Loki quotes from Tom circa Avengers release...

HIDDLESTON: Well, I think Joss loves Loki because he loves complexity and the great thing about Loki is that there is almost no ceiling to his complexity as a character. He is a shape shifter, he’s intelligent, and he has strategic gifts but he also has reservoirs of pain. I think when you’ve got so much color and heroism in a film like The Avengers it needs to be balanced by a degree of pain, I think. Joss and I sat down for a long time at the end of Thor and he said, “Tell me everything about living inside of this man for 6 months. Tell me what makes him tick, what keeps him up at night. What are the nightmares of his soul?” We just shared all of our ideas from Norse mythology, the comics, and things that I developed with Kenneth Branagh. He loved it and he loved all of those ideas. He loved all of Loki’s damage and that somewhere at the bottom of Loki’s credentials as a bad guy he is a searching spirit. He is a damaged soul searching for the answers to something. Why he exists, what is his role in this universe, that he isn’t just somebody who is evil for the sake of being evil. He has complicated reasons for that.

You mentioned different goals for Loki. Without getting into specifics, what do you think are those goals and what do you think is his end goal? What is he getting out of this?

HIDDLESTON: I don’t want to say that it is disconnected from the Loki of Thor. So I think that in thought Loki has a deep need for approval and status. As in, Loki learning that he was Laufey’s bastard son, Loki learning that he had no place in Asgard. He felt unloved, abandoned, and alone. He was abandoned by Odin and that whole family. I think that is still connected to his motivations in The Avengers. I think like any completely delusional fascist in the course of human history, it comes from the lack of self-esteem. So he is just going about in the wrong ways of giving himself power. I mean, that is what all of the villains throughout the history of human race have ever really wanted – to accumulate power. So somehow in the delusion that power will give them self-respect, which it won’t, but Loki thinks that having power will earn him approval and self-respect, I think.

Will he be redeemed?

HIDDLESTON: I think so. Yeah. I mean, the thing about Loki is that he is still…I am trying to not spill into some sort of cackling, two-dimensional villain. I am trying to retain all of the complexity that I worked so hard on the first film. It would be such a shame to just play someone who is just all evil. So I think there is obviously at the bottom of him still redemption possible. I just think that it is better hidden. He is a lot harder spiritually and he is less vulnerable. He is more powerful and he is infinitely more dangerous and more self-possessed. He is a tough nut to crack.

http://collider.com/the-avengers-tom...8/#more-155958

[Darkness Falls]

has there been any word on loki having a new costume ? or is it the same one from avengers ?

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Note by the way Eccleston was quoted by someone on twitter a while back (from an event) as saying that he was playing a bad guy with "no redeeming qualities" ... so sort of sounds likely Malekith will be a pretty straightforward baddie, but that's okay. Sometimes a just plain nasty evil villain is okay too, we don't need to sympathize with all the bad guys! lol And hopefully the more complicated character development stuff in the film will be saved for Loki, Thor and other characters we're already invested in.

a few more shareworthy Loki quotes from Tom circa Avengers release...

yeah, and regarding malekith, that works best anyway. If he is appearing in one film, there is nothing wrong with him being flat out evil. Which is okay. Sometimes someone who is just cold evil for no reason is enjoyable. They lack the depth of character, but it still makes it fun.

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by Darkness Falls

has there been any word on loki having a new costume ? or is it the same one from avengers ?

I'm sure it'll have some tweaks too it, he's likely got some kind of prison outfit starting out, and then will have something similar to his old costumes but redesigned slightly as they've done with all the costumes.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

yeah, and regarding malekith, that works best anyway. If he is appearing in one film, there is nothing wrong with him being flat out evil. Which is okay. Sometimes someone who is just cold evil for no reason is enjoyable. They lack the depth of character, but it still makes it fun.

Yeah... The Joker for one, really good creepy nasty performance.

How many times did I watch Avengers btw before I realized Loki has 3 scepter variations? far too many times!
And in the Germany scene, what the hell happened to that second police car? There are two coming down the street blaring their alarms, Loki shoots at the first one, and the second one just disappears completely like... "screw those people! he's got a scepter!"

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Yup. But did all the 9 realms consent to being governed by Odin and the Asgardians? Probably not. And that's what may very well be the most exciting and interesting part of Thor 2, I hope.
.

I was going to say that Odin may well have stayed out of the affairs of the other realms. But you are right--this is a good opportunity to add an interesting layer to Thor2

Originally Posted by elizah72

YYes. I would agree. But certainly I don't see Thor as being able to do that, he is too much the focal point of Loki's rage, but perhaps Frigga, or Odin, or someone else could help him with that.

I guess I was reflexively assuming Our Hero would be the one to address this, too. But your comment about Thor being the focal point clarifies that conflict a bit for me. So I agree, Frigga or Odin.

Since Odin hands out punishment, it seems like Loki might be direction some rage his way too. So that suggests Frigga. I would like for Rene Russo to have a meatier role and help us connect more with Frigga.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by Aging Fangirl

Based on the timeline, I must concede that Loki's idea of Thor being his brother had also changed drastically by then, but even so, he didn't have to appear before Thor and tell him what he did. That was intentional cruelty.

I agree. Another twist of the knife: "Mother forbids [your return]."

I think Chris Hemsworth is especially strong in conveying things with his eyes, and Loki's appearance there leads to two highlights for him imo: the grief over his father's supposed death, obviously. But later also at Smith Motors, when Sif says, "Thor. . .your father still lives." There is this ice cold look that comes over his face as he comprehends Loki's lie that I enjoy. (So my tip is to watch for that when you next view the film.)

Originally Posted by Aging Fangirl

Here's a question I've wondered about (though it's probably already been discussed). Loki was well aware of how easy it would be to influence Thor. As clever as he was, it would have been so simple for him to rule from the sidelines. I wonder why he even bothered fiddling with the coronation at all? (And before you say it, yes I know it would have made for a much shorter movie. Just trying to follow his thought processes.)

(It has not been discussed, btw, thanks for the point)

It has been pointed out by others (maybe on another board, though), that Loki tends not to be a long-range planner. As a result, he sometimes finds himself in messes. So he may not have thought about how he could have set himself up as a power behind the throne.

I also agree with Elizah's point about how Thor at that point could be a bit of a loose cannon.

[American Maid]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

LOL.....you can't look back at that, and look at thor, and be like, what a ****ing hot headed idiot haha. Seriously, like..seriously lol

Originally Posted by elizah72

Of course I can. Because he was.

guess we've found another agree to disagree thingy.

Originally Posted by jaqua99

no no no, we are agreeing on that. It's just the way I worded it lol

What I meant was that, it was so laughable at how..horrible thor was, that it is completely natural, and expected to laugh at him for his wrecklessness.

we agree on that, I think it was hilarious, he's yelling at odin as if he somehow knows better. Okay Thor, keep running your mouth lol

I just want to point out that I think it is hi-lar-ious that you guys are disagreeing about how you are agreeing

[elizah72]

another issue with Loki letting Thor rule and pulling the strings/advising him, and I suspect that it will be expanded on in Thor 2, is that when Loki tries to do something or give advice to Thor early on in Thor there are several instances where he pretty much says, "shut up Loki'" and so I can certainly see where Loki is not feeling like his voice is heard or that his opinion is worth anything to Thor and possibly his whole family and "friends"

examples, the exchange with Heimdall before going to Jotunheim (the way he say "let me handle this" and then the look on Loki's face when brother says "Enough!")

"Know your place brother!" on Jotunheim when Loki tries to get Thor to back off for all their sakes.

I think there was one or two other little things which I am blanking on, moments when you can really see Loki in Thor's shadow. And again I do think will be addressed in Thor2 as one of the "major bones of their conflict" as Hemsworth put it. but the point is little brother is really trying to make good use of himself and big brother is like "shut up dumbass, let me handle this."

[elizah72]

Originally Posted by American Maid

I just want to point out that I think it is hi-lar-ious that you guys are disagreeing about how you are agreeing

Yes, indeed, and it may happen again sometime. So stay tuned.



I've never even seen Magic Mike. Don't particularly want to either.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by elizah72

Yes, indeed, and it may happen again sometime. So stay tuned.



I've never even seen Magic Mike. Don't particularly want to either.

I'm a strait guy...soooo..yeah lol