The Official Rate/Review Thread for TDKR (TAG SPOILERS!!!) - Part 3

[BlackFox]

Originally Posted by Figs

I understand some of the disappoint due to the lack of Batman but these movies have always been about Bruce Wayne. Without him there would be no Batman or Batman legend.

Hopefully the fans that didn't like Nolan's version will get what they want with the next version.

Yeah for those that didnt like Nolans efforts at least they get what they want now as he wont be doing any more, I just hope they get what they wanted instead.

[nogster]

My biggest issue with the film is regarding Bruce being an injured recluse for 8yrs. Hiding himself up in the mansion.

This just doesnt make sense at all when considering the character and the films before.

I understand Batman going into hiding in the context of the story and the events of TDK.

But..
Bruce wouldve and shouldve still been active in watching over his city.

He has an advanced computer in a working batcave.
It wouldve been so much better that he became a recluse in the cave.
Obsessively keeping watch on his city and Being similar to "oracle" and helping Gordon keep the streets clean as his silent helper.
You could still have Alfred imploring him to get out and find a life.
"Your'e not Batman anymore".
All this still wouldve worked and it wouldve been more true to the character.
He couldve, wouldve and shouldve still been in decent shape. although out of form. Still keep the battered body scene somewhat. showing the toll being Batman took on his body.

My problem with the film is it couldve been better if certain changes were made to the story and it was longer to further elaborate 2nd and 3rd acts.

Nolan bit off a bit more than he could chew in this film.
It was good. It couldve been great.

[true316]

I saw this opening weekend and I didn't share my thoughts.

I thought it was such an impressive effort. I thought the cast was terrific. Bale might have been at his best as Batman/Bruce Wayne. Hathaway was a great Catwoman. And Bane? I REALLY liked this version. He really gave the impression of someone who was a real threat physically to Batman.

I wouldn't say this tops The Dark Knight, but I can't imagine what it would take for ANY superhero film to do that. So no shame there. I can't decide if I like Batman Begins or TDKR more. BB feels like such a classic style Batman story but TDKR is SO epic.

Nolan deserves special appreciation for what he accomplished. This was definitely a satisfying conclusion to the best superhero trilogy ever imo.

[fanboiii]

I need to see it at least two more times, but I really enjoyed my first viewing.

I'm actually surprised how much people liked it because I was skeptical how widely it appealed to everyone. I'm especially seeing a lot of positive reviews from women and not because of Catwoman alone. It's seems how the story connects to the trilogy, the intensity of grand scenes, the imax cinematography, and the emotional depth is what people are really responding to while Bane and Catwoman surpassed expectations.

Another thing I find interesting is that some are saying it actually felt more comicbook-y and Batman was really Batman. Reaction seems dominantly positive which is very satisfying.

[breyfogle_rules]

Can anyone tell me if Chris from batman-news reviewed tdkr yet?

I forgot his hype name so I can't search it. :-(

Chrissomething, right? Help.

[breyfogle_rules]

Here's my quick review btw. Get ready to be mad at me or walk me through Nolan's reasoning. I can learn to like things retroactively.

I LOVED:

Bane's characterization until the twist at the end.

Certain shots of Selina (like when she's on the window cleaner terrace interrogating what's his name). Anne came the closest to comic Selina, albeit flawed.

The way it looked. Awesome cinematography.

My PROBLEMS:

Loved Bane until the twist at the end revealed he was just a dumb thug all along and he cried. Whatever.

I was mad that bats walked with a cane and was all old and tired and easily taken out by Selina tripping him. He then goes toe to toe with Bane and loses horribly. He does some pushups in jail, comes back and wins. Didn't buy it. Mostly because I was hoping for....

Yes. A Lazarus Pit. I know you'll all jump on me and say it's not workable in Nolan's world but he introduced supernatural elements at the end of The Prestige and it worked great. He could have done it here and really elevated the film IN ADDITION TO making bats a fully replenished man at the peak of his game. It would have even undone the eight years in hiding thing since it would have reset him back to a young man.

Robin no. Batman is Batman because of all the unique, badass **** he went through. Not just anybody can be Batman. I call ********. And Blake has no money either. Made me mad.

Selina can't punch. Not buying her stick arms.

Alfred's exposition on Bane. "Sometimes, a man rises..." Who talks like that? Stop beginning sentences with "Sometimes..." You did it in TDK when talking about Joker. Use different anecdotes buddy. You're sounding like a histrionic old bag.

The exposition on clean slate. She's all "Where is it" and the guys all "You mean clean slate? The blah blah program that bah blah we made and blah blah on and on?"


Anyway, sorry to ***** about it. I saw it a second time and rather liked it, but the first time I was crestfallen. I admit I was expecting certain things and probably should have had a more open mind. But whatever. I'm a lifelong batman fan and was disappointed. Can't wait for the next take on bats. I give it a 5.5 out of ten.

[Frodo]

After seeing the film twice , I can admit that I admire the film alot more then I did the first time . While there are aspects I don't like or am iffy on, I at least can respect Nolan's attempt to get an idea or concept across even if its not as successful as it could have been. I gave it about a B- when I first saw it , but now I give it a B . So for me it went from 81% to about 85%

Likes

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The set pieces: From the plane scene ,stock exchange chase, The Bat, The Breaking of the Bat scene, The cutting off and sacking of Gotham, to Bane and Batman's final fight , Nolan doesn't miss a note and they are some of the most memorable sequences of all the Batman films from 89 to 12.

The performances by all involved: Bale gives his best performance as Bruce Wayne imo, and you really care about him in a way the other actors whov'e played the part have never achieved. Hathaway steals the show as Catwoman, Tom Hardy is great as Bane, and JGL is

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

by far the best live action Robin we've ever had. The scenes between Wayne and Blake are classic Batman and Robin.

The Concepts : The 99% vs the 1%,

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Turning Gotham into an occupied failed state dictatorship,

Drawing on aspects of Knightfall, Knightquest, No Man's Land, and The Dark Knight Returns .

The Humor: Unfortunately the film has too little levity imo which can make the film seem overly depressing ,but the moments is does have are great.

Dislikes

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The Whole LOS angle. While I can understand Nolan's desire to bring the trilogy full circle , I felt Bane was such a compelling villan that he could have worked just as well, if not better , as his entity , with his own ideology, and his own followers. Instead of carrying out someone else's agenda, imo it would have been more powerful for Bane to actually be a revolutionary who believed in toppling what he viewed as corrupt states and viewed Batman as a symbol of corruption.

Odviously,

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

the LOS angle includes Talia and her whole scheme. Again, while I can respect what Nolan wanted to do with her character, ultimately she wasn't in it enough or written strong enough for her character to really make a strong impression on Bruce or on the story.

The Maguffin:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

While a nuke is realistically the only way the President of the U.S.A. wouldn't whip the living S*** out of Bane and his minions in time for his next golf game, it's such a cliche that kinda screams Die Hard and Michael Bay , however , i cut Nolan slack because it raises the stakes enough to truely threaten the existence of Gotham.

Un-needed characters: While I like Foley, Dagget, and Holly, I would have preferred if their characters we're ditched in favor of more time with Gordon, Fox, Selina and Alfred

Certain Character Motivations:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I'm still not fond of what they did with Alfred because imo it is inconsistent with the Alfred of BB and TDK. While I think it needs to be done in order to accomplish what Nolan is trying to get across, I really don't like the idea of Alfred just leaving even if Bruce said goodbye. However, its worth it for the great scene between Bruce and Alfred.

The Pit:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

While I like Bane's speech to Bruce in the prison , I really don't like the whole sequence. Again , I get what Nolan's trying to get across but it truely bores me and it goes on way too long. I think if that underground prison had been built in Gotham and the rich were thrown in there , it would have made things alot tighter , and would have shown how Gotham had really gone down hill. Its not a strech to think that with all the secret work Bane had been doing underground that he could have constructed a prison similar to his home.

Plot points spoken about then never fully fleshed out on screen:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The 99% vs 1% is an example of this. One of the problems I had was that Selina voices this view but once the revolution begins its seems as if the criminals are the ones uprising as opposed to the poor uprising.

John Blake as

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Batman : While I like Bruce has a happy ending the idea of John Blake taking on the mantle is hard for me to swallow. That said, its at the very end so we don't have to see it

[Rincewind]

I saw it again a few days ago and I liked it much better than the first time.

My biggest problem - the Talia Twist - works much better once you know it's coming because there are tiny touches here and there that forshadow it. It still kinda robs both Bane and Talia of their thunder (Bane is in Talia's shadow and Talia is in Ra's' which sort of prevents me from taking them both seriously as villains) but it's as well executed as it can be. Even with the Twist, I seriously think that Bane might be my favorite villain in the whole trilogy.

The film has its flaws and there are some silly/contrived moments if you start overthinking it but that goes for BB and TDK too. As a whole, it's a very entertaining movie that improves on rewatches.

I like it and that's it.

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by Mandalore464

While I have no problem with your opinion that a Lazarus Pit could have worked in the film (actually, I even agree. I wouldn't have minded it at all), I really would have had a problem with Bruce using it.

An important part of Batman's character is that he only relies on his wits and physical conditioning to get the job done. I wouldn't like seeing him use magic to overcome his own limitations. I'm not a comics guy at all, but I think they at least got that right. Batman doesn't cheat.

Batman embodies the power of the human mind. Get obsessed about doing something, and you'll make it happen. All you need is prep time

In the comics he has to resort to magic and mysticism to heal his back after Bane breaks him emotionally and physically.

[BatLobsterRises]

"There are many forms of immortality, Bruce"

"The Pit" was more or less Nolan's version of the Lazarus Pit. You could even go so far as to say that the pit is a source of Ra's immortality/legacy in that Talia was born down there.

I thought the Pit/prison was a pretty mystical place myself, despite its lack of a bubbly green pool.

[Bruce_Begins]

Wrong Thread.

[Mandalore464]

Edit : Deleted

[Mr.T]

Finally, was able to see it this weekend. Not as good as TDK or BB, but a good movie overall to close out the trilogy. I was satisfied when I walked out.

I loved Bane's character, even though he did lose a little of his "oomph" after the Talia twist at the end. Like many others, I wasn't overly fond of the Talia LOS mastermind thing. Also, I was hoping to see a scene or two that gave us more insight on Bane's mask.

Bale was great, Leavitt was a stealth "Robin", Catwoman worked well (to my surprise). It was a good movie.

[Léo Ho Tep]

Originally Posted by nogster

My biggest issue with the film is regarding Bruce being an injured recluse for 8yrs. Hiding himself up in the mansion.

This just doesnt make sense at all when considering the character and the films before.

I understand Batman going into hiding in the context of the story and the events of TDK.

But..
Bruce wouldve and shouldve still been active in watching over his city.

He has an advanced computer in a working batcave.
It wouldve been so much better that he became a recluse in the cave.
Obsessively keeping watch on his city and Being similar to "oracle" and helping Gordon keep the streets clean as his silent helper.
You could still have Alfred imploring him to get out and find a life.
"Your'e not Batman anymore".
All this still wouldve worked and it wouldve been more true to the character.
He couldve, wouldve and shouldve still been in decent shape. although out of form. Still keep the battered body scene somewhat. showing the toll being Batman took on his body.

My problem with the film is it couldve been better if certain changes were made to the story and it was longer to further elaborate 2nd and 3rd acts.

Nolan bit off a bit more than he could chew in this film.
It was good. It couldve been great.

What would he have to watch over? People forgetting to bring back books in the library? There was nothing to watch over.

[Doc Holliday]

Originally Posted by breyfogle_rules

I saw it a second time and rather liked it, but the first time I was crestfallen. I admit I was expecting certain things and probably should have had a more open mind. But whatever.

This. The second time, I enjoyed it much more, but the first time I felt let down, but I'm not sure why.

Overall, I feel like much of the quality of the writing in the movie may have been slightly compromised in the third act. Bane--the man who broke Batman--is reduced to a bulky guy with a funny mask who was essentially a puppet and dies anti-climactically, Talia is introduced and then quickly dispatched, and John Blake (probably) becomes another Batman.

The Blake thing is what gets me though. Think about the contrast between Batman and Harvey Dent in TDK: Bruce wants to give up the mantle of the Bat and let a more legitimate hero in Harvey take over. He's Gotham's "White Knight." A hero with a face is more important. But that all gets ruined when The Joker breaks Dent and drives him crazy. Couldn't John Blake fit into that "White Knight" role just as well? He is a good cop who is seeking to do right by Gotham, and sure he gets frustrated by being on the force (although I'm not sure why) but that doesn't mean he shouldn't continue.

I also thought it was a little bogus that Blake instantly knew Bruce Wayne was Batman as a little kid. Nobody is supposed to figure that out. It pisses me off enough that basically every villain figures it out. (Credit where it's due: Ra's already knew Bruce and his fear of bats--not a big leap; Bane in the comics is a genius, so I'll assume the same is true in TDKR, not to mention his LOS connections.)

Seriously though, I did enjoy the movie. It's just not as complete as TDK. And I need to see it once or twice more. My overall rating currently stands at a 7.7/10.

[the_monk]

Originally Posted by breyfogle_rules

I was mad that bats walked with a cane and was all old and tired and easily taken out by Selina tripping him.

I'm pretty sure he could have fought back but chose instead to play up the broken man angle to preserve his image of a recluse.

Originally Posted by breyfogle_rules

He then goes toe to toe with Bane and loses horribly. He does some pushups in jail, comes back and wins. Didn't buy it.

That's overly simplistic. If you remember, the pushups are not what helped him make the jump, because he fails twice. If you're complaining that there is no supernatural element in The Pit, I think you're missing the symbolism of Bruce's successful jump. He makes it unassisted because his spirit wants to make the jump. Just as in real life, you can choose to view this rehabilitation from a supernatural angle if you wish to. Bane put him into The Pit and subjected him to the forces that fueled his desire to escape. That makes a Lazarus Pit for me.

[BatLobsterRises]

Originally Posted by Léo Ho Tep

What would he have to watch over? People forgetting to bring back books in the library? There was nothing to watch over.

Yup. Also, the fact that Alfred says "you haven't been down here for a long time" seems to imply that Bruce did in fact spend some time keeping an eye on things after TDK. After all, the mansion/new cave wasn't even built at the end of TDK, so sometime after that we can assume he spent at least some time in the cave keeping a vigilant eye on the state of Gotham. Eventually it becomes clear that he's accomplished his goal of stamping out organized crime. He can't move on though, and is just waiting and waiting for the next "extreme" threat to arise, and eventually it does with Bane.

[The Guard]

I like how he built a retractable landing pad for The Bat even though he wasn't Batman for eight years and apparently didn't know about The Bat.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by The Guard

I like how he built a retractable landing pad for The Bat even though he wasn't Batman for eight years and apparently didn't know about The Bat.

Yeah, but that could have been used for The Tumbler or Bat-pod. Park it up there, so nobody knows how to get it down....but it did feel a bit too convenient.

[The Guard]

He'd have to hope the things didn't slip off the slippery wet concrete and off the side.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by The Guard

He'd have to hope the things didn't slip off the slippery wet concrete and off the side.

Just like he'd have to hope Michael Cain didn't quit his butlering job to get back into acting.

[BlackFox]

[QUOTE=breyfogle_rules;24082919]
Robin no. Batman is Batman because of all the unique, badass **** he went through. Not just anybody can be Batman. I call ********. And Blake has no money either. Made me mad.
[QUOTE]

I was of the strong belief that Nolan is poitning out this his time with Batman is done and is time for someone else to take over now, you kind of have to think of Bruce is Nolan at the end of it.

Yeah ok I know its Bruce you see retiring an no longer being Batman, but I saw that as Nolan retiring to allow another to take up the mantle of Batman.

Others will see it for what it is, but fair enough, thats the beauty of film/art you can interpret things in different ways, some good, some bad.

[BatLobsterRises]

[QUOTE=BlackFox;24101807]

Originally Posted by breyfogle_rules

I was of the strong belief that Nolan is poitning out this his time with Batman is done and is time for someone else to take over now, you kind of have to think of Bruce is Nolan at the end of it.

Yeah ok I know its Bruce you see retiring an no longer being Batman, but I saw that as Nolan retiring to allow another to take up the mantle of Batman.

Others will see it for what it is, but fair enough, thats the beauty of film/art you can interpret things in different ways, some good, some bad.

That's one of the meanings I took from it too. This Bat-universe ends but there will eventually be another Batman rising to take its spot. What's true for Gotham is true for us: there will always be a Batman.

[BlackFox]

[QUOTE=BatLobsterRises;24103261]

Originally Posted by BlackFox

That's one of the meanings I took from it too. This Bat-universe ends but there will eventually be another Batman rising to take its spot. What's true for Gotham is true for us: there will always be a Batman.

Yeah, glad I wasn't completely alone in that thought line, I'm not saying its right, its just what I felt Nolan was trying to get across, it may well be nothing like that of course, depending on future films/reboots.