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Old 11-06-2012, 10:12 PM   #351
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Originally Posted by Fudgie View Post
Nope it's called wanting something better than what we got. Ya say ya never questioned any Batman movie so ya wouldn't know what I mean when I say that.


Nah. It's just fanboys not seeing what they personally wanted to see.

The general movie going public couldn't careless as much as fanboys.

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:15 PM   #352
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Most of the the time its just fans wanting what played out in their heads, it has nothing to do with higher standards. Its called nitpicking.


Exactly.

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:26 PM   #353
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After reading some of the stuff that I've come across online, it feels like the only way that people would ever label a Nolan Batman film, "The Perfect One" is if they combined all of these things into one epic film: (Keep in mind that I mean this in a way where if this was a PERFECT WORLD).

1.

Batman having as much exposure and things to do in the film like he had in "The Dark Knight", but with the heart of the film's story relying on Bruce's Character Arc, with it being as captivating as it was in the likes of "The Dark Knight Rises".

2.

The Main Villain being the Joker in all of his glory that Heath brought to the role.

3.

Compelling and Interesting Character like Catwoman/Selina Kyle (portrayed by Anne), that's also presented with having great chemistry with the protagonist of the story.

4.

Gotham City and its inhabitants having a voice in the story like they did, most notably (imho) in the ferry boat scene in "The Dark Knight"

5.

Spectacular Fight/Action Sequences, especially with how "The Dark Knight Rises" really had Nolan bringing his A Game when it came to the scale of the situation.
This sounds good to me

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Nah. It's just fanboys not seeing what they personally wanted to see
Isn't that what all movie criticism is? Not seeing what you wanted to see? Getting a movie that wasn't up to your standards. How else do you class movie criticism? A movie does something you didn't like so you criticize it.

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The general movie going public couldn't careless as much as fanboys.
When movies like Transformers 3 can make over a billion dollars, too, then this is clearly true.

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:54 PM   #354
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
After reading some of the stuff that I've come across online, it feels like the only way that people would ever label a Nolan Batman film, "The Perfect One" is if they combined all of these things into one epic film: (Keep in mind that I mean this in a way where if this was a PERFECT WORLD).

1.

Batman having as much exposure and things to do in the film like he had in "The Dark Knight", but with the heart of the film's story relying on Bruce's Character Arc, with it being as captivating as it was in the likes of "The Dark Knight Rises".

2.

The Main Villain being the Joker in all of his glory that Heath brought to the role.

3.

Compelling and Interesting Character like Catwoman/Selina Kyle (portrayed by Anne), that's also presented with having great chemistry with the protagonist of the story.

4.

Gotham City and its inhabitants having a voice in the story like they did, most notably (imho) in the ferry boat scene in "The Dark Knight"

5.

Spectacular Fight/Action Sequences, especially with how "The Dark Knight Rises" really had Nolan bringing his A Game when it came to the scale of the situation.
That just made me tingle in all the right places.

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Old 11-07-2012, 04:37 AM   #355
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Nah. It's just fanboys not seeing what they personally wanted to see.
Yeah well that's like your opinion man.

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The general movie going public couldn't careless as much as fanboys.
Yeah ya don't see them sending death threats to critics who gave it a bad review like the Nolan fanboys.

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Old 11-07-2012, 09:04 AM   #356
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Hell, especially to the latter, it wouldn't be so hard. They could have had some of the citizens rallying up to meet somewhere and discuss about their affairs, all arguing among themselves about what was going on, with some being in denial about what Bane revealed about Dent, only for Gordon to later appear and tell everyone the details regarding that fateful night. All it would have took is just one scene; hell cut the scene with Blake delivering the gallon of gasoline to the orphanage.
I especially like they didnt do anything like that. A bunch of people , is a bunch of people They dont mean anything in such a diverse society (if im remembering it right , in tdk i think they say Gotham is supposed to have like 30 million people) The stillness of the city to me is much more effective , and it carries a much broader concept. It's also a parallel to our main character's state.

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #357
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
After reading some of the stuff that I've come across online, it feels like the only way that people would ever label a Nolan Batman film, "The Perfect One" is if they combined all of these things into one epic film: (Keep in mind that I mean this in a way where if this was a PERFECT WORLD).

1.

Batman having as much exposure and things to do in the film like he had in "The Dark Knight", but with the heart of the film's story relying on Bruce's Character Arc, with it being as captivating as it was in the likes of "The Dark Knight Rises".

2.

The Main Villain being the Joker in all of his glory that Heath brought to the role.

3.

Compelling and Interesting Character like Catwoman/Selina Kyle (portrayed by Anne), that's also presented with having great chemistry with the protagonist of the story.

4.

Gotham City and its inhabitants having a voice in the story like they did, most notably (imho) in the ferry boat scene in "The Dark Knight"

5.

Spectacular Fight/Action Sequences, especially with how "The Dark Knight Rises" really had Nolan bringing his A Game when it came to the scale of the situation.
Could you really have a spectacular fight if the main villain is Joker, though? Even he said in TDK he couldn't beat Batman in a fist fight.

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:41 AM   #358
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

That shot of Batman on top of the City Hall steps in the snow has got to be one of the finest images of Batman ever comited to film IMO.

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:49 AM   #359
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

Nah, I think most of the iconic Batman shots were mainly in BB.

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Old 11-07-2012, 02:13 PM   #360
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Batman being on top of the bridge was WAY more iconic than the City Hall steps.

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Old 11-07-2012, 02:38 PM   #361
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Batman being on top of the bridge was WAY more iconic than the City Hall steps.
Both were great shots.

Another "Batman" shot I love from TDKR, is when he knocks the thug off the bike with the bat-pod, the guy is writhing in pain on the ground, and then Batman slowly appears from off the screen with the flapping Bat motif. Seeing that in IMAX was extremely epic.

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:07 PM   #362
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

I never said it was most iconic. Just saying it's an awesome shot of the Bat in all his furious glory. Epic setting, epic scowl.

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:34 PM   #363
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This sounds good to me



Isn't that what all movie criticism is? Not seeing what you wanted to see? Getting a movie that wasn't up to your standards. How else do you class movie criticism? A movie does something you didn't like so you criticize it.



When movies like Transformers 3 can make over a billion dollars, too, then this is clearly true.
There is a difference between not seeing what you wanted to see and there being ACTUAL issues with a film.

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Old 11-07-2012, 05:48 PM   #364
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Could you really have a spectacular fight if the main villain is Joker, though? Even he said in TDK he couldn't beat Batman in a fist fight.
Actually what he said was he didn't risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with Batman. Meaning he wasn't putting all his eggs in one basket. He had an ace in the hole, as any smart villain would.

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There is a difference between not seeing what you wanted to see and there being ACTUAL issues with a film.
They usually go hand in hand. Something being done in a bad way as opposed to a better way that you wanted to see. Which is a big case with TDKR. For example, the recent hot topic of discussion; doing a revolution story about Gotham's people and omitting Gotham's people from the story. That's not getting what you wanted to see and an issue many people have with the movie. People felt it hurt the story.

Simple as that.

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Old 11-07-2012, 06:10 PM   #365
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There is a difference between not seeing what you wanted to see and there being ACTUAL issues with a film.
True to that. You just can't please everyone. I'm pleased and have no issues with tdkr so really as long as yourself is pleased thats all that matters. Everyone else who has issues with it can whine all they want while I just relax and enjoy tdkr.

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Old 11-07-2012, 06:14 PM   #366
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Could you really have a spectacular fight if the main villain is Joker, though? Even he said in TDK he couldn't beat Batman in a fist fight.
That's why the J-Man can have himself lots of henchmen, big and strong ones, too. He doesn't need Bane to have a good fight scene. That's like saying the only batman stories where ya get to see Batman as a cool fighter is with Bane.

Batman's been whuppin ass long before than steroid looney came along.

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Batman being on top of the bridge was WAY more iconic than the City Hall steps.
Yup. That was the money shot.

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There is a difference between not seeing what you wanted to see and there being ACTUAL issues with a film.
Yup and the issues with the flick are seeing crap that shouldn't be in it. Psychic orphan Cop boy is my most hated one. What a load of bull that was.

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Old 11-07-2012, 06:54 PM   #367
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That's why the J-Man can have himself lots of henchmen, big and strong ones, too. He doesn't need Bane to have a good fight scene. That's like saying the only batman stories where ya get to see Batman as a cool fighter is with Bane.

Batman's been whuppin ass long before than steroid looney came along.



Yup. That was the money shot.



Yup and the issues with the flick are seeing crap that shouldn't be in it. Psychic orphan Cop boy is my most hated one. What a load of bull that was.
So how did you want the film? Did you want a different ending? No Robin? Or did you you want a rehash of what was done in the past. Nolan used a 70+ year old character and gave us something new but still respected what came before. It seems fans have a cut and paste attitude. "This happened in the comics so we'll cut that out and paste it exactly how it happened or looked in the comics". Its about the ideas that are presented. What does the idea of a robin represent to bruce/batman. Or when bane broke batmans back what effect would that have on bruce and gotham that hasnt got a batman to protect his city when it really needs him. They (nolan and crew) liked the ideas from the comics and used it in nolans films. Batman is more than just the comic books. But just because we read the comics dosent make us the ultimate fans. Just because fans love the original star wars films doesnt make them the ultimate fan. Batman just isnt for comic book fans he is also loved by the general public and movie going audience. Once you undestand what nolan did and what his goals for the film were. It should be fine. If not "oh well".

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:00 PM   #368
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Actually what he said was he didn't risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with Batman. Meaning he wasn't putting all his eggs in one basket. He had an ace in the hole, as any smart villain would.
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That's why the J-Man can have himself lots of henchmen, big and strong ones, too. He doesn't need Bane to have a good fight scene. That's like saying the only batman stories where ya get to see Batman as a cool fighter is with Bane.

Batman's been whuppin ass long before than steroid looney came along
But what I am referring to is, if you want a grand scale, then wouldn't we need a villain that would have an army behind him to make it grand than just some henchmen? Henchmen is no army.

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:06 PM   #369
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So how did you want the film? Did you want a different ending? No Robin?
I didn't give a crap that he was called Robin cos he wasn't any version of Robin I have ever seen. He was a Cop for the whole movie.

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Or did you you want a rehash of what was done in the past.
Got that already when the LOS came back to try and kill Gotham again using some naff doomsday device. An Al Ghul villain pretending to be someone they're not. Batman being chased by the Cops in a highway chase. Hello Batman Begins.

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Nolan used a 70+ year old character and gave us something new but still respected what came before.
Yeah I love the version of Batman from the comics who spends like a year crime fighting, then quits, then comes back, then quits, then comes back, then quits again by pretending to die when he didn't have to.

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It seems fans have a cut and paste attitude. "This happened in the comics so we'll cut that out and paste it exactly how it happened or looked in the comics".
Ehhh no. Ledger's Joker was a make up wearing guy who had scars instead of bleached skin but he is the most awesome version of Joker for me. Dent never got gooey eyes for Rachel Dawes and then went crazy after she died in the comics but Eckhart's Dent and Two Face was damn brill. Loved 'em both.

So yeah your cut and paste excuse is bull. I don't give a damn if they don't follow every little thing from the comics. Did ya see me complain we got a Catwoman we no claws, no whip and not even owning a damn pet cat? Hell no. Hathaway was aces without all of that.

Cut and paste my bum bum.

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Its about the ideas that are presented. What does the idea of a robin represent to bruce/batman. Or when bane broke batmans back what effect would that have on bruce and gotham that hasnt got a batman to protect his city when it really needs him. They (nolan and crew) liked the ideas from the comics and used it in nolans films.
I ain't talking about the ideas they took from the comics. Did ya ever see someone figure out Batman's identity in the comic just from a look on his face hahaha?

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Batman is more than just the comic books. But just because we read the comics dosent make us the ultimate fans.
Just because we read the comics doesn't make us less important either. If it wasn't for the Batman fans Batman wouldn't be popular enough to have made it to movies in the first place.

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Once you undestand what nolan did and what his goals for the film were. It should be fine. If not "oh well".
How can it be fine if ya don't agree with his choices and don't think they were good movie making?

Yeah I know I'm asking someone who told me he's never questioned any Batman movie so if Schumacher's vision was a-ok with ya then I am asking the wrong person this question. No offense pally.


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Old 11-07-2012, 07:07 PM   #370
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But what I am referring to is, if you want a grand scale, then wouldn't we need a villain that would have an army behind him to make it grand than just some henchmen? Henchmen is no army.
It would be if he had all the loonies of Arkham working for him. That's an army.

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:20 PM   #371
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It would be if he had all the loonies of Arkham working for him. That's an army.
That would also be a great film if it's based on Arkham Asylum as well. You can get your Joker and your Catwoman. Just replace villains that aren't necessary like Bane, Poison Ivy and Zsasz with Catwoman.

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:54 AM   #372
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Actually what he said was he didn't risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with Batman. Meaning he wasn't putting all his eggs in one basket. He had an ace in the hole, as any smart villain would.



They usually go hand in hand. Something being done in a bad way as opposed to a better way that you wanted to see. Which is a big case with TDKR. For example, the recent hot topic of discussion; doing a revolution story about Gotham's people and omitting Gotham's people from the story. That's not getting what you wanted to see and an issue many people have with the movie. People felt it hurt the story.

Simple as that.



Who is to say what some fanboys wanted to see in TDKR would have been done in a better way??

Only in your own mind....but not necessarily in reality.

Just some fanboys whining about not getting what they personally wanted to see in the film. That is all.

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Old 11-08-2012, 02:46 AM   #373
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Who is to say what some fanboys wanted to see in TDKR would have been done in a better way??

Only in your own mind....but not necessarily in reality.

Just some fanboys whining about not getting what they personally wanted to see in the film. That is all.
Thats right. They didnt get what THEY wanted. But were they ever going too ? No, I dont think so. Some fans have impossible needs that will never ever be met.

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Old 11-08-2012, 07:56 AM   #374
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Who is to say what some fanboys wanted to see in TDKR would have been done in a better way??
Let me put it to you this way; what makes you think it wouldn't? Write me out the reasons why what they've been saying is so bad it couldn't work. Try and include some of these alternative suggestions you've seen and why it could never work in the movie. Here let me list you a few I've seen;

- The "Catwoman killing Bane" issue. I'm fine with Catwoman coming in last minute to blow Bane away with the Bat-Pod. But it would have been satisfying seeing Batman stand over Bane's dying body as the light left his teary eyes. A few solemn seconds for such a fantastic villain. Not the abrupt death that we were dealt.

- Most likely the trouble with having two potential love interests is that I wanted the Bruce-Selina dynamic to develop more. Bale and Hathaway's Batman-Catwoman relationship was great and didn't really need much working on. However, their Bruce-Selina relationship needed some help. Perhaps it suffered because he discovered Selina was a thief very early on, but I felt like Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer got the Bruce-Selina dynamic down in Batman Returns better. The way Keaton's Bruce is mesmerized by Pfeiffer's Selina is cute and funny. Had Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne found some time to spend an evening with Selina, like taking her to dinner or something, I might've been satisfied. Of course, there's no room in this movie for such a scene. To put it simply, they needed time to mature their relationship, and Bruce Wayne coming to visit her for a quick "Hi, Bye" isn't enough


4. Lesser emphasis on the sub-cast

The role of Deputy Commissioner Peter Foley played by Matthew Modine was one that left me perplexed. Apart from a few lines here and there and his heroic stand towards the end, he failed to add anything more. If he was meant to be a representation of the people of Gotham and what they went through, it didn’t really work.

Similarly, there were a few scenes with Joseph Gordon-Levitt as John Blake which dragged a bit for my liking. Admittedly, some of them were very well thought out, especially his accidental shooting of the two suspects, but did we need as much of him to be sold on the idea of him becoming the next Robin? I am not so sure.

3. A peek into a Gotham torn apart

This is a place where I feel Nolan dropped the ball. With Bane having triumphed in taking over Gotham just over 90 minutes into the movie, this is where a slightly longer look into the reality of Gotham would have worked especially well.

While we did get to see adhoc courts in session, and clips of an anti-capitalist revolution on the streets we didn’t get to see enough. Moreover, Bruce Wayne keeps talking about having faith in the citizens of Gotham, we did not get to see that faith get justified in any way.

The last showdown between the cops and Bane’s army could have been taken up a notch if we saw the citizens of Gotham also taking part. Imagine people laying guerilla-style ambushes across the city and rebelling as a unit to the dictatorial rule. That would have given even more of a humane touch.

2. Talia al Ghul and the bomb

The appearance of Talia al Ghul in this movie was very poorly handled. The reveal right at the end completely ruined the character, especially as Marion Cotillard had only a few brief scenes before that. Maybe the time dedicated to the sub-cast as mentioned in Point 5, could have been used to build her up in some way.

Bane was the main menace throughout the film and then suddenly he is nothing more than a henchman – bodyguard. Bad move. Again comparing it to ‘The Dark Knight’ we didn’t have Joker in the final scene, it was Two-Face, but it didn’t seem out of place as enough time was given to establish his background.

As for the bomb, it wasn’t Nolan being his innovative best really. And if Talia al Ghul wanted to blow the city to shreds as she tries at the end, why not do it during the three months Batman is away with a broken back.

Maybe, a better device would have been to arm the bomb and say it was targeted on a random city in the USA. The President comes out and gives a warning to Gotham to sort itself out or else the country would be forced to take preventive action and then you’ve got a complete picture of ‘when the chips are down, these people will eat themselves’.

1. More Batman

For the final movie in the Batman trilogy, this one had a surprisingly less element of BATMAN. Wayne only dons the cape about 40 minutes into the film, and then in literally his third big scene he ends up with a broken back and is shipped out to the middle of nowhere.

With the necessity of Bane breaking Batman’s back in homage to the legendary comic books, it might have pleased fans more I suspect if we didn’t have to wait so long for Batman to return. Or even if we did, he should have been around a bit longer before disappearing.

The lack of Batman overcoming massive odds like when he flips Joker’s mega-truck, was also another factor why I felt I didn’t enjoy this movie as much. A sustained Batman appearance and more screen-time with the hood down and the hoarse voice would have been better.

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/...-rises-better/

I'm not asking you if you agree with them or not. I'm asking what is so awful about these that they just could not have worked?

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Only in your own mind....but not necessarily in reality.
What do you mean only in my own mind? What are you basing that on, something that's in your own mind?

Why don't you take off the rose tinted glasses for a moment, try and get out of the frame of mind that Nolan delivered the best possible movie he could have here, and present some semblance of a convincing argument that explains why what the fans wanted would not have been an improvement on what we got.

Time to put your money where your mouth is, instead of just resorting to the usual "they're just whining fans", "it's only in your mind" childish remarks. I mean it would be so easy to label people with your attitude as blind apologists, Nolan fanboys (You've got 'In Nolan We Trust!' in your signature) etc but we don't, because it's easier and better to tear down your arguments rather than try and tear down you personally with insults that have no basis.

Give it a try.

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Just some fanboys whining about not getting what they personally wanted to see in the film. That is all.
Of course. Every critic and detractor of this movie is just a whining fanboy who just didn't see what they wanted. It's not that TDKR didn't have any genuine flaws.

Is there any wonder why Nolan's fans have a reputation for being difficult, and I'm not talking about the death threats business.

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Originally Posted by batfreakforever View Post
Thats right. They didnt get what THEY wanted. But were they ever going too ? No, I dont think so. Some fans have impossible needs that will never ever be met.
Some fans are satisfied with anything they are given. Didn't I see you say you've never questioned the decisions of any of the Batman movies? That's fine for you. But forgive me if I don't put much stock in a perspective like that. You give the impression that you're a yes man. Happy with anything you're given regardless.

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Last edited by The Joker; 11-08-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:17 AM   #375
Brain Damage
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Default Re: The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
That shot of Batman on top of the City Hall steps in the snow has got to be one of the finest images of Batman ever comited to film IMO.
Did you see it in IMAX?

That shot, along with its mirror of Bane walking up the sewer steps towards a raging Batman, in IMAX made me go

I can't even begin to describe how much I love those two shots and everything about them. Rarely does Batman truly feel larger than life, in those shots, he did.

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